Exactly which is brought on my exposure of modifications to the original sport.
Ehem.. Cannondale is going strong in the East. Their craftsmanship and support is unmatched in the industry. How about Seven Cycles or Independant Fabrications? Can we get someone who lives in the East to respond?
You can always embrace and accept change, but who said you had to and like it? Somethings are better off left untouched.
But anyway, this thread is far gone past it's limit of conversation. Sure I can understand the thought of introducing variations to the sport to people in the midwest or elsewhere that are looking for a 'bite' if you will, but why can't people in those regions just work with that they have? I don't care if the XC race is held across the corn fields of kansas, the competition will still be the same if the competitors bring the desire and heart.
I've said what I needed to say. Ciao
Thanx.
...I only started west coast riding about 3 months ago. Otherwise I was a roadie on a mtbike. I didn't realize how physically challenging mountain biking was until I tried riding west coast. (I realize east coast has some great areas but they are sooo hard to find sometimes)I think this who debate comes down to old school vs new school. It happens everywhere all the time. Music, sports,polictics etc...Sine my belief is with the new school adrenaline pumping action I tend to believe that the money and the new up and comers will and would prefer something more rounded (the explosion of freeriding, xgames and snowboarding are examples) extreme sports. Not crazy (red bull is just retarded for how extreme they go. Kudos to them but 40+ ft jeez) but extreme. Some prefer old school. Some prefer new. The money will be in the new school as well as the future. Its only a matter of figuring out where that new school will be.
Excuse me, 'mom'...but why should we be trying to promote traditional XC over something new if people want to do something different?
Why must we halt evolution and keep the status quo for YOUR sake? Why must everyone else do what you want them to? Why must a younger generation be the same as you are?
Discuss.
-MD
Why must we halt evolution and keep the status quo for YOUR sake? Why must everyone else do what you want them to? Why must a younger generation be the same as you are?
Discuss.
-MD
So it was totally an unintentional flame by me to call dhers and rec riders fat... kinda my nature.
I did read all the previous posts before i posted, but really i see a solution looking for a problem and not a "real" problem.
I've probally been riding and racing as long as you, Mr Monkey, and i enjoy the "progession" in technology too, my favorite bike is my Metalhead which couldn't even be concieved of when i started riding in the eighties. I've got an 18lb roadbike and use a $1500 SRM bike computer setup to control my training efforts.
I have invested 6 years of my life so far in getting an advanced degree in sport science, where i've used portable exhaled gas analyzers on XC and DH riders in competition
I worked for and raced for a company for 4 years that was made up of dhers and bmxers, and we had fun digging and going out to plattekill, but lo and behold even the most tattoed and pierced of us still went for XC rides on anemic xc bikes. And we did it more often than anything else.
Maybe it's just the region i live in but XC still thrives (actually where are you located?), we have some alternative style events here in the NE like the Punk Bike and Second Start enduros, and although they are popular it seems obvious but the lack of imitators that the market has spoken and promoters find far more success in putting on traditonal events.
It's hard for me to argue against the logic of the market.
So yeah, at least in New England, the Southeast and The Mid Atlantic, XC doesn't need to be revived.
I've tried promoting and competing in all sorts of alternative events from scot trials, derby's, poker runs, and an eight rider heat type race on a mX track, and I even attended a race once that used ISDE rules (another Rick SUtton fiascoe). Everytime people complained about quirks and gaffs and , and I was left feeling like i would have rather promoted or attended a normal race. I guess i should just stop before i ramble all night.
I just re-read this, really sounds flamish but it isn't i promise.
R
RideMonkey
Guest
XC is nothing like it was during the early/mid 90's. Ah the good ole days......
Why must a younger generation do what you want them to? Sure you can have a thousand different variations to XC but XC means only one thing. It will never change.
If you want some XC the way it used to be, then you should have been camped next to us all week during the 24 hours of Snowshoe when team Hugh Jass showed everyone up by riding the hardest course in the world on fixed gear fully rigid bikes with cyclocross tires in the back all while wearing women's clothing and "Chip's" helments.
http://www.mtbmind.com/images/gallery/snowshoe/8x6/DSC00084-01.jpg
A shot of the easy part of the course (powerline trail):
http://www.mtbmind.com/images/gallery/snowshoe/8x6/DSC00127-01.jpg
Exactly, it is more expensive
besides that the courses are the same as they ever were, it is the technology that make things seem easier.
I stand firmly behind the idea that is a combination of the stabilisation of the market (Read: irrational exuberance) and the ineptness of promoters and NGB's that has caused the percipitous decline in racer-days over the last 5 years.
basically people (like that jackass Rick Sutton) have convinced the average rider that $40 entry fees are normal and that 2000 racers should be on the course at the same time. The biggest issue is a decline in the race experience, caused by promoters who still think it's 1995 and you can get away with that garbage.
-yo
By the way, I ride a rigid singlespeed with drop bars in addition to my xc, DH, and freeride hardtail bikes. I just love riding in every direction and with any style. I don't see how Team Hugh Jass, hardcore or not, should make me feel any differently about racing. (Were they really riding fixed-gear offroad...or singlespeed? Fixed offroad is nigh-impossible.)
To say cross-country means only one thing is just silly. Its current format doesn't reflect some Platonic essence of 'cross-country-ness.' There are an infinite number of ways to run a cross-county race. Heck, maybe each race should have its own format to keep things interesting. Maybe Hans Rey and his 'Rads' could be called in to consult...
My point in this whole thread has been that, while 'trailriding' is the staple of all mountain biking everywhere, cross-country racing in my area and experience (out here in southern Cal) is incredibly lame.
I will NEVER race XC again unless there's a new format which supplements or replaces it. My 1st XC race in the beginner category cost me about $50 and consisted of riding on fireroad only with one short, short singletrack section. I was crushed by guys who looked like Ned Overend and has been racing beginner since '86 or so. Not a $50 experience in my book.
I race for fun, and fun the races are not. The Rim Nordic series out here is a fairly cool course, but I prefer to ride it when there's no one else on the trail...not when it's packed with people and I have to pay. So perhaps I'm not the authority on XC racing...then again, a lot of people feel the way I do. If there was some sort of new format, I'd certainly try it. If I liked it, I'd do it again.
I really want to know what others think of an enduro-style race! That'd really be a cool category!!!
Let's offer people some more choice and see where they put their time, money, and effort...not force them to ride fixed-gears offroad to give themselves a challenge. If they want to, great...but choice choice choice and let Darwin have his way.
MD
PS As to racing being expensive, I dunno...purple-ano bikes from the 80s cost an arm and a leg, even in today's dollars. You can get a damned nice bike now, custom steel or full-suspension, for under $1500. Technology is helping us out here. The race fees are another story!
To say cross-country means only one thing is just silly. Its current format doesn't reflect some Platonic essence of 'cross-country-ness.' There are an infinite number of ways to run a cross-county race. Heck, maybe each race should have its own format to keep things interesting. Maybe Hans Rey and his 'Rads' could be called in to consult...
My point in this whole thread has been that, while 'trailriding' is the staple of all mountain biking everywhere, cross-country racing in my area and experience (out here in southern Cal) is incredibly lame.
I will NEVER race XC again unless there's a new format which supplements or replaces it. My 1st XC race in the beginner category cost me about $50 and consisted of riding on fireroad only with one short, short singletrack section. I was crushed by guys who looked like Ned Overend and has been racing beginner since '86 or so. Not a $50 experience in my book.
I race for fun, and fun the races are not. The Rim Nordic series out here is a fairly cool course, but I prefer to ride it when there's no one else on the trail...not when it's packed with people and I have to pay. So perhaps I'm not the authority on XC racing...then again, a lot of people feel the way I do. If there was some sort of new format, I'd certainly try it. If I liked it, I'd do it again.
I really want to know what others think of an enduro-style race! That'd really be a cool category!!!
Let's offer people some more choice and see where they put their time, money, and effort...not force them to ride fixed-gears offroad to give themselves a challenge. If they want to, great...but choice choice choice and let Darwin have his way.
MD
PS As to racing being expensive, I dunno...purple-ano bikes from the 80s cost an arm and a leg, even in today's dollars. You can get a damned nice bike now, custom steel or full-suspension, for under $1500. Technology is helping us out here. The race fees are another story!
My ideal XC format would be an urban race course, 1-4 miles long, with wide road sprint sections, curb hops and stairs (up and down), and 1-3 foot drops every 100 yards.
This format would favor a Tracer on semi-slicks. Yes, I ride one. Still, I think the industry will be forced to embrace this type of generalist bike as promoting freeride/downhill-specific products alienates older, conservative consumers and removes younger, more aggressive consumers from the gene pool.
My format supports racers with endurance and basic offroad skills in a head-to-head contest that doesn't favor the holeshot winner.
I would suggest a light industrial park or university campus for the urban venue. People might come watch if the race was 30 minutes from home.
This format would favor a Tracer on semi-slicks. Yes, I ride one. Still, I think the industry will be forced to embrace this type of generalist bike as promoting freeride/downhill-specific products alienates older, conservative consumers and removes younger, more aggressive consumers from the gene pool.
My format supports racers with endurance and basic offroad skills in a head-to-head contest that doesn't favor the holeshot winner.
I would suggest a light industrial park or university campus for the urban venue. People might come watch if the race was 30 minutes from home.
WTF?!!
I knew this would happen as soon as I saw RMs first post on this thread.
What started as a civil discussion of ideas for a new format has some how turned into a "if you don't like XC then you are a fat jerk!" bunch of crap.
I see why our sport has such a hard time with trail access issues. We are no where near unified. There is too much bickering going on in our ranks. How the hell can we take on groups trying to close our trails when we can't even have a civil discussion about our own sport!!! I left MTBR because of all the fighting and name calling. I thought it was mostly kids just trying to get a rise from people, but it seems that I was wrong. Most of the crap I see dished out now is from supposed adults. Old school, new school ; east, west who gives a f___!!!
I'm going out to ride and have fun regardless of what you want to call it.
I knew this would happen as soon as I saw RMs first post on this thread.
What started as a civil discussion of ideas for a new format has some how turned into a "if you don't like XC then you are a fat jerk!" bunch of crap.
I see why our sport has such a hard time with trail access issues. We are no where near unified. There is too much bickering going on in our ranks. How the hell can we take on groups trying to close our trails when we can't even have a civil discussion about our own sport!!! I left MTBR because of all the fighting and name calling. I thought it was mostly kids just trying to get a rise from people, but it seems that I was wrong. Most of the crap I see dished out now is from supposed adults. Old school, new school ; east, west who gives a f___!!!
I'm going out to ride and have fun regardless of what you want to call it.