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Republican debate 1/10/08

RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin
That's spin of a terribly cynical sort. If you have to resort to that, you've not only lost the moral high ground, but you've bulldozed it flat and put up a "I hate spooks, heebs, and beans!" theme park where it used to be.
Wrong. Not even close.

Did you miss this part?

If someone with small ideologies happens to contribute money to Ron, thinking he can influence Ron in any way, he’s wasted his money
Here is yet another dissertation on the matter.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
Respecting someone is different from awarding them a gold medal (which costs money). I respect that he voted no on this issue.
you realize this "logic" can be extended to vilifying him for every "yay" vote, ja?
That's right, Paul's campaign took resources away from a white supremacist and you think that is a bad thing?
never has "in for a penny, in for a pound" rang so true.
Obviously, that is your choice. Which war monger do you support anyhow?
at present, none.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
Respecting someone is different from awarding them a gold medal (which costs money). I respect that he voted no on this issue.
I just pooped a little bit. Not enough to warrant an early retreat from work, but enough to not wear these undies out tonight.
 

Plummit

Monkey
Mar 12, 2002
233
0
Ah these old chestnuts:
from roll call 92:, " BILL TITLE: To Authorize the President to Award a Gold Medal on Behalf of the Congress to Rosa Parks in Recognition of Her Contribution to the Nation", RP was the only MoC to vote "nay", which does indeed give us insight into the content of RP's character. i wonder why he chose to quote himself on the same day he voted against honoring her?

and need i bring up his willful acceptance of a $500 contribution from don black (of stormfront)? certainly now would be the time to distance his campaign from such surly people, but chooses not to. he will soon see how many of us will further distance ourselves from him. i quick perusal of stormfront's image directory reveals their obsession with RP, as well as frequent & unusually unguarded access to RP at multiple events.

i cannot endorse (and certainly not vote for) someone who so consistently & unrepentantly lacks sound judgment
You state that his judgment is unsound... Here you assume that just because some idiot white supremacist gave RP money, RP is going to be influenced and vote for that person's issues... Really? Maybe you're just used to that sort of thing with the other candidates, although, even they might be hard pressed to sell their political influence or votes for a measly 500 bucks.

On the Rosa parks thing, you go on to assume that b/c he voted against giving her $30,000 of taxpayer money in the form of a gold medal RP is a: racist and b: doesn't respect Rosa Parks. I guess his statements of respect in congress, the media, and in public must be meaningless b/c he didn't want to give her any of your cash. How much have you given Rosa Parks? Are you a racist?

Standard logical fallacies on your part. It's telling that you focus on tangential shock value media stories about the candidates rather than the more substantive, if mundane, issues of the economy, the war, civil rights, government spending, states rights, etc.... i.e. The events and issues that affect all of us and will for generations to come.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,215
16
Blindly running into cactus
i dig huckabee. agree with his religious views or not (and most on this forum don't) at least he's got the decencly and fortitude to stand for something w/out wavering. i like his response to the evolution question, he sums up the real issue pretty well.

 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
You state that his judgment is unsound... Here you assume that just because some idiot white supremacist gave RP money, RP is going to be influenced and vote for that person's issues... Really? Maybe you're just used to that sort of thing with the other candidates, although, even they might be hard pressed to sell their political influence or votes for a measly 500 bucks.
taking the example of Norman Hsu, the democrats seem to have taken the moral high ground when it comes to campaign contribution. and when hillary returns $32K from her $100M warchest, this too is peanuts. it's not about the amount - it's about principles, which seem to be on the cheap in the paul camp.
On the Rosa parks thing, you go on to assume that b/c he voted against giving her $30,000 of taxpayer money in the form of a gold medal RP is a: racist and b: doesn't respect Rosa Parks. I guess his statements of respect in congress, the media, and in public must be meaningless b/c he didn't want to give her any of your cash. How much have you given Rosa Parks? Are you a racist?
reductio ad absurdum much?
Standard logical fallacies on your part. It's telling that you focus on tangential shock value media stories about the candidates rather than the more substantive, if mundane, issues of the economy, the war, civil rights, government spending, states rights, etc.... i.e. The events and issues that affect all of us and will for generations to come.
if we are to choose who would best tackles these sticky topics, are we to look past one's character? why not just choose guiliani if this is your measure?
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
On the Rosa parks thing, you go on to assume that b/c he voted against giving her $30,000 of taxpayer money in the form of a gold medal
Ah, how fiscally responsible. I mean who would possibly want to use pennies of the federal budget to acknowledge one of the most important American figures of the 20th century?

Let's have a look at what Ron Paul did support spending money on:
Secure Fence Act of 2006 - $1.2 Billion for 700 miles of fence. I could see how a useless fence is 400,000 times more important than recognizing black people as equal human beings to whites.
Rules of the House of Representatives - a bill specifically designed to grandfather Tom Delay's ethics violations into non-violations. Hard to put a dollar amount to that one, but approving congressional corruption ain't cheap.
Recognizing the NOAA - I'm all for this one, too, but it's interesting that he's willing to "spend the money to" recognize the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration but not Rosa Parks.
To Designate the Facility of the United States Postal Service Located at 701 Loyola Avenue in New Orleans, Louisiana, As the “Louisiana Armed Service Veterans Post Office." - think it cost more than $30k to redo the signage and stationary of a local post office branch that should have been paid for by local funds and doesn't actually accomplish anything functional?
http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/p000583/votes/
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
29,736
3,110
awarding $30k to rosa parks is NOT "recognizing black people as equal human beings to whites". i don't agree with the fence deal btw.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
awarding $30k to rosa parks is NOT "recognizing black people as equal human beings to whites".
If awarding someone a medal is the same as "giving them $30k" then I don't think I'm stretching too far.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
true, it's recognizing white guilt.
Right, why would we want to celebrate an act of civil disobedience that helped ignite one of the more important and positive movements in American History? Is it British guilt that would cause us to honor Paul Revere?
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,509
2,803
Right, why would we want to celebrate an act of civil disobedience that helped ignite one of the more important and positive movements in American History?
Maybe because it's a token (no pun intended) gesture that adds nothing to her legacy? But I do award you a Gold star for your bleeding heart.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,185
17
TN
Maybe because it's a token (no pun intended) gesture that adds nothing to her legacy? But I do award you a Gold star for your bleeding heart.
Yeah, no kidding. That b*tch was just too lazy to move her ass like the law told her to, and she gets a medal. WTF? I need a medal. I sit on my ass all the time.
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,847
0
Orange County, CA
i like his response to the evolution question, he sums up the real issue pretty well.

Actually, he willfully or ignorantly has a fundamental misunderstanding of the theory of evolution.

And he nicely shows us that he'd be as bat**** crazy a leader as the guy in Iran...and that is something he does sum up pretty well.
 

ohio

The Fresno Kid
Nov 26, 2001
6,638
4
SF, CA
i like his response to the evolution question, he sums up the real issue pretty well.

"if you want to believe you descended from primates, we'll see how far that gets ya."

uhhh, wow. yeah, that's the guy I want vetoing my education bills.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,185
17
TN
Jesus christ... how does this happen to us time and time again? I mean this dude is seriously considered by some as a reasonable candidate to be the president of the US, and he's a f*cking retard who is bat sh*t crazy. And then we get (911)Giulianni(911) and "slick" Romney and a Baptist Preacher who wants to quarantine Aids patients... IS THIS REALLY THE BEST WE HAVE TO OFFER?
It's depressing, and I like how all the "open minded" ones, the 911 doubters are all behind this guy, a total isolationist. Im sure he'd be better at helping Aids kids in africa...right. And now he doesnt think men share a common ancestor with primates. And he had his name on a white supremacist newsletter for a number of years.
Unbelievable.
You Paulites are real pieces of work.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,509
2,803
Ms Parks has been pretty well honored by our country I would say:

Washington Prepares To Pay Rosa Parks Rare Tribute at Capitol
By Petula Dvorak and Hamil R. Harris
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, October 29, 2005; Page A01

The nation's capital began preparations yesterday for a historic weekend, when civil rights matriarch Rosa Parks will become one of only 30 Americans ever honored with the pomp and ritual of a Capitol Rotunda viewing.


That MoH was paid for with a life. His family got a medal and a folded flag.
 

RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin
It's depressing, and I like how all the "open minded" ones, the 911 doubters are all behind this guy, a total isolationist. Im sure he'd be better at helping Aids kids in africa...right. And now he doesnt think men share a common ancestor with primates. And he had his name on a white supremacist newsletter for a number of years.
Unbelievable.
You Paulites are real pieces of work.
What the funk are you talking about? Are you talking about Paul or Huckabee? If you are talking about Paul he did not publish a white supremacist newsletter and he is not an isolationist. Where the funk do you get this carp? Please tell me you are capable of processing more than just the sound bites they play on FAUX nEWS.
 

RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin
How's this for a refutation?

I am a Mexican-American, I worked for Ron Paul in the 1990’s, and I Know that Ron Paul is No Racist!
I have seen nothing, in all my interactions with Ron Paul, to ever suggest to me that he himself is racist. To the contrary, I have every reason to know he is not. And the same goes for his supposed hatred of gays. That is also total hogwash. Ron Paul does not care what someone is. He sees us all as individuals with God given rights. If you value liberty and the Constitution, then you are Ron Paul’s brother or sister in liberty, whatever your color, creed, or sexual preference.
Let's not forget the important thing. Ron Paul has hot supporters. Join a local Ron Paul meetup and maybe you could get to know one a little better.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
oh, look: even some of ron paul's best friends are mexicans.

oh, i also dug up this nugget from ron paul's first run at office decades back:


"White Men! White women! The swastika is calling you. The Jew is using the black as muscle against you. And you are left there helpless. Well, what are you going to do about it, whitey? Just sit there? Of course not. You, are going to join with us. The members of the American Socialist White peoples Party. An organisation of decent, law abiding white folk. Just like you. I pledge allegiance to Adolf Hitler!”
 

RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin
oh, i also dug up this nugget from ron paul's first run at office decades back:
not.


"White Men! White women! The swastika is calling you. The Jew is using the black as muscle against you. And you are left there helpless. Well, what are you going to do about it, whitey? Just sit there? Of course not. You, are going to join with us. The members of the American Socialist White peoples Party. An organisation of decent, law abiding white folk. Just like you. I pledge allegiance to Adolf Hitler!”
brilliant.

That took 8 minutes to debunk and post. You are going to have to try harder.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
5
seeing how 4/5 monkeys have seen the blues brothers, don't mistake my trolling for a sarious post. but seeing how you're having difficulty in discernment, i well s'pose you're a rightly qualified paulistinian.


wear this badge with pride.
go make lemonade from these lemons.
or just lay back & think about the fuhrer, and this will all be over soon.
 

stevew

unique white person
Sep 21, 2001
34,244
4,518
Ham sandwich will not be getting my vote this year. The only
man worthy of the office.

one minute and twelve seconds in.
 

narlus

Eastcoast Softcore
Staff member
Nov 7, 2001
24,644
33
behind the viewfinder
i dig huckabee. agree with his religious views or not (and most on this forum don't) at least he's got the decencly and fortitude to stand for something w/out wavering. i like his response to the evolution question, he sums up the real issue pretty well.

'descendants of a primate' :clapping: are humans not primates?

:monkeydance:

he doesn't understand the principles of evolution very well....i could send a few Stephen J Gould books his way, maybe it would help.
 

RenegadeRick

98th percentile on my SAT & all I got was this tin
seeing how 4/5 monkeys have seen the blues brothers, don't mistake my trolling for a sarious post. but seeing how you're having difficulty in discernment, i well s'pose you're a rightly qualified paulistinian.
oh $tinkle. you misunderestimated me.


It took only seconds to realize that it wasn't Paul, but since it has been 20 years since I have seen the Blues Brothers, it took me a short while to discover where it was from. Most folks would not take the time to research and just accept the carp you spew, and that is just sad. This is why America™ needs to listen to me about who they should vote for to be president, because I take the time to do the research and know what's best.

wear this badge with pride.
go make lemonade from these lemons.
Thank you, I shall.

or just lay back & think about your geriatric man-crush, and this will all be over soon.
Unfortunately, I believe there is a long difficult road ahead.
 

manimal

Ociffer Tackleberry
Feb 27, 2002
7,215
16
Blindly running into cactus
he doesn't understand the principles of evolution very well....i could send a few Stephen J Gould books his way, maybe it would help.
regardless of the 'faith in evolution' or 'faith in God' debate, the point is that he took a stand for something and makes the point that his stance on evolution isn't pertinent to a presidential debate. i think he made it very clear when he said something about the fact that he doesn't write the curriculum for education.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,027
3
Denver
but the secretary of education doesn't decide on any type of national curriculum, the last time i checked, those matters were handled by the state.
No child left behind "act" proved that the Feds can have as much control as they want.

The Fed continues to pass all kinds of legislation tying certain requirements to funding.
 

Plummit

Monkey
Mar 12, 2002
233
0
taking the example of Norman Hsu, the democrats seem to have taken the moral high ground when it comes to campaign contribution. and when hillary returns $32K from her $100M warchest, this too is peanuts. it's not about the amount - it's about principles, which seem to be on the cheap in the paul camp.
reductio ad absurdum much?
LOL... Seems the other candidates are indeed worried about the public perception that they will do their large donors bidding, and perhaps, more rightly so, that the public will follow the media from meaningless "scandal" to "scandal" with no substantive discussion of the issues. If running scared from the media rather than standing up for your beliefs (Would H or whoever have given back Hsu's cash if the story hadn't been picked up?) is your idea of principled, perhaps by extension you believe you are only doing wrong if you are caught.

Somehow, I think RP's saying he'll take money from anyone (but they ought to know he won't change his positions regardless of the size of the donation) is, in fact, substantially more principled. I think H's and many of the other mainstream candidates' acceptance of large corporate contributions really are somewhat more suspect.

if we are to choose who would best tackles these sticky topics, are we to look past one's character? why not just choose guiliani if this is your measure?
Rudy, now that is funny. While I agree corporate tax cuts are a necessary thing, especially if we enter a recession, I would hate to think of the powers hizzoner would try to assume if he assumed the mantle of Prez. Freedom, privacy... those are guaranteed "through authority" by RG. Where have we heard that before?

I think I prefer RP's pragmatic approach of less government, less gov't spending, less taxation, respect for the checks and balances laid out in the constitution, AND more individual freedom. In fact, I sort of fail to understand why so few of the candidates grasp the fiscal and monetary crises this nation is facing, and how they can continue to justify the continuation of a war we're borrowing to finance and/or ever-expanding government and nanny state programs (DHS included).

I just don't see any of the other candidates being serious about cutting spending and reducing the size and wastefulness of gov't.. or restoring your rights which have been unconstitutionally taken away.
 

Plummit

Monkey
Mar 12, 2002
233
0
If awarding someone a medal is the same as "giving them $30k" then I don't think I'm stretching too far.
I think you've misunderstand the point. His objection to the medal was in taking $30k from the taxpayers (where federal money comes from) and giving it to an individual in the form of a medal or other token... probably could have been an incredibly ornate bathmat, for that matter.
 

Plummit

Monkey
Mar 12, 2002
233
0
"if you want to believe you descended from primates, we'll see how far that gets ya."

uhhh, wow. yeah, that's the guy I want vetoing my education bills.
Sort of surprising you want anyone in the federal government dictating over-arching, over-reaching education bills to you in your state and town.... How much good have federal "education" bills done? Are teachers paid more, are schools better equipped, turning out better educated student, or are schools simply jumping through hoops for federal funding?
 

Silver

find me a tampon
Jul 20, 2002
10,847
0
Orange County, CA
regardless of the 'faith in evolution' or 'faith in God' debate
No.

There is no debate. Just like there is no debate among reasonably educated people that my computer works on electricity provided by my electric company, and not on little tiny men who take a nano sized subway to work every day to labor in the Macbook mines on my desk, there is no such thing as "faith in evolution".

It's a valid scientific theory. It underpins biology, and has implications for many other areas of study. Frankly, equating the two is ignorant at best, and offensive at worst.
 

Plummit

Monkey
Mar 12, 2002
233
0
Is English a second language for you?

I know it's difficult to detect sarcasm on the internet, even if English is your primary language, but that post you just quoted by Ohio really should've been obvious as sarcastic.
Sarcastic yes, but the premise remains that the fed gov't should have role in education. Why shouldn't education be a states rights issue?