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You're not funny.Westy said:
Remember that time I installed an external bearing BB without facing?
- Thread starter BurlyShirley
- Start date
Yeah, I have been reduced to discussing third order effects.
If facing really mattered that much, why don't we hear about headsets failing left and right?
Think it might be theshimano bearings. (reference post #26)
Think it might be theshimano bearings. (reference post #26)
Two things: I'm glad I bought XT cranks for this build since they have aluminum spacers; and plastics in this application if they're made correctly out of the right kind of plastic etc, can be a lot better than paint. For instance, a glass filled olefin or PEEK will not have 'runs drips and errors'. It's all happening on a fairly micro level but the cleaner and straighter/parallel you can make those surfaces, the less headaches one will have on install, bearing life and removal.loco said:
I think we've seen how it can be pretty subjective so in your case, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Took me closer to a minute on this build but good to know. Someone needs to tell Shimano that so they can change their install instructions.loco said:
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All mfgs have the same rec on the docs.Qman said:
BurlyShirley said:Well, that was a bad idea.
Bearings are chirping already and Ive maybe done 10 rides on the things. :mumble:
So I guess that settles that argument once and for all. It IS necessary. Going to get some raceface bearings this time around and have the BB faced, for sure.
Face and chase is my mantra.
I face the BB and HT always, and most of the time I'll go ahead and chase the BB threads if they seem like they need it or not. They almost always do.
Qman said:
My welding teacher explained that no one ever really sees bare aluminum - that's how fast it oxidizes. All aluminum has a layer of aluminum oxide, a "skin" if you will. Anodizing is a deeper and harder layer of this. Anytime you go to face or chase an aluminum frame you are cutting into the oxide skin. Ano finishing means you need to cut a little more.
Facing a frame (head tube and BB) ensures that the bearing surfaces run as close to parrallel as possible. This is beneficial whether your running a $100 part or a $10 part. It doesn't matter if it's Shimano or King or Sunrace or Fisher Price.
If you don't prep the frame correctly you are less of a man.
Just everyone is clear, it is more than that. Yes you are making a "perfectly" flat surface on each side of the shell but (just as important) you are also making sure that both sides of cup are "perfectly" lined up and parallel. The idea is to make sure that each cup is sitting flush but also that each are correctly aligned with the other so that when you shove an axle in there you're not putting some weird side load or twist on the bearings. It's for headsets too.loco said:
It seems to me that facing is more needed with external bearings than with ISIS or square taper cartridge BBs. In a cartridge BB, the actual bearings will always be aligned because they are contained in the axle/cartridge assembly and the whole thing sits in a separate cup. I have a hard time believing that slightly less than perfect alignment will have much impact on those. With external bearings, however, good alignment (and therefore facing) seems more needed. Right now I still don't do it unless I find a thread issue, but maybe I will start.
But early failures of the new style BBs can also easily be caused by overtightening the nut that side loads the non-drive crank arm.
Edit: Dang, H8R beat me to some of this...
Go back and read genius. All I did was ask what frame you were referring to, which was a completely valid question and not condescending at all. Condescending started with "is the Bullit not a high end frame?".loco said:
word up.H8R said:
My welding teacher explained that no one ever really sees bare aluminum - that's how fast it oxidizes. All aluminum has a layer of aluminum oxide, a "skin" if you will. Anodizing is a deeper and harder layer of this. Anytime you go to face or chase an aluminum frame you are cutting into the oxide skin. Ano finishing means you need to cut a little more.
Facing a frame (head tube and BB) ensures that the bearing surfaces run as close to parrallel as possible. This is beneficial whether your running a $100 part or a $10 part. It doesn't matter if it's Shimano or King or Sunrace or Fisher Price.
If you don't prep the frame correctly you are less of a man.
I would think that the fraction of a second that an end mill cuts into a block of aluminum could be considered seeing bare aluminum but yes, it does oxidize fast.
We could actually see it happening like a foggy mirror in a steamy bathroom when we were polishing this:
Applying automotive wax immediately after buffing off the Flitz left it good enough to appear unoxidized for a while.
Qman said:We could actually see it happening like a foggy mirror in a steamy bathroom when we were polishing this:
.
WTF is that? Is it a store display?
Welding aluminum is crazy, you can see the skin form directly behind the weld bead. If you haven't prepped it correctly to remove the oxidide layer, (sanding, chemical prep, etc) it just f*cks with you.
Bare aluminum has a melting point of 1220 degrees - aluminum oxide has a melting point of 3632 degrees. Tough stuff.
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My question about the Bullit was a valid question as well. I wasn't trying to insinuate anything by asking. I guess part of our issue lies within interpretation.Echo said:
I just tried to solve my problem with you, but it won't let me.
Sorry Echo is a moderator/admin and you are not allowed to ignore him or her.
I personally got tired of you being a dick to me a long time ago. Apparently I offended you by posting stupid things, so you have felt the need to berate me. Whatever. Why don't you actually grow up like we agreed to do in PMs a while back. I kind of thought I was keeping up to my end of the deal. Feel free to add yourself to my ignore list if you can.
The funny thing is I've gone out of my way to NOT be a dick to you. Other than this thread, I'd be interested in you showing where I even so much as acknowledged your existence, except for a week ago when you misinterpreted something I said. If "keeping my end of the deal" means I'm not allowed to post my opinions in bike related threads, or disagree with your point of view, or ask you to clarify something, then you're in for a lot of disappointment. And you still have yet to acknowledge that YOU were the one with the condescending tone in this thread. I'm telling mom.loco said:
<thinking to self: How can I exercebate this situation?>
Probably not necessary. Now that I know loco will hate me and whine about me no matter what I say or do, I'm going to stop letting his asinine comments and inaccurate statements slide like I have been for the past 6 months or so. This will (whatever that word was) naturally.DRB said:
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Echo said:
I am telling you - I did not mean to be condescending about the frame. Sorry. I don't recall even disagreeing, or noticing if you were here or not, until you posted the very tasteless thread about the deaf woman. If that is what you refer to, yes - I thought that was poor form. I guess I have been doing ok, even without the ignore function. What you are missing - I was asking questions, not to argue, but to learn, which I did. You act like I was saying they didn't know what they were saying. I was asking for clarification. I'm done. It's not worth discussing. I have witty comments to make in other threads.
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I see you masturbating the situation, actually.DRB said:
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Now my comments are inaccurate??? How so???Echo said:
So that thread's deletion wasn't good enough for you?loco said:
sorry to but in on all this but, you bug the cra out of me lately loco. you have NO sense of humor. its the internet. chill out
Yawn. Can we talk about paint drying or something else more fascinating than another "What did I do wrong?" thread?loco said:
loco no sense of humor? interestinglovebunny said:
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Yes - it served its purpose. (thanks echo - my keys haven't been the same since I bashed them off while screaming in German)Echo said:
OG - thanks for making this about me.
TJ - what the heck are you talking about???
I guess the big thing is, I get bashed for non-bike content, so when I actually had bike related questions and comments, I specifically was engaged. This confuses me.
Actually there shouldn't be an apostrophe there.loco said:
Loco has a sense of humor, it is just that he in menopausal right now and a little sensitive. I am sure he will now be outraged in defense of menopausal women everywhere.DRB said:
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It's a foreign concept to me.DRB said:
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Thanks - I'll look forward to you correcting me. I'll relish in the fact that people will bitch on you for correcting people's ignorance, and maybe I can take a break.Echo said:
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I do think it's unfair that they have to wear those irritating (I can only assume they are irritating) pads. It is an outrage. I would rather you be killed in the face by a wolverine than for them to have to endure such annoyance.Westy said:
hell i dunno. i just thought it would be fun to join the loco bashing bandwagon:love:loco said:
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Good - I didn't want to have to pay Orven and Heather $100 to kick you in the nuts.lovebunny said:
w'haye'r?Echo said:
its not as fun as everyone makes it out to be.
It's more fun if he hates you. He knows that if he gives you any crap, Shyrmp won't be his friend, so he has to play nice.lovebunny said:its not as fun as everyone makes it out to be.
You can still pay me $100 to kick him in the nuts.loco said:
There goes that theory.Echo said:
gimme 50 ill do it myselfloco said:
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I'm going to make you my favorite person. :love:Echo said: