[$tinkle]

(i already searched RM & no one has touched on this yet)

So, with tax time coming soon, i was analysing where funds would get redistributed (i know it actually pays down unfunded mandates, & other earmarked programs, but let's leave this out). Naturally, i projected what groups i could definitely include & exclude, but am undecided as to the Native Americans. Cases can be made that we've already provided for them, and that gets met with "look how destitute & illiterate they are". Stronger cases can be made how we've screwed over most (if not all) of the tribes w/ our broken treaties.

In 1988, reagan signed a bill paying $20K to each japanese interned from wwii. Why haven't significant inroads been made to restore the many nations of native americans? Or, have efforts been made, but they (in our govt's judgment) squandered it all?

I don't believe in throwing money at a problem in hopes of it going away. What viable solutions have been offered over the hundreds of years?

please offer to fill gaps in any assumptions i have made or implied.

 

[LordOpie]

Didn't we give them a whole mess of beads back then? Think of all the boobies they could see at Mardi Gras with 'em (if they kept 'em)! :devil:

I don't know about indians anywhere else, but the ones I've seen in FL and AZ are doing just fine... and I'm not just talking about the ones living on reservations. Drive thru some small cities in central Florida and you'll see it's a fairly typical town. Sure, they're not rich, but they've got a Burger King.

 

[laura]

Originally posted by LordOpie
Sure, they're not rich, but they've got a Burger King.

ah yes the sure signs of an affluent township. throw in a liquor store and some place to gamble and you've got a frickin' metropolis.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by laura
ah yes the sure signs of an affluent township. throw in a liquor store and some place to gamble and you've got a frickin' metropolis.

Ouch! Now it is sounding more like my hometown of Lynnwood WA. "The 'Hood" baby! Good for nothing 10 square mile apartment complex..............

Rhino

PS: We do have a bowling alley/Skating rink http://www.bowlandskate.com/

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by laura
ah yes the sure signs of an affluent township. throw in a liquor store and some place to gamble and you've got a frickin' metropolis.

Indians live there, so that's a given! :devil:

man, I'm gonna catch hell when Skookum logs in

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Before I get hammered for Ancedotal evidence or something I will throw this disclaimer...

It is my understanding (since I live in a city that Borders the Seminole Indian reservation in FL) that each tribal member/family does receive a stipend from the Federal Government. I believe it is indirect and that the payments go to the tribe who then distribute the money. The last # I recall is that each Seminole Indian household receives $42,000 per year from the Tribe. That includes profits that are redistributed from Tribal owned ventures (IE GAMBLING).

 

[$tinkle]

i like the idea of casinos on reservations for 2 reasons:

• they aren't near me (nor are the spun-off criminal activities)
• someone else will pay down the "debt", thusly absolving me of my white guilt

these reasons are selfish, and bluntly honest. It's also shortsighted i realize, but one problem at a time, eh?

 

[laura]

i dont really know much about what we did to the indigenous populations who lived here before the europeans came because my only history has been from a text book whcih omits things to make the european quest look noble. i have however started some supllemental reading on the history of our relations with native americans. from what i have read so far, all i can say is that it is a truley tragic time in our history that is not disscussed nearly enough. a whole nation of people where wiped out by disease before they even had a chance to fight for what was theirs. no reperations or casinos on reservations or burger kings could ever pay anyone back for that.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by laura
i dont really know much about what we did to the indigenous populations who lived here before the europeans came because my only history has been from a text book whcih omits things to make the european quest look noble. i have however started some supllemental reading on the history of our relations with native americans. from what i have read so far, all i can say is that it is a truley tragic time in our history that is not disscussed nearly enough. a whole nation of people where wiped out by disease before they even had a chance to fight for what was theirs. no reperations or casinos on reservations or burger kings could ever pay anyone back for that.

yeah, no offense, but all sorts of groups of people have been crushed by all sorts of other groups of people. Native Americans, African-Americans, whomever just need to get on with their lives and stop complaining about the past.

If I ever heard of a Jewish group wanting reparations for WWII, I'd tell 'em the same thing. And that was "recent"!

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by laura
....a whole nation of people where wiped out by disease before they even had a chance to fight for what was theirs. no reperations or casinos on reservations or burger kings could ever pay anyone back for that.

So we shouldn't even try to? *easy, easy, Ack! Rhino getting smacked in the back of the head by everyone FYI - It was a crack meant to make only myself smile *

Burger King? No good. How about a Denny's? *agian, Oh!, I give! Stop hitting me!*

Laura,

I agree that the history is abismal at times. Question is when is a debt repaid or atleast everyone can start fresh and anew(is that even a word?) ? Is it a debt that should be repaid? If it can't ever in many peopels eyes.

 

[ummbikes]

Originally posted by Mtb_Rob_FL
Before I get hammered for Ancedotal evidence or something I will throw this disclaimer...

Aww Rob, damn you, I have coffee all over my monitor now.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Originally posted by laura
no reperations or casinos on reservations or burger kings could ever pay anyone back for that.

Ok so why did ya bring it up?


Geez, didn't you say you were getting your PhD?

 

[laura]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Burger King? No good. How about a Denny's? *agian, Oh!, I give! Stop hitting me!*

i was thinking crackerbarrel, where even the veggies have meat in em'.

 

[laura]

Originally posted by Mtb_Rob_FL
Ok so why did ya bring it up?


Geez, didn't you say you were getting your PhD?

i was not the first to bring up the reperations, burger king or casinos. read much?

 

[ohio]

Despite the mass genocide (some accidental... some purposeful), and centuries of mistreatment I'm opposed to reparations for a couple of reasons:

1) Far too much time has passed to alot blame to any existing taxpayers, who for the most part do not descend from the perpetrators

2) Perpetuation of victim mentality. This is a weak ass argument that makes no sense, but makes white people feel better about themselves. Okay scratch that one.

2 (for real this time)) It wouldn't do most reservations any good. Unstructured funds just pouring in one lump sum into pockets of those that don't have the resources, scope, or organization to make best use of them is a waste. I do believe money should be spent to improve the conditions and future potential of native americans on reservations... but reparations will not accomplish any of that significantly, IMO.

By the way, has anyone seen the "Native American Casino" South Park?

 

[laura]

Originally posted by LordOpie
yeah, no offense, but all sorts of groups of people have been crushed by all sorts of other groups of people. Native Americans, African-Americans, whomever just need to get on with their lives and stop complaining about the past.

i agree that the buck up and move on way of looking at things is a great thing to do. but i am not a native american or african american or jew. and i have no place to tell anyone to get over anything. thats like me bitching about the prejudices i face as a women everyday and you as a man telling me to get over it. move on, look at all the acomplishments women have made. i would say **** you. its not your place.

 

[laura]

Originally posted by ohio
1) Far too much time has passed to alot blame to any existing taxpayers, who for the most part do not descend from the perpetrators

2 (for real this time)) It wouldn't do most reservations any good. Unstructured funds just pouring in one lump sum into pockets of those that don't have the resources, scope, or organization to make best use of them is a waste. I do believe money should be spent to improve the conditions and future potential of native americans on reservations... but reparations will not accomplish any of that significantly, IMO.

By the way, has anyone seen the "Native American Casino" South Park?

these are the two main reasons i am opposed to them as well. reperations are like welfare. its bribe money to keep people from complaining about there situations. just enough to say that something is being done wihtout anything really happening.


oh yeah, and that was a classic episode.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by laura
i agree that the buck up and move on way of looking at things is a great thing to do. but i am not a native american or african american or jew. and i have no place to tell anyone to get over anything. thats like me bitching about the prejudices i face as a women everyday and you as a man telling me to get over it. move on, look at all the acomplishments women have made. i would say **** you. its not your place.

nah, i disagree. You don't have to have experienced it to have some knowledge or give a reasonable opinion. I give you permission to tell people to unwad their panties and move on.

and there's a difference between any prejudices you may suffer today as a woman and, say, the sufferage movement. One is history, the other is current. You don't deserve squat for what women suffered in the past, but you do deserve a fair and equal opportunity today.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by laura
i was thinking crackerbarrel, where even the veggies have meat in em'.

I've never been to a CrackerBarrel........is it a dinner chain on teh east coast

<-----One sheltered Rhino

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by laura
i was not the first to bring up the reperations, burger king or casinos. read much?

Um, you did mention liquor stores and "some place to gamble" first

But I get where you are coming from with the generalizations and such.

 

[laura]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
I've never been to a CrackerBarrel........is it a dinner chain on teh east coast

<-----One sheltered Rhino

its home cooking complete with a gift shop attached. you'll have to come out to memphis some time. they will chicken fry anything your little heart desires.

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
I've never been to a CrackerBarrel........is it a dinner chain on teh east coast

yup.

a few years back they got sued cuz they made all the black people work in the back with whitey working the front. OMG! The name even tells people what to expect when they walk in. Oh, sure, i'm making a funny, but seriously, everyone in the south knew it.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by laura
its home cooking complete with a gift shop attached. you'll have to come out to memphis some time. they will chicken fry anything your little heart desires.

Looks better than Denny's.

Daily Special at CrackerBarrel

 

[Skookum]

A broad sweeping reperation doesn't make sense. There has been thru the years lawsuits that have been settled, maybe a few are pending, and many will never see court on several issues. The problem is there are seperate bands and seperate tribes all over this country. So you can't have a broad general reperation that would apply to all tribes.
What would be the benefit of a reperation anyways? Cash to make some people feel better? Just curious....
Now the issue that i see would cost the government money is recognizing some tribes. You see in order for a tribe to be a soveriegn nation it has to be recognized by the government. Case in point the Duwamish tribe is one interesting story out of many many injustices, but is still very current. The Duwamish tribe's most popular chief was Cheif Sealth. otherwise known as Chief Seattle. His tribes thru treaty, they were basically promised land in West Seattle, plus all kinds of rights. Well to this day they haven't been recognized, and i know that they never will, especially with the current administration. There are many people who walk around who have native blood but are not recognized this way.
A common misconception is that tribes lean on the government to make money. It's simply not true. Each tribe tries to be self-sufficient, but in nearly all cases were put on reservations where the natural resources were not in excess. Don't believe me well look around, that's why you don't see too many reservations, and Indians anywhere near popular city metropolis. And if you see a Casino off tribal land it was purchased by the tribe on behalf of tribal members.
So tell me if you say the government is giving money away to Indians, i'd like to know, because i want some. I dunno my taxes pay to provide for somebody as well, providing for YOU i suppose IF you get on welfare, claim bankruptcy, or drive on roads. Only one of which i have ever done.
No i think by law there has to be a legal war for reperations, which i don't think ever occured, because the government never recognized the tribes they were at war at, so out of all the battles there was no legal war. I really don't know how it all pans out legally though....

But i don't know if you're in the mood to square it all up, i'd say give all the tribes Hawaii, North California, Oregon, Washington, British Columbia, Alaska, Antarctica just for kicks, Guam, Puerto Rico, Pepsico, Dupont, Ebay, Salma Hyak, and Utah so we can oppress the Mormons and i can ride Moab all the time, then we'll call it square. Anyone offering beads can keep them up their pooper where they belong.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by Skookum
Anyone offering beads can keep them up their pooper where they belong.

LMAO

Hahahaha

Not that I would know anything about that......

 

[RhinofromWA]

Hey Skookum,

I went to the northwest tip of the peninsula last spring/summer. Neah Bay? I can't remember the name for sure. I paid for a "visitor pass" to come into town and drive a washed out road to a long winding partially elevated walkway (cool if no one has done it) to make my way down to the cliffs at the most western point of the lower 48 states. I forget how much the pass was...$5 $10 or so. I thought it odd but didn't gripe much. Hopefully my money went into a pot to repair the only road in and out of that town (like 15 miles) that slid into the ocean. Pretty area and they had a nice community center but the rest of the town was looking rough. I got some nasty looks when I was there....I must have been a silly scared white boy. There was an interesting disclaimer on the back of the "pass" too if I remember right.

On the flip side the reservation in Marysville has some NICE houses on there. I know they have a casino there(huge new one).... money seems to be flowing through some people in Marysville. I haven't gambled at the casino but I did have beer there and watch a band at the old one.

Anyway I am babbling..... My mother and father grew up in MN and there are reservations all over the place (near to where they lived.)...casinos too (now, not back then). My mom remembers many instances of white people being attacked and scapled by reservation renegades even back in the 50's. My dad has a story of a local family who strung up a white boy who was dating his indian daughter. (My dad likes to tell that one 'cuase he was dating a Res. Girl also) It isn't hard fo me to beleive there is still much resentment towards "the white man" of wich I had little, to absolutely nothing, to do with.

 

[Skookum]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Hey Skookum,

I went to the northwest tip of the peninsula last spring/summer. Neah Bay? I can't remember the name for sure. I paid for a "visitor pass" to come into town and drive a washed out road to a long winding partially elevated walkway (cool if no one has done it) to make my way down to the cliffs at the most western point of the lower 48 states. I forget how much the pass was...$5 $10 or so. I thought it odd but didn't gripe much. Hopefully my money went into a pot to repair the only road in and out of that town (like 15 miles) that slid into the ocean. Pretty area and they had a nice community center but the rest of the town was looking rough. I got some nasty looks when I was there....I must have been a silly scared white boy. There was an interesting disclaimer on the back of the "pass" too if I remember right.

Never been there.... don't let them coastals scare you. Even though the Coastals like to hunt whale, i don't think your a big enough guy for em to consider good huntin. j/k

Originally posted by RhinofromWA

On the flip side the reservation in Marysville has some NICE houses on there. I know they have a casino there(huge new one).... money seems to be flowing through some people in Marysville. I haven't gambled at the casino but I did have beer there and watch a band at the old one.

Yah those guys are doing it right, them and the Muckleshoots are lucky because they are real close
(to Seattle). I can't stand our casino at Lake Chelan it's a total dump compared to theirs.

Originally posted by RhinofromWA

Anyway I am babbling..... My mother and father grew up in MN and there are reservations all over the place (near to where they lived.)...casinos too (now, not back then). My mom remembers many instances of white people being attacked and scapled by reservation renegades even back in the 50's. My dad has a story of a local family who strung up a white boy who was dating his indian daughter. (My dad likes to tell that one 'cuase he was dating a Res. Girl also) It isn't hard fo me to beleive there is still much resentment towards "the white man" of wich I had little, to absolutely nothing, to do with.

Well i hope i can ride with ya someday man, so you can share stories of our mutual rides so you can have good stories. Instead of these horror stories you've been told. Cuz y'know how stories are.......

 

[bigkonarider]

Originally posted by laura
i dont really know much about what we did to the indigenous populations who lived here before the europeans came because my only history has been from a text book whcih omits things to make the european quest look noble. i have however started some supllemental reading on the history of our relations with native americans. from what i have read so far, all i can say is that it is a truley tragic time in our history that is not disscussed nearly enough. a whole nation of people where wiped out by disease before they even had a chance to fight for what was theirs. no reperations or casinos on reservations or burger kings could ever pay anyone back for that.

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT !!!!!!!! If i were living back then i would definately have been one of the most brutal killer's of white man moving in on our land.
.I dislike our government somewhat!
Here, people are still multiplying like rabbits overpopulating our once pristine planet...
OH, & then the BLACKs"oh African American's" have it so bad...Get over it brotha. Indians were here first you Black person-you don't see any NAACP of the Indians crying all the time....Hey, i just have vent here..This land is turning into a giant air polluted city.....Furthermore- can we just BUILD A FRIGGING CEMENT WALL ON THE MEXICAN BORDER TO KEP THEM OUT -OR AT "LEAST" MAKE THEM PAY $$$$ TO ENTER OUR COUNTERY...ENOUGH IS ENOUGH...WE ARE PITIFAL FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO KEEP ALIENS "OUT" OF AMERICA.....THAT'S WHY TERRORISTS CAN EASILY GET IN HERE..OH & BY THE WAY" WE ARE IN FOR A RUDE AWAKENING ONE DAY AGAIN BY THE BASTARD FANATICS.... :devil:

 

[llkoolkeg]

Originally posted by bigkonarider
YOU GOT THAT RIGHT !!!!!!!! If i were living back then i would definately have been one of the most brutal killer's of white man moving in on our land.
.I dislike our government somewhat!
Here, people are still multiplying like rabbits overpopulating our once pristine planet...
OH, & then the BLACKs"oh African American's" have it so bad...Get over it brotha. Indians were here first you Black person-you don't see any NAACP of the Indians crying all the time....Hey, i just have vent here..This land is turning into a giant air polluted city.....Furthermore- can we just BUILD A FRIGGING CEMENT WALL ON THE MEXICAN BORDER TO KEP THEM OUT -OR AT "LEAST" MAKE THEM PAY $$$$ TO ENTER OUR COUNTERY...ENOUGH IS ENOUGH...WE ARE PITIFAL FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO KEEP ALIENS "OUT" OF AMERICA.....THAT'S WHY TERRORISTS CAN EASILY GET IN HERE..OH & BY THE WAY" WE ARE IN FOR A RUDE AWAKENING ONE DAY AGAIN BY THE BASTARD FANATICS.... :devil:

...Hmmm...lemme ...no, I was right.

 

[fluff]

WTF was that???

 

[LordOpie]

Originally posted by fluff
WTF was that???

lol

yeah, seems like a sh:tstorm came twisting thru, eh?

 

[$tinkle]

Originally posted by fluff
WTF was that???

a cameo by michael savage

 

[N8 v2.0]

My sister (adopted) is native American (pueblo) and she scalps* white men for cash on a daily basis.













*She is the slot manager at her reservation casino



Her fellow pueblo members get a nice hefty check from Uncle Sam every year plus some big bucks from gaming revenue.

 

[brenth]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Hey Skookum,

I went to the northwest tip of the peninsula last spring/summer. Neah Bay? I can't remember the name for sure. I paid for a "visitor pass" to come into town and drive a washed out road to a long winding partially elevated walkway (cool if no one has done it) to make my way down to the cliffs at the most western point of the lower 48 states. I forget how much the pass was...$5 $10 or so. I thought it odd but didn't gripe much. Hopefully my money went into a pot to repair the only road in and out of that town (like 15 miles) that slid into the ocean. Pretty area and they had a nice community center but the rest of the town was looking rough. I got some nasty looks when I was there....I must have been a silly scared white boy. There was an interesting disclaimer on the back of the "pass" too if I remember right.

A couple of years ago, I went on my honeymoon to the seattle area ( san juans/ olympic area), and I was planning the trip out there and I saw that place and I wanted to check it out, so We were out there, and at the lodge at lake creasent, the guy behind the desk told use not to go out there. It was right when they werestarting to do the whale hunts again, and the tensions were running high I guess. It kinda freaked my wife out so we ended up not going. O well. we just drove down the coast instead.

not that that story had anything to do with the thread.

 

[DRB]

Originally posted by fluff
WTF was that???

The word troll comes to mind. Then the word dumba$$ comes to mind. Then a bunch more words come to mind..... Then at last the word newbie comes to mind.

 

[DRB]

Oh by the way I like a good curry.



American indians? Oh I see.



Nevermind.