[Reactor]

The national debt is now about 8 trillion dollars, Here is where it came from:

Light blue : Regan/Bush starting a republican tradition of deficit spending

Dark Blue: Clinton, turning the deficit into a surplus

Red: Evil Shrub turning a surplus into a record deficit.


Your share: $27,000 each man/woman/child
Iraq war: $ 1,300 each man/woman/child.

 

[Silver]

Elect a bunch of guys ideologically commited to the idea that government is a terrible thing...well, we shouldn't be surprised when they deliver on their convictions.

 

[BurlyShirley]

Clinton was so awesome. He just jedi mind-tricked planes away from hitting buildings.

 

[fluff]

Clinton was so awesome. He just jedi mind-tricked planes away from hitting buildings.

Ohh, so that's how you avoid a budget deficit...

 

[Reactor]

Ohh, so that's how you avoid a budget deficit...

Gee I thought he did it by sound fiscal policy, unlike the "take the money and run" republicans. Regan/Bush fiscal policy is what converted me from staunch republican to democrat.

Elect a bunch of guys ideologically committed to the idea that government is a terrible thing...well, we shouldn't be surprised when they deliver on their convictions.

Yea, but they find it so convenient to spy on their fellow Americans, and put Ted Kennedy on the no fly list....The way he drives...putting him on the no fly list is taking a big risk.

 

[Reactor]

Clinton was so awesome. He just jedi mind-tricked planes away from hitting buildings.

No, I think once they knew the Rhode scholar had left and was replaced with a D- "boys gone wild" cheerleader the front door was wide open..


The fact remains the only president to leave office with a net surplus in the last 25 years is Clinton...Unless Il Deuce can find a couple of trillion in change in the couch. Sometime in early '06 the government is going to hit the debt ceiling...then the stuff hits the fan.

 

[LordOpie]

Red: Evil Shrub turning a surplus into a record deficit.


Your share: $27,000 each man/woman/child
Iraq war: $ 1,300 each man/woman/child.

what i don't understand is how the middle class (who vote republican) continue to think this fiscal policy is good for them. Middle class implies some sort of education.

... put Ted Kennedy on the no fly list....The way he drives...putting him on the no fly list is taking a big risk.

potd

 

[Changleen]

Ignorance. Most people have no idea about this, or just don't care.

 

[kinghami3]

Ignorance. Most people have no idea about this, or just don't care.

All my conservative business major friends try to come up with some cockamainy reason why Clinton just built a false economy, and that all this deficit is Clinton's fault and Bush is doing a good job rebuilding the economy, but none of it makes any sense to me (not surprised).

 

[LordOpie]

...Bush is doing a good job rebuilding the economy...

ask your friends how putting us deeper in the hole is helpful. Don't be argumentative, ask them to educate you. Let them figure out on their own that this is bad fiscal.

And if they somehow come up with a good answer, post it

 

[Changleen]

A false economy with false money and products?

 

[kinghami3]

A false economy with false money and products?

They blame the false economy on the dot com boom, which makes some sense, but in the long run there is probably some false economy going on at all times. I will have to ask them to give me a summary (once I get back to school). My old roommate just bagan to hate Bush early last quarter but shares/shared the same views on the economy. I will have to ask him.

 

[F.O.G]

Funny how Clinton is given credit for a "False" or better yet "Flash in the Pan" economy, yet isn't railed for having it collapse before he left office. Also, take a look at the military stripping that Clinton employed throughout the 8 years he was in office. I hate that people don't look at the bigger picture like you have all pointed out. Reagan came in after one of the lamest Presidents in recent history unless you count Ford, and had to deal with the Soviets and their willingness to bankrupt thier country in the sake of weapon and military spending. W got handed a huge blow with 9/11 and how you could possibly think that at least some of this deficit isn't a direct result of the actions that have had to be employed to safe gard or country, you have to be crazy. The answer is NOT black and white as you all seem to think, ie; it is all W's fault.

 

[kidwoo]

Funny how Clinton is given credit for a "False" or better yet "Flash in the Pan" economy, yet isn't railed for having it collapse before he left office..

Collapse? Strange I don't remember that.
Elaborate. A republican talking point a year into bush's reign doesn't make it true.

Strange how what you call a "flash in the pan" coincides precisely with a drastically different spending priority than his adjacent colleagues had.

The answer is NOT black and white as you all seem to think, ie; it is all W's fault.

What IS his fault as well as the morons he's chosen as a cabinet is completely gutting a tax base, (more corporate than individual but both apply) and spending MORE money on contracting out governmental work that costs more in overhead. I am one of those contractors and it costs my office much more to have me on board doing the exact same job as the federal employees sitting at the desks adjacent to mine. Same goes for my girlfriend.

A huge part of the deficit you see is due to lack of income as well as horribly misguided spending in what's nothing more than a false sense of "smaller gubbamint" the monkey likes to espouse.

 

[Silver]

All my conservative business major friends try to come up with some cockamainy reason why Clinton just built a false economy, and that all this deficit is Clinton's fault and Bush is doing a good job rebuilding the economy, but none of it makes any sense to me (not surprised).

Ask them if a housing bubble is a bad thing with huge levels of debt, both personal and governmental.

Then ask them when they became such passionate Keynesians...

 

[LordOpie]

Ask them if a housing bubble is a bad thing with huge levels of debt, both personal and governmental.

Then ask them when they became such passionate Keynesians...

please elaborate as I consider myself a Keynesian and it sounds like you're slamming 'em


It would be nice if F.O.G. returned and answered those questions KidWoo, but he won't.

 

[slein]

W got handed a huge blow with 9/11 and how you could possibly think that at least some of this deficit isn't a direct result of the actions that have had to be employed to safe gard or country, you have to be crazy.

Is that what the 9/11 commission said? I don't get it... I gots to get me some enlightenment.

Governments spend money like its going out of style. I learned in evil engineering school that everything has limits... and you can only push them so far.

 

[Silver]

please elaborate as I consider myself a Keynesian and it sounds like you're slamming 'em


It would be nice if F.O.G. returned and answered those questions KidWoo, but he won't.

The people that kinghami are talking about (Republican business students) generally don't hold Keynes in high regard.

Unless their guy is acting like one, that is. They still won't admit it.

 

[kinghami3]

I'm not even sure who Keynes is? What's his stance/philosophy? (I'm liberal arts, business is a foreign language to me).

 

[lonewolfe]

What about our trade deficit with China? China and India have the fatest growing economies in the world with China in the lead by a longshot. If things don't start heading in the opposite direction soon we are going to have to learn to speak Chinese very quickly. I'm not talking about being able to negotiate manufacturing deals for bicycle frames either.

 

[LordOpie]

I'm not even sure who Keynes is? What's his stance/philosophy? (I'm liberal arts, business is a foreign language to me).

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=john+keynes

his thinking might be a bit out of date, but it's a great foundation both economically and philosophically.

In other words, it's not as Nietzchie (sp?) said, "Every man for himself." (see "A Fish Called Wanda")

 

[Reactor]

Funny how Clinton is given credit for a "False" or better yet "Flash in the Pan" economy, yet isn't railed for having it collapse before he left office. Also, take a look at the military stripping that Clinton employed throughout the 8 years he was in office. I hate that people don't look at the bigger picture like you have all pointed out. Reagan came in after one of the lamest Presidents in recent history unless you count Ford, and had to deal with the Soviets and their willingness to bankrupt their country in the sake of weapon and military spending. W got handed a huge blow with 9/11 and how you could possibly think that at least some of this deficit isn't a direct result of the actions that have had to be employed to safe guard or country, you have to be crazy. The answer is NOT black and white as you all seem to think, ie; it is all W's fault.

Actually the economy was sound for the entire length of Clinton's term. It didn't go south until candidate George " Chicken little" Bush ran around screaming how bad it was and adversely affected consumer confidence. It was still going fairly good even when Bush took over. But he had to press the point and tell everyone how bad our economic situation was, so he could get tax cuts that mostly benefited his friends and supporters. After a few months , the economy started to travel south, and he got what he wanted, money taken out of the treasury and put into his friends pockets.

The record on the deficit is clear. with three republican presidents and one democrat over a period of 25 years only one president had actually cut the national debt.. Clinton. Only one president had a surplus...Clinton. Regan/Bush the first, had twelve contiguous years in office and couldn't turn a surplus, they set multiple records for highest debt and highest deficits. In four years Clinton turned the record deficits into record surpluses.

If according to you Bush's record deficits are really Clinton's fault, which is idiotic, then Who was Reagan to blame ? How about Bush the first? Both campaigned on platforms of fiscal responsibility, When Reagan entered office America was appalled with a 50 billion dollar deficit, he quickly raised the deficit to mind numbing levels. Bush the first just continued his bankrupt policy.

According to CBO and OMB the 9/11 attacks had very little effect on the economy as a whole, the recession had already started, they just added a little fuel to the fire, and that effect was short term and mostly regional. It was significant, but it wasn't the huge blow it's made out to be.

One of the reasons we find ourselves at an economic disadvantage in the world is the stratospheric interest payments on the debt. The other is the fact that we pour more of our GNP into the military than any other major country. We pay about 500 billion dollars interest on the national debt each year, it's now the largest single budget item. Interest paid on the national debt flows out of the country to foreign countries, diluting the value of the dollar. Foreign governments holding those bonds have enormous influence in Washington. If they don't continue to buy the bonds, the interest rate will have to be raised to make them more attractive. Raising the interest rate would cost the government about $100 billion per point. One of the reasons Washington is hesitant to act against China and its currency manipulation is that they hold a lot of bonds. When Il Deuce (and previous republican presidents) runs up the national debt he is selling the country down the river, and compromising the economic and national security of the US.

 

[slein]

Canada hasn't had a deficit for years, and our economy is apparently thriving. I'm not sure what the relationship between the two is... all I can say is that my eBay purchases work out better in my favour.