[vibiker]

Here's the deal.

I was at Whistler this last w/e. I hit the last table-top in lower A-Line with too much speed. I shot up, the bike got vertical (and then inverted) on me and I could not recover. Thank God for protective gear.

My question is this, aside from not getting into this situation in the first place, is there any way that you can recover from this (namely, rotate the bike forward)? I have heard that locking up the front wheel in the air should rotate the bike forward, but experimenting with this, it did not seem to do too much.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
John

 

[MikeD]

Either brake will lower your nose. I don't understand how you could experiment with that and it not do much. If you're in the air and lock up a wheel, it's serious nosedive time.

Other than that, you can always shift your weight forward and/or pull up with your feet (easiest on clips...)

MD

 

[kidwoo]

Hit the back brake. The rotational momentum of the wheel will transfer to the bike and bring the rear end up/front end level. It's hard to remember when your front end is all cocked up in the air sometimes and you're in panic mode. Front brake will have a similar but much less pronounced effect. Inverted? Jesus maverick are you all right?

As far as those last three jumps go, I was usually overshooting the first, making the second, and braking like a fiend before that last one. It's a little out of sync with the long one before it for sure.

 

[MikeD]

Yeah, I've never actually hit the front brake, now that I think about it. I just learned about the back brake when, for the first time, I over-cleared a table, and instinctively hit the rear brake because I was going past where I wanted to be (the tranny).

I felt like a cartoon character with my head still in the air and a strectched neck as the bike dove down beneath me...right onto the tranny. It was cool.

I'm a crappy jumper.

Edit: Am I wrong to assume that the reason this happens is the same reason that a squeeze on the rear brake brings your front end down from a manual? Or, for that matter, on the front end, makes the fork dive when you apply the front brake?

 

[kidwoo]

Yeah, I've never actually hit the front brake, now that I think about it. I just learned about the back brake when, for the first time, I over-cleared a table, and instinctively hit the rear brake because I was going past where I wanted to be (the tranny).

I felt like a cartoon character with my head still in the air and a strectched neck as the bike dove down beneath me...right onto the tranny. It was cool.

I'm a crappy jumper.

I have an interesting habit of hitting the front brake when I do no-handers on doubles. As soon as my left hand gets back, it needs reassurance of where it is or something. I don't do it with no handers on big tables on my dh bike, just doubles on the little bike. Front braking seems to want to pull the bike foward like you're straightening your arms where as the rear gives more of an angle adjustment. Either way, getting inverted accidently may just lend itself to bad ass backflips later in life. Not sure brakes can do much at that point.

 

[vibiker]

... Jesus maverick are you all right?

The buttocks stung for a minute or two, but after heading back to the truck to replace the saddle, I was back at it.

I will NEVER do that stuff w/o my Rock Garden gear .

 

[crashing_sux]

For what it's worth how much effect hitting the brakes in the air has is dependent upon how heavy your wheels are and how fast you are going, more mass and rotating speed give you more to work with.

What I'd love to know is if there is any decent way to pull the front end up once it starts diving. It's only happened to me a few times but when it does I just hold on and pray, not feeling like there is much I can do except try to push the rear end down with my legs and pull the front up (although that also puts me low and forward on the bike, not exactly where I want to be for a landing).

 

[buildyourown]

When I learned to jump, I was taught to always come down it the safety position. Bike level, weight neutral. It might not be the fastest or smoothest but the risk of injury is very low even if you come up short. 50/50 a dub is better than the icepick.
Once you learn how to suck up lips so you will always be able to land in the safety position, you can start trying to pump the backside.

I always have to suck up those last three. By the time I hit that last one, I'm hauling. The landing lasts forever so you just need to be ready to soar.

 

[kidwoo]

The landing lasts forever

My ankles and wrists disagree.

 

[OGRipper]

Yeah, if you clean the second one and don't brake-check you can launch huge off the last one without even trying, it's amazing (and a little freaky at first) how much speed you can pick up before landing but it is a looooong landing transition, just hang on and you can land it smoothly.

The only thing I've ever been able to figure out to stop a nosedive is to push my weight back over the rear end as much as possible. This seems to either pull the front up or lower the rear but whichever, it helps me. Getting my weight back can also help ride out a front wheel landing or at least allow me to bail off the back or to the side instead of getting launched over the bars...

 

[RhinofromWA]

What I'd love to know is if there is any decent way to pull the front end up once it starts diving. It's only happened to me a few times but when it does I just hold on and pray, not feeling like there is much I can do except try to push the rear end down with my legs and pull the front up (although that also puts me low and forward on the bike, not exactly where I want to be for a landing).

I am voting for a "panic rev" sorry that is on motobikes. Speeding up teh wheel has the opposite effect of stopping it....though not as powerfull as stopping (the change) happens a whole lot faster than reving.

I usually look for a soft section of earth.

 

[RhinofromWA]

For what it's worth how much effect hitting the brakes in the air has is dependent upon how heavy your wheels are and how fast you are going, more mass and rotating speed give you more to work with.

I actually noticed this on my RC race cars growing up more than anything else. The buggies (small light wheels) struggled with it but the race trucks with their bigger meatier wheels made for instant and easy angle changes.

I had some sweet home courses (took over mothers decent sized garden ) and had some gnarly jumps that took timing to get through and some big jumps that required to bring that nose back down to earth.

I have yet to successfully save myself from a moto loopout via the rear brake unless I just happen to kiss the ground with the rear locked enough to slap my front end down....nasty fealing. I just don't want to practice that enough (get in nasty positions)...or get enough air time to benefit from it.

 

[biggins]

just go with it and pull a back flip.

 

[NateH]

The trick to that table is to gap over to the right to where hornet lets out, adds a good ten feet of distance and some sideways motion, helps with the whole overclearing thing.

 

[buildyourown]

The trick to that table is to gap over to the right to where hornet lets out, adds a good ten feet of distance and some sideways motion, helps with the whole overclearing thing.

I think he was talking about the last three jumps before the rocky section and the 2 right hand berms.
Or I was at least.

Nate can tell you all about over clearing jumps and how to correct.
(insert link to video here)

 

[superstock]

Make sure you have an adequate amount of rebound on the front shock and that its more or less balanced with the rear. You don't want to be hitting big jumps in pogo stick mode. This is especially true if you're nosediving. Slow down the rear rebound to help slow down the rotation.

 

[Shmoe]

Alot of the time when people nose-drive/go backwards off of a jump it it because they are to tense. You just gotta relax and it will come to you. I found out the hard way a couple of times..

 

[OGRipper]

Yes I was talking about the last three jumps before the fast rocky downhill section.

And Superstock brings up a great point about rebound damping. Since rear suspension compresses as you hit a jump transition, not enough rebound damping can result in a nasty rear end kick when you launch, especially on bikes with a falling initial compression rate (which means a rising rebound rate). Slowing down the rebound rate on both ends can make a big difference when you need predictable handling in the air, but slowing down rebound in the rear is key to avoiding endos.

So that's one way to help prevent endo before it happens. Still not sure how to correct an endo while it's happening.

Hmmm, also begs the question of whether an endo is the front end dropping or the rear end rising? Probably one or other depending on a lot of factors.

Isn't an endo in progress the spookiest feeling? You know, that moment when you're still way up in the air, time freezes, and you just know you're gonna stack it hard?

 

[Bicyclist]

The best way to control your bike in the air is body positioning. Using the brakes in the air usually makes for an interesting landing

 

[offdawalley]

learn how to do a backflip, or start making that gap bigger, cause it is too small, but I think that slamming the back break pitches the front down