Quantcast

Right to Protest?

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
0
North of Oz
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Summit Protest Laws

Sunday, April 18, 2004 · Last updated 10:34 a.m. PT

Georgia passes laws limiting protests

By RUSS BYNUM
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER


Robert Randall, organizer for the "G-8 Carnival", a public demonstration of up to 10,000 people during the world leaders' summit in June, stands at one possible location for the protest, April 15, 2004 in Brunswick, Ga. The city of Brunswick passed a new law last month that permits public demonstrations only after organizers agree to numerous conditions and fees. (AP Photo/Stephen Morton)
BRUNSWICK, Ga. -- Robert Randall never knew free speech could cost so much - in dollars and in compromises - until he tried to organize a large-scale, peaceful demonstration for this summer's G-8 summit.

The coastal city of Brunswick, where Randall hopes to gather up to 10,000 people to protest the world leaders' summit, passed a law last month that places conditions on public demonstrations.

Organizers of protests like Randall's "G-8 Carnival" must put up refundable deposits equal to the city's estimated cost for clean up and police protection. Demonstrations may only last 2 hours, 30 minutes. Signs and banners may not be carried on sticks that might be brandished as weapons. And the signs may not be larger than 2-by-3 feet.

"This law would not exist if the G-8 was not coming here," said Randall, 51, a local therapist who has attended demonstrations since the Vietnam War. "It makes it impossible to express oneself through assembly or speech on public property unless you have money."

Thousands of anti-globalization protesters are expected June 8-10 when President Bush hosts the leaders of Britain, Japan, Germany, Italy, France, Canada and Russia on secluded Sea Island.

Brunswick, Savannah and surrounding counties have passed ordinances governing protest permits. The American Civil Liberties Union has threatened to sue, saying the laws "place impermissible limits on free speech."

Observers say the cities' actions fit a national pattern of managing dissent with beefed up laws and police powers that constrict constitutional guarantees of freedom of speech and assembly.

The new laws are a response to the violent protests during the 1999 World Trade Organization meeting in Seattle and the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks in 2001.

Demonstrators are facing some of their toughest restrictions since the 1960s, said Ronald Collins of the First Amendment Center in Arlington, Va.

"Post-Seattle and 9-11, it seems more municipalities are considering measures that may well undermine existing First Amendment law," he said.

Miami banned props such as water pistols, balloons and sticks before demonstrators arrived for a global trade summit in November. The city repealed the law last month in the face of lawsuits.

On Thursday, federal appeals court judges ruled that an Augusta, Ga., ordinance violated the rights of a women's group that sought to protest outside the all-male Augusta National Golf Club during the 2003 Masters golf tournament.

The ordinance, adopted just before the tournament, let police keep protesters a half-mile from the club's gates and required a permit for any assembly of five or more people. The appeals court said the law "creates the opportunity for undetectable censorship."

Activists also have complained that security plans for so-called "free speech zones" at the Democratic Convention in Boston will keep protesters from being seen or heard.

Cities "are choosing sides and what they're doing is trying to silence people from speaking out," said Mara Verheyden-Hilliard, a Washington attorney and co-founder of the Partnership for Civil Justice. "And they're using the law as a political tool to do it."

During the G-8 summit in Georgia, both Brunswick and Savannah expect to see protesters.

Brunswick is the nearest inland community to Sea Island, which will be off limits to demonstrators. Savannah, 60 miles north, will house 5,000 international journalists and dignitaries.

With the summit less than two months away, neither city has approved any permits for demonstrations - in part, activists say, because of steep requirements.

Brunswick requires groups of six or more to apply for permits at least 20 days before an event. The city's ordinance sets no limit on deposits, and says permits may be denied if a demonstration is likely to congest traffic, impede commerce or endanger the public.

Savannah's law is similar but does not specify the size of groups needing permits, which the ACLU says could be applied to one person.

City officials have said that protesters wanting to use public parks will be charged the same fees - $150 to $700 per day - as people renting those spaces for private events such as weddings. Groups of 150 or more must pay maintenance deposits of $1.50 per head.

Savannah Mayor Otis Johnson declined to comment, citing the threat of litigation from the ACLU. But City Attorney James Blackburn told the Savannah Morning News the city would review the ordinance in light of the appellate decision on the Augusta lawsuit.

In Brunswick, Randall says he's waiting to find a site for his demonstration before requesting a permit. The city's mayor says the city is trying to help him.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
when i think about it, protesting is silly.

ok, i don't think about it, i just remember all those unemployed CU dropouts coming down here to pick fights w/ the police and a grin creeps across my face.

<troll>
has anyone here ever protested anything? You know, in a formalized fashion w/ picket signs, chants, the awkwardness of realizing you don't fit in with anyone except for these losers all around you?
</troll>
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
OK for the flip side their free speach cost that town BIG $.

They are taking control and getting back some of whta a large demonstration costs the city. If the protest impeeds on the rest of the public and impacts others negatively, then there needs to be some ground rules so that everyone can coexist. There are rules that need to be followed so the can protest and chaos doesn't happen.

WTO protests in Seattle ring a bell? (ok I got halfway thru it and now see the WTO reference)

If 10 people want to protest it doens't affect the city that much. If 10,000 people come to protest the city needs to prepare for it. That protesting cost the city money and guess what we pay for other services too....cost incured by the protest should be atleast partially obsorbed by charging the organizer of the protest.

In no way does this limit free speach. Please don't make it out to be something more than it is.....people paying to play.
 

Tenchiro

Attention K Mart Shoppers
Jul 19, 2002
5,407
0
New England
Originally posted by RhinofromWA
OK for the flip side their free speach cost that town BIG $.

They are taking control and getting back some of whta a large demonstration costs the city. If the protest impeeds on the rest of the public and impacts others negatively, then there needs to be some ground rules so that everyone can coexist. There are rules that need to be followed so the can protest and chaos doesn't happen.

WTO protests in Seattle ring a bell? (ok I got halfway thru it and now see the WTO reference)

If 10 people want to protest it doens't affect the city that much. If 10,000 people come to protest the city needs to prepare for it. That protesting cost the city money and guess what we pay for other services too....cost incured by the protest should be atleast partially obsorbed by charging the organizer of the protest.

In no way does this limit free speach. Please don't make it out to be something more than it is.....people paying to play.
Wow, I guess people don't pay taxes in Georgia or something.


But what if people just show up to protest as individuals, and not as an organized group. Would they still be bound byt the same laws?
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by Tenchiro
Wow, I guess people don't pay taxes in Georgia or something.


But what if people just show up to protest as individuals, and not as an organized group. Would they still be bound byt the same laws?
What are the requirements.....over a certain amount? If there are 10,000 protestors someone organized it. If there are 10....it is a free for all.

I guess they have the once every 5 years 10,000 person 'peicefull' protest tax.......... Even peicefull protest brings with it 10,000 peoples worth of waste, wear and tear, extra police, ambulance staff, etc that comes with it.

Do you think they budget for a Protest?

Green peace send out "individuals" to protest while paying for their expenses. That is a underhanded chickensh!t way of approaching it. "Um, I don't know who these people are....they aren't with us" ....please.

Nothing there impeeds their FREE SPEACH. It is the cost of the rest of the stuff that they don't want to pay for. tear up the citypark.....pay to rent it, so we can fix it.

"We want our free speach"....well we don't want to foot the bill for your free speach. They are not muffling the rights of free speach they are charging for the paripherials that come along with it, and there is nothing wrong with that.

On your way to a free speach event you don't get a free car and free gas to get there. You don't get free hotel rooms. That isn't part of free speach. If you are going to organize a large event (size dictated by the local town) than you need to plan and let the city prepare....it will cost money because this is above and beyond what taxes pay for.

Why is that process so hard to understand? Or are you argueing with me for entertainment? :)
 
My step dad is a mounted (he rides a horse) cop in San Francisco. He had to deal with that protest last year in March. We have videos of him getting bottles thrown at him, getting attack with signs and being hit with various other flying objects. Having those little restrictions helps us feel a little better about him being out there. (think about it 10,000 angry protesters and 400 cops).
Nick
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by Tenchiro
But what if people just show up to protest as individuals, and not as an organized group. Would they still be bound byt the same laws?
You mean not have sticks
With the summit less than two months away, neither city has approved any permits for demonstrations - in part, activists say, because of steep requirements.

Brunswick requires groups of six or more to apply for permits at least 20 days before an event. The city's ordinance sets no limit on deposits, and says permits may be denied if a demonstration is likely to congest traffic, impede commerce or endanger the public.

Savannah's law is similar but does not specify the size of groups needing permits, which the ACLU says could be applied to one person.

City officials have said that protesters wanting to use public parks will be charged the same fees - $150 to $700 per day - as people renting those spaces for private events such as weddings. Groups of 150 or more must pay maintenance deposits of $1.50 per head.
6 people is easily reached and so yes probably. Public safety is another issue. I would as soon run over the protestors that walked down I-5 durring rush hour....they caused so much havoc and they protected them self under "free speach"....that is BS.

They are going to charge fees to use the parks like any other event.......nothing punishing the protestors....seems to be the standard for everyone.

What exactly is the problem....do you have a grasp on what free speach is? I can't yell FIRE in a theater.....maybe I wanted to....is that free speach? No. The tramplings are a result of what I did and I am held responsible....the protestors have the same responsibility. You hurt or cost people (local government) money (ie. damage them in any way) you have to answer for it.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Originally posted by drtbikrr
My step dad is a mounted (he rides a horse) cop in San Francisco. He had to deal with that protest last year in March. We have videos of him getting bottles thrown at him, getting attack with signs and being hit with various other flying objects. Having those little restrictions helps us feel a little better about him being out there. (think about it 10,000 angry protesters and 400 cops).
Nick
but don't you get it? The ACLU defends these cretin's "rights" to "express" themselves by hurling objects, for these are used to "emphasize" their plight, and are more clearly understood than "hey, hey - ho, ho - bush & cheney have got to go!".

i'd like to know just what does protesting accomplish 99% of the time, other than piss off cops?

i'd like to read about your dad's horse freaking out & trampling 100 or so berzerkleyites. Actually, streaming video would be more entertaining.
 

Spud

Monkey
Aug 9, 2001
550
0
Idaho (no really!)
Originally posted by $tinkle
but don't you get it? The ACLU defends these cretin's "rights" to "express" themselves by hurling objects, for these are used to "emphasize" their plight, and are more clearly understood than "hey, hey - ho, ho - bush & cheney have got to go!".
You know that is complete and utter bullsh*t. You assault a cop and go to jail, that's not a first amendment expression and the ACLU wouldn't have anything to do with your ass.

That's about the same thing as somebody arguing that the NRA supports shooting cops.
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by Tenchiro
Free speach now is much like justice, only for those that have money.

Yay for Amerika! :rolleyes:
Please give me a freak'n break...if every protestor gave a dollar.....

Free speach is an excuse to make trouble....it is for the poor people. :rolleyes: :)

You just fed such a line of bullsh!t to this board. How is renting a park for the std fee only suiting the rich people? It isn't impeeded your ability to speak your mind. It is a step to organize the group wishing to speak. Making it safe for everyone.

Peacefull protests are often equated with (lost appropriate wording) protest that hinder life of the area around them yet don't commit terrible crimes. If you are on teh side walk out of peoples way with a board chanting something that is peacefull.....you step out on the street and you are blocking traffic. You are now in danger and so is everyone else on the road from the backups and traffic accidents that prevail from your no aggressive step into the road. You block entire city blocks and shut an area down effectively you are not protesting peacefully.

You can speak your mind but not while you break laws.

People have messed up views on what free speach is these days. You can say what you want and I can't kill you, jail you, etc. I can also dissagree with you. Organizing and paying the cost of what you are doing is not limiting your free speach.

The fact that they haven't applied for the permits means they are going to break the law.....and can be cited or arrested...I guess. Their choice. I am sure the local residents that pay the taxes love the fact that a huge protest will cost them much much more than the protestors will ever pay.

Yay for "your" free speach that everyone else pays for! :thumb:
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,528
7,855
i guess you're against civil disobedience, too, rhino and $tinkle? don't want to disrupt the bus service, eh...

:rolleyes:
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by Spud
You know that is complete and utter bullsh*t. You assault a cop and go to jail, that's not a first amendment expression and the ACLU wouldn't have anything to do with your ass.

That's about the same thing as somebody arguing that the NRA supports shooting cops.
The permit process helps the city prepare to handle the crowds and even in the end protect the cops handling the event if everything is in order and goes smoothly.

Now in large protests, other laws are broken and they get away with it. Mob Mentality and all that..... How are you going to pick out one protestor who threw a bottle out of a crowd. They are acting under the protection of the group...annonymous if you will.

Fact is much goes on that they will not have to answer for.....that is what happens in large groups. So in fact asults on cops do go unpunished.....may I direct you to the WTO protests (riots) in Seattle? Good reading if you have nothing else to do.
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by Toshi
i guess you're against civil disobedience, too, rhino and $tinkle? don't want to disrupt the bus service, eh...

:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:whatever you rebel you.....

I guess you are all about breaking the laws just because you don't like them, to hell with how it effects everyone else.

I am against whining people who havent a f'n clue. Especially when they hide behind Free Speach. Own up to what you do. I guess if you were stuck in a bus you would be having the time of your lives....yeah lets go break a Starbucks window! It is a protest!

Protest please! Just have SOME common sense and plan if it is going to be large. That way you can do what you want to and so can everyone else.

People can go to jail in the name of free speach, just not for it.
 

Spud

Monkey
Aug 9, 2001
550
0
Idaho (no really!)
Ahh, much easier to just limit everyone's constitutional rights. Than go after individuals.

Seattle was disgusting. The pendelum also swung to the far extremes in Miami for the Free Trade Areas of the America Summit. Cops had a clusterf^ck and arrested plenty of innocent people complying with police orders Also good reading... story

We are getting pretty selective in what free speech is and that is the problem. When the VP rolls into town proterstors are sent to chain link enclosures arguably because they have sticks (signs) but if you have the same stick with a Bush Cheney sign, come on up to the front.
 

Tenchiro

Attention K Mart Shoppers
Jul 19, 2002
5,407
0
New England
Do you think a black curch in the 60's would have ever qualified for a permit? If it weren't for civil disobedience/unrest where would we be?
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Originally posted by LordOpie
99% of the time it'll get ya laid :devil:
buggered in jail?

w00t!
Originally posted by Toshi
i guess you're against civil disobedience, too, rhino and $tinkle? don't want to disrupt the bus service, eh...
by saying "too", i infer your recognition of (at least) 2 disparate groups of protesters: the @$$holes who claim their acts are nothing short of boston tea party activities a-la "a revolution every now & then is a good thing", & the legit (albeit pathetic) crowd of vietnam era chanters.

i harken back to my days as a bike messenger in DC when these fools would clog the mall on pro-life or earth day & i'd blast through 'em. guess you could say i was exercising my right to free wheel.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
Originally posted by Tenchiro
Do you think a black curch in the 60's would have ever qualified for a permit? If it weren't for civil disobedience/unrest where would we be?
"we", or "they"?
neither "we" nor "they" aren't the topic. Jackasses doing stupid human tricks & begging for cops to kick their ribs in are the problem.

you ever get pissed when your favorite trail / jump area gets closed down b/c of folks leaving the trail, or dumping mattresses? This is the analogy i'm trying to convey.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Originally posted by $tinkle
"we", or "they"?
neither "we" nor "they" aren't the topic. Jackasses doing stupid human tricks & begging for cops to kick their ribs in are the problem.

you ever get pissed when your favorite trail / jump area gets closed down b/c of folks leaving the trail, or dumping mattresses? This is the analogy i'm trying to convey.

So what you're saying is, the protestors in Georgia have been dumping mattresses on mounted police?

Completely unacceptable
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by Tenchiro
Do you think a black curch in the 60's would have ever qualified for a permit? If it weren't for civil disobedience/unrest where would we be?
Probably the same place we are today....jsut getting there by slightly different means. If the black church was denied a permit then they could then take the issue to court....ideally.

I like how you have the attitude of "come Sh1t on my front steps I will clean it up" attitude. I will have to try it some time. I will figure out what I am protesting later and since I can tresspass and deficate in public under the banner of free speach we are all good. :D

40yrs from now we can look back and say "where would we be with out public defication?" lol :)
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by MMike
What if people protest a different issues, but in the same place?

"No nukes!"
"Fur is Murder"

etc....
Looks like a lot of revenue directly into the government....maybe they could streamline it? ;)

"If men were angels, there would be no need for laws" - James Madison (founding father of the constitution)I think
 

Spud

Monkey
Aug 9, 2001
550
0
Idaho (no really!)
Locally we have sizeable tailgate parties for the college football games. Private property is damaged, you got your trespassing, drunks relieving themselves on lawns, public roads blocked without permits. The cops actually stop traffic on a 5-lane road to allow drunk jay-walkers to cross with open containers, littering abounds sometimes drunks fight with cops. I don’t see any important free speech issue here beyond “Attack the WAC” The police wouldn’t let that sh*t fly at a war protest.

I don’t like having to spend my tax dollars for protest/rally security, but that is the price of living in a free society.

And I damn well recognize if I bust a window at starbucks or huck a bottle at a cop I will be face down in the pavement and later sharing a cell with bubba.
 

Andyman_1970

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2003
3,105
5
The Natural State
I find it interesting that the "pro-protesting" crowd is for protesting things like gay-marriage, save the spotted owl, (insert activist agenda here), yet these same "pro-prostesters", ridicule the pro-lifers, anti-homosexual'ers, etc.

Is the "acceptablity" of the protest based on it's subject and your position on that subject, or do both "sides" have equal "rights" to protest.

I tend to notice that it's what your protesting and your position that determine whether it's "acceptable" (from societies and the medias perspective) to protest.

I agree with the protesting is stupid crowd, it seems like a huge waste of time and these are the people wanting the "spotlight" instead of getting in the trenches to really make a difference for their cause, IMO.
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by MMike
So what you're saying is, the protestors in Georgia have been dumping mattresses on mounted police?

Completely unacceptable
Yeah I didn't quite follow that either (Sorry $tinkle)

But if I can guess.....

MMike you are now financially responsible for dumpers on your local trails. Now they have a right to dump there under the "this is not marked illegal dumping area"(TINMIDA). But since this is your trail, you must haul out the materesses and burnt out cars and oil drums, etc left by the people who can get away with it.

All on your dollar. Fair? It is there right.....you must now pay for. They can't possibly be held responsible for the mess they make. How dare you ask for a permit to dump! Charge them fees for leaving their trash on what you are responsible for? How dare you sir! They are protected under TINMIDA, something we have had a right to do since the dawn of time.

I guess you are against civil disobedience. Don't want to disrupt the bus service...
 

Tenchiro

Attention K Mart Shoppers
Jul 19, 2002
5,407
0
New England
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,528
7,855
Originally posted by Andyman_1970
I find it interesting that the "pro-protesting" crowd is for protesting things like gay-marriage, save the spotted owl, (insert activist agenda here), yet these same "pro-prostesters", ridicule the pro-lifers, anti-homosexual'ers, etc.

Is the "acceptablity" of the protest based on it's subject and your position on that subject, or do both "sides" have equal "rights" to protest.

I tend to notice that it's what your protesting and your position that determine whether it's "acceptable" (from societies and the medias perspective) to protest.

I agree with the protesting is stupid crowd, it seems like a huge waste of time and these are the people wanting the "spotlight" instead of getting in the trenches to really make a difference for their cause, IMO.
er, your assumption is wrong. picket all you want outside abortion clinics and i'll support your right to do so. threaten a doctor and i'll be all for throwing your sorry butt in jail, however. (same goes for vandalism, when that line is crossed when protesting "liberal" causes such as the wto.) that's a consistent position, no?
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,528
7,855
Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Yeah I didn't quite follow that either (Sorry $tinkle)

But if I can guess.....

MMike you are now financially responsible for dumpers on your local trails. Now they have a right to dump there under the "this is not marked illegal dumping area"(TINMIDA). But since this is your trail, you must haul out the materesses and burnt out cars and oil drums, etc left by the people who can get away with it.

All on your dollar. Fair? It is there right.....you must now pay for. They can't possibly be held responsible for the mess they make. How dare you ask for a permit to dump! Charge them fees for leaving their trash on what you are responsible for? How dare you sir! They are protected under TINMIDA, something we have had a right to do since the dawn of time.

I guess you are against civil disobedience. Don't want to disrupt the bus service...
hey, listen up for a second: as tenchiro so kindly pointed out it is in the CONSTITUTION that you may peacably assemble. nowhere is it mentioned that mattress dumping is a right. thus the entire analogy is ridiculous, not to mention that trail maintenance (like road maintenance) would indeed be the proper duty of the government, if "trail" and "sidewalk" were transposed.
 

Spud

Monkey
Aug 9, 2001
550
0
Idaho (no really!)
Originally posted by Andyman_1970
I find it interesting that the "pro-protesting" crowd is for protesting things like gay-marriage, save the spotted owl, (insert activist agenda here), yet these same "pro-prostesters", ridicule the pro-lifers, anti-homosexual'ers, etc.

Is the "acceptablity" of the protest based on it's subject and your position on that subject, or do both "sides" have equal "rights" to protest.
.............snip............
Not so sure about that. Locally groups as diverse as the greens, labor unions, conservative taxpayer groups, librarians, and pro-lifers have joined up with NRA board member and U.S. Senator Larry Craig along with Representative Butch Otter to fight Ashcroft’s Patriot Act.

These groups all see it as a threat to their first amendment rights. It’s great theater to see photos of the NRA guys and greens planning strategy together.
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by Spud
Locally we have sizeable tailgate parties for the college football games. Private property is damaged, you got your trespassing, drunks relieving themselves on lawns, public roads blocked without permits. The cops actually stop traffic on a 5-lane road to allow drunk jay-walkers to cross with open containers, littering abounds sometimes drunks fight with cops. I don’t see any important free speech issue here beyond “Attack the WAC” The police wouldn’t let that sh*t fly at a war protest.

I don’t like having to spend my tax dollars for protest/rally security, but that is the price of living in a free society.

And I damn well recognize if I bust a window at starbucks or huck a bottle at a cop I will be face down in the pavement and later sharing a cell with bubba.
They do and will let that stuff fly. you are fooling yourself if you think they can even make a dent in the laws that are broken at a large (especially violent) protest. Why not spend your own tax dollars if you are going to participate in the said protest. How can you be OK for paying for others to do it but not to have them foot some of the bill? Seems pretty contradictory to me.

Odds are very good you will not have to own up to it at all. History shows us that....WTO/Seattle only managed a handfull of people that actually were charged. There is now way to go into a crowd and inforce anything really. They are there mostly for containment and suppression (if need be). Hell they are there to protect the crowd from themselves at times.

But no, you will probably never have to answer for lighting that dumpster on fire or turning over that car (extreme examples) or trampling across the grass, jay walking, blocking businesses so customers can't get to them (financial burden) blocking up traffic for 10 miles in any direction (the less extreme yet still costly to peaceful nonprotestors and residents)

But you don't care about them......you are happy to pay the bill, or let the city scramble to find a way.
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by Tenchiro
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
No where does the permit process do any of that.....
 

Spud

Monkey
Aug 9, 2001
550
0
Idaho (no really!)
Originally posted by Tenchiro
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
There you go spouting off some whacked special interest manifesto garbage.... ;)
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by Toshi
er, your assumption is wrong. picket all you want outside abortion clinics and i'll support your right to do so. threaten a doctor and i'll be all for throwing your sorry butt in jail, however. (same goes for vandalism, when that line is crossed when protesting "liberal" causes such as the wto.) that's a consistent position, no?
In case of WTO and the like should they let the city know they are coming?

Enforcement of WTO vandals can not happen. Consistent position that is not enforcable.....no? If you can't enforce the vandals than you can't enforce the person threatening the doctor to be consistent.
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by Toshi
hey, listen up for a second: as tenchiro so kindly pointed out it is in the CONSTITUTION that you may peacably assemble. nowhere is it mentioned that mattress dumping is a right. thus the entire analogy is ridiculous, not to mention that trail maintenance (like road maintenance) would indeed be the proper duty of the government, if "trail" and "sidewalk" were transposed.
Permits do no impeed your right to peacefully assemble. Wake up.

In my example I made dumping anywhere a right to put it into contect of $tinkles example. Geesh. :p Not even anything to argue about...the fact that you hate that the example makes sense (once you substitute the dumping is a right thing) must really piss you off?

putting the example into the arms of one man greatly increases the power of the example. It is easy to accept that the "government" will clean it up but if you think about it as a real person might foot the bill (like you do when you pay taxes) There is no difference only scale.

So the analogy holds firm.

NO WHERE DOES IT SAY THE GOVERNMENT MUST PAY FOR YOUR RIGHT TO FREE SPEACH....they just can't impeed it or punish you for it within reason. If they couldn't punish you, it wouldn't be illegal for me to yell FIRE in a movie theater or threaten a doctor.
 

$tinkle

Expert on blowing
Feb 12, 2003
14,591
6
cybercast news service broke this today:
A legal group filed a lawsuit Tuesday against the federal government for revoking a permit issued to pro-life groups to display pro-life signs in the nation's capital this weekend, to counter an upcoming pro-abortion march.
but, just who is this legal group? Could it be the ACLU? almost.

it's the ACLJ