Replacing the Chameleon

Tap · Apr 27, 2004

i think you should get a 5 Spot

Leethal · Apr 27, 2004

A Heckler sounds like what you need but make sure you get it with a coil over.

Mr Tiles · Apr 27, 2004

I rode a chameleon for a couple of years and retired it for a steel frame. I like the steel a lot better because it does seem to a little easier on the knees and such. In other words, a steel hardtail may be just what you need IMO.

Lizard0fthetrai · Apr 27, 2004

turner rail?

nicklin · Apr 27, 2004

Originally posted by Lizard0fthetrai
turner rail?

uh..the guy wants to ride long rides too....have you ever tries to ride a rail for longer climbs and fast rocky descents?

I say you need a bullit or a Enduro SX for a lighter ride,.

Kornphlake · Apr 27, 2004

Maybe before doing anything else you should find out why your knee is hurting. Did you start cocking one foot in on the pedals, are you riding more and farther with your seat low, did you start riding with a heavier camelback, are your crank arm or pedal spindle bent? I notice that I get knee pain if I do longer urban rides with the seat down low and I'm bouncing off stuff all the way but if I hike the seat up and only lower it a couple times during the ride to hit a stunt then bump it up again I'm okay. Going full suspension won't help you get better leg extension with the seat down, and it won't correct some bad habit that you've just recently learned like your foot position on the pedal. Maybe you could demo a bike for a weekend and decide if full suspension will really help or not. If you've just go the itch to upgrade then by all means do it but it's not a guarantee that your knees will stop hurting.

MMcG · Apr 27, 2004

A Balfa Belair would do the trick for you - 4.5" of travel with an air shock - aluminum front triangle with a good solid trail bike head tube angle - can accept a 5" single crown fork - cromoly rear triangle that accepts up to a 2.35 tire easily and possibly even a 2.4" if you wanted to go that wide in the rear.

Check the Buy and Sell forum and have a look at Jozz's frame that's for sale - it's a great frame and a great deal.

MikeD · Apr 27, 2004

A steel frame, esp. one overbuilt to take abuse, won't make a significant differance IMHO. Get a full-suss.

MD

roee · Apr 27, 2004

I've been wondering about the same thing myself. I'd really (REALLY) like to get the Rail but unfortunately it has interrupted seat tube, which means you can't move the seat alot. Same for the Enduro SX.

What does that leave? Probably more trail oriented bikes like the 5Spot and friends.

math2014 · Apr 27, 2004

I second the SX idea,

It is true that i got issues with seatpost adjustments...and this is a big compromise for me...

Solutions?

Two seatposts....one for XC/trails and one for tough stuff...

or

Titec Knock Scoper post (telescopic...DH strenght)

or

compromise with seat height.

roee · Apr 27, 2004

I'd like neither of these solutions - you're too limited with all of them. That's fine on a DH machine, or XC machine, or even a trail bike, but not something as versatile as the SX! It really misses the point IMHO.

Carrying two seatposts is obviously not practical (not to mention the cost, especially if you get two saddles too), telescopics aren't as tough as regular posts, and not moving the seat is just wrong :think:

My 99' FSR was my first, and last, interrupted seat tube bike.

bomberz1qr20 · Apr 27, 2004

Originally posted by bagtagley

My knees thank you.

As a Chameleon die-hard, I'd have to ask what size tire you have? I know squeezing most anything bigger than a 2.35 in there is difficult.

Maybe bigger tires/less pressure?

I have a SS Chameleon with 180mm steel cranks and some Mofo DH 2.35 tires, and a 5" Z1. I used to get some knee aches when it was built as a XC bike with 2.1's, but the fatter tires really help now.

How's you seat height when you're climbing? Lot's of riders drop the saddle for techy stuff and then don't bring it up again for climbing - hell on the knees. (I'm guilty of this often)

Just some suggestions.

Jesus · Apr 27, 2004

Originally posted by bagtagley
I should mention that I already have a Bullit that I use for bigger stuff and DH. The Bullit will climb, but it's combersome, so the Chameleon is a nice compromise.

I rode the Bullit all weekend and didn't have really any stiffness in my knees. I mostly ride in clipless pedals that I switch between bikes, so I don't think foot position is the problem.

I'm not real into the idea of an interrupted seat tube, I like to be able to adjust.

What kinda build on the Bullit?

Cause you could just lighten it up a bunch,and your problems would be solved.

A SC fork, light wheelset and tires, carbon, etc...

punkassean · Apr 27, 2004

Originally posted by roee
I'd like neither of these solutions - you're too limited with all of them. That's fine on a DH machine, or XC machine, or even a trail bike, but not something as versatile as the SX! It really misses the point IMHO.

Carrying two seatposts is obviously not practical (not to mention the cost, especially if you get two saddles too), telescopics aren't as tough as regular posts, and not moving the seat is just wrong

My 99' FSR was my first, and last, interrupted seat tube bike.

The newest generation of Enduro bikes allow for a lot of seat adjustment. But the SX has a forged rib preventing major adjustments. Why not a regular enduro? They are lighter and have more travel than the SX, albeit not as beefy.

Anders · Apr 27, 2004

Originally posted by bomberz1qr20 As a Chameleon die-hard, I'd have to ask what size tire you have? I know squeezing most anything bigger than a 2.35 in there is difficult

i slid t6he wheel to the farthest position and i fit a 2.6 gazzi jr in there

Castle · Apr 27, 2004

i'll give a vote on the heckler!

spincrazy · Apr 28, 2004

Ok, it's a bike I own and love, but I think it fits here. BTW, I love chameleons.

I'm going to say Titus Loco Moto. Look into it. Nice geometry, excellent, very tunable, low maintence suspension design. Adjustable travel enhanced when matched with an adjustable travel fork. high enough bottom bracket to give good clearance, yet not overly high as to detriment center of gravity issues when downhilling. Stiff front and rear end, boxed chainstays, plenty of standover height and a very acceptable top tube lenghth. Also, lightest in it's travel class (or that's what they used to say, not sure if it's true today or not). Handmade in the US with beautiful welds and it will cost about the same as the inferior, burlier looking and of lower finish quality than the Heckler...

Supa8 · Apr 28, 2004

I second or third the Heckler. Its my all around bike ( XC as well if you call it that ). Depending on the fork you use is what I am finding changes the ride. I have a Z150 and a Fox RLC 125.

I find the Heckler to be the ultimate "play bike" Its more freeride than pure Trail bike IMO. The Heckler replaced my Bullit that was my all around bike. 2nd best bike ( so far ) I have owned after my DHR.

punkassean · Apr 28, 2004

Does the Heckler use a 6.5x1.5" shock? if not what size does it use?

spincrazy · Apr 28, 2004

Originally posted by punkassean
Does the Heckler use a 6.5x1.5" shock? if not what size does it use?

7.875 x 2

(overrated)

The Titus is adjustable from 3-4.75".....

jncarpenter · Apr 28, 2004

...........one that hasn't been mentioned yet is the Turner Burner. Right now Supergo is blowing them out @ $950 & it is a sweet frame. Uber stiff rear with the bushing/ zerk setup & 3.6" travel. As far as durability, it is approved for everything the 5Spot is......Check it

jncarpenter · Apr 28, 2004

Originally posted by bagtagley
....jncarpenter, Burner's an interesting thought. You think it'd take a beating?...

....give Turner a call, they'd be happy to answer any inquiries. My 5 Spot has certainly proven more burly than expected!

spincrazy · Apr 29, 2004

hey, that's my bike!

I run it with a 5" Sherman Firefly and it's perfect for the downhill and normal messing around. I believe they list the geo with a 4" fork, but I'm not certain anymore. Call them, Alan is full of good info. Thing is, with an adjustable fork (3-5") and the adjustable rear end, it goes from full on XC like bike to nearly DH geometry. I'm currently running the bars a little higher than I was with the Psylo SL I used to run on there - I think the Sherman itself is a bit taller too, so.... If I'm trying to get on something really high or do a really steep, rocky climb, I'll throw the fork down to 4". It FLOATS through rock gardens and is so flickable it's stupid. With the Swinger 4-way, it accelerates like a bat outta hell out of corners and doesn't flew the rear end like a lot of 5" bikes.

I was just saying last Sunday that I'm glad I don't like any other bike as much as I like mine. That's a nice, satisfying feeling. I've had a Loco for the past 2-3 years and I'm still on the same bearings and it's as stiff as when I bought it.

You might see if you can find a pre 2003 one for cheap and then send the frame in for a 2004 front triangle for $175 and bearing overhaul if needed.

Originally posted by bagtagley
spincrazy, like this one

I don't suppose you know what travel fork they used on the LocoMoto when getting the HT/ST angles (bit steeper than I'd like, but 5" fork might fix that)? Nice bikes, my buddy just got a Swithblade...gorgeous frame.

jncarpenter, Burner's an interesting thought. You think it'd take a beating?

MikeD · Apr 30, 2004

IMHO, as a former owner, the Loco gets a little too slack and high (ie, awkward) with most 5" forks. (Z1 130mm in my case.) A 3-4" fork is perfect....but a 04 Sherman, with 90-130 adjustability, might be the ticket.

However, I did crack my first Loco frame on what I'd consider hard trailriding (top tube crack at the gusset). Still, it's a great trail frame. Great geometry and suspension.

For any riding that includes deliberate dropping or air time, tho, I'd look elsewhere. It can handle a rough ride, but it's not made to be worked over on a regular basis. Maybe the quasi-moto might fit that better, considering the Titus line only.

MD

roee · Apr 30, 2004

I wonder if the Burner can withstand urban assault with a 230lbs pig on top :think:

I might be interested..

samich457 · Apr 30, 2004

Azonic propulsion might not be too bad.

Tame Ape · Apr 30, 2004

Originally posted by spincrazy
Ok, it's a bike I own and love, but I think it fits here. BTW, I love chameleons.

I'm going to say Titus Loco Moto. Look into it. Nice geometry, excellent, very tunable, low maintence suspension design. Adjustable travel enhanced when matched with an adjustable travel fork. high enough bottom bracket to give good clearance, yet not overly high as to detriment center of gravity issues when downhilling. Stiff front and rear end, boxed chainstays, plenty of standover height and a very acceptable top tube lenghth. Also, lightest in it's travel class (or that's what they used to say, not sure if it's true today or not). Handmade in the US with beautiful welds and it will cost about the same as the inferior, burlier looking and of lower finish quality than the Heckler...

Puhhhhleeezze man! Quite bagging on my bike!

The Loco and Heckler are both good. The Loco tends towards the lighter side of the playground and the Heckler towards the heavier. Either way most people swear by either one.
Incidently, Hecklers are made overseas now. Also, the paint hasn't been the best in my experience (I have a transblue heckler). Also, when Spincrazy got his new front triangle back, 'dark blue' is really a dark purple and therefore slower. And gayer. Definetly gayer. But thats what the East Village is all about

:thumb:

roee · Apr 30, 2004

Originally posted by samich457
Azonic propulsion might not be too bad.

IMHO and from past experience, everything Azonic makes is quite bad

(either they buy cheap low quality parts and put their name on it - like their seats - or they make cheap low quality parts) - too many broken frames, flexy bars, bent seats, etc.

I'm done with Azonic.

samich457 · Apr 30, 2004

Originally posted by roee
IMHO and from past experience, everything Azonic makes is quite bad (either they buy cheap low quality parts and put their name on it - like their seats - or they make cheap low quality parts) - too many broken frames, flexy bars, bent seats, etc.

I'm done with Azonic.

Never have rode Azonic frame and bars. I was trying to think of a 3-4 inch frame. Thanks for the info though cause I was actually looking at one.

roee · Apr 30, 2004

Originally posted by samich457
Never have rode Azonic frame and bars. I was trying to think of a 3-4 inch frame. Thanks for the info though cause I was actually looking at one.

Well, I have seen a broken azonic frame, and I bent a saddle which is identical to the Azonic Love Seat - the Azonic is just a rebadge of it, so I've been told. Not too high of a quality. I got their bar (WF, methinks) on my bike, and it's not the stiffest, but to be honest I didn't compare it directly with any other bar of the same width.

I've probably been influenced by the internet rumor mill, check it more deeply, I might not know what I'm talking about

(Edited to say I'm probably an ass and this should have been the original message, not the "don't buy Azonic" babbling
And then edited again to say the broken frame is actually an Evolution and not a DS1, and to add this http://www.hcor.net/postt16810.html which I just found entirely by coincidence)

anarchyUK · Apr 30, 2004

orange Sub 5
http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/2004bikes/bikes.php?bike=five
http://www.orangebikes.co.uk/2004bikes/bikes.php?bike=patriot

BMXman · May 1, 2004

take a look

www.nicolai.net

Replacing the Chameleon

Monkey

Chimp

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

I'm a beer snob

Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Ride till you puke!

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists

Chimp

wannabe curb dropper

Chimp

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

I love to climb

Monkey

Monkey

Turbo Monkey

I love to climb

Monkey

Monkey

Monkey

I love to climb

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists

Chimp

Monkey

BUY HOPE!!!!!!!

Chimp

Monkey

Chimp

Monkey

I wish I was Canadian