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Rights for men (abortion)

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Originally posted by BurlySurly
Yes Spud we've established that like 9 times now. The point is that we feel that it is wrong that she gets all the choice.
It may be wrong...but to some extent, that's biology for ya. I mean, what're you going to do? It's INSIDE her body...c'mon now...she doesn't want you involved...she can skip out, or not tell you, or tell you and let you help with the decision making.

It would be an interesting reversal of situations if men were the one that carried the kiddos in their bellies.
 

bomberz1qr20

Turbo Monkey
Nov 19, 2001
1,007
0
Originally posted by BurlySurly


Also, if she doesnt want me to have any influence, than she shouldnt want ANY money either. If i cant raise it, why should i support it?
I paid support for years, and I had zero say in how the money was (mis)spent.

Unfortunately you can't pay support with some kind of food and rent voucher.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Originally posted by bomberz1qr20
Then he needs to step up and get her ass back in court, NOW. They look DOWN on that sh*t!

I did everything I could, and I have full custody now. In fact, mom f*cked off somewhere, we haven't heard from her in a long time.

The system will look at what's best for the kid. If you show them that you're what's best, they'll go with it.
uh...yeah. He has a couple times and she lies about it all of course and he gets the shaft. She may not be an "unfit" mother completely, but she certainly offers nothing better to the kids than he could. Its simply unfair and geared toward helping the mother.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
It may be wrong...but to some extent, that's biology for ya. I mean, what're you going to do? It's INSIDE her body...c'mon now...she doesn't want you involved...she can skip out, or not tell you, or tell you and let you help with the decision making.
Yeah, i know that she CAN do all these things, but i just think that if she's going to do them, she shouldnt expect, or be entitled to any help from the father.
 

Spud

Monkey
Aug 9, 2001
550
0
Idaho (no really!)
Originally posted by BurlySurly
Yes Spud we've established that like 9 times now. The point is that we feel that it is wrong that she gets all the choice.

Nice BS, you can quote the conclusion of my post and be patronizing, but not address the arguement. I made my point that we make our choice and set the timeframe for it.
 

bomberz1qr20

Turbo Monkey
Nov 19, 2001
1,007
0
Originally posted by BurlySurly
uh...yeah. He has a couple times and she lies about it all of course and he gets the shaft. She may not be an "unfit" mother completely, but she certainly offers nothing better to the kids than he could. Its simply unfair and geared toward helping the mother.
He needs to document it all. The court can look at the housing, the conditions, the number of people living there, etc. If he can prove the lies he will be on legal higher ground.

It took alot of time but I prevailed. My ex was (is) a drugged out b*tch but they still took her side at first.

Oh BTW - don't get married at 21 to a crazy chick. Just thought I'd throw that out.

:D
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Originally posted by BurlySurly
uh...yeah. He has a couple times and she lies about it all of course and he gets the shaft. She may not be an "unfit" mother completely, but she certainly offers nothing better to the kids than he could. Its simply unfair and geared toward helping the mother.
To some extent that's because historically (and by this I mean all of our history), women have been the homemakers. Men may provide money/support but they don't have to. There is no biological law that says men Have to stay around and help out. Genetically speaking, it is the woman's responsibility. But in civil society, we've changed that perception, and understandably, with women's lib and all that jazz, men are going to want to increase the rights alloted to them by civil society.

I think, in defense of women, and folks who think more like I do on this subject...probably your biggest barrier to being successful in your cause is the fear that it won't be giving men fair and just say, i.e. 50/50, but instead many men will demand entire control on the subject ...thus removing a woman's right to choose and putting us back in the kitchen as little more than a receptacle for men's seed and a baby machine. The fear is that we will regress back into something resembling Victorian europe where women are married off the moment they hit puberty and will lose what they have fought for. It's a fear thing, and I think with education and proper upbringing of women AND men, a common accord will be struck between the two genders.

It just takes time, and reasoning and fairness. If you approach it like women are the enemy and all I want is my damned offspring you goddamned beotch...well then...that sure as hell gets you nowhere ;).
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Originally posted by Spud
Nice BS, you can quote the conclusion of my post and be patronizing, but not address the arguement. I made my point that we make our choice and set the timeframe for it.
As i said, and Bomber also said. Everything you stated is completely understood. There is no argument there to adress.
 

BostonBullit

Monkey
Oct 27, 2001
230
0
Medway, MA
Originally posted by Spud
Nice BS, you can quote the conclusion of my post and be patronizing, but not address the arguement. I made my point that we make our choice and set the timeframe for it.
and I reitterate: SHE also made the exact same choice the man did at the exact same time and should have to live with her choice. this means no abortions for birth control purposes....do you agree or disagree and why.

(this of course is barring the circumstance of rape)
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Originally posted by Yippie!
The man's choice is made when he decides to have sex with a woman. You have got to remember that ultimately, the act of intercourse is there to create new life, to keep the species going.
You don't want to pay? Don't play!
End of story.

Oh jeezus.

You and spud should hang out some time.

We already know that it takes two to tango man. That's nothing new. The point is that after conception, the woman has all the rights. I'm saying that's wrong.
 

biggins

Rump Junkie
May 18, 2003
7,173
9
i actually must agree with you on this subject i have given it a lot of thought.
 

BostonBullit

Monkey
Oct 27, 2001
230
0
Medway, MA
Originally posted by derekbob
Our legal system didnt make things the way they are, God did. If you have a problem, take it up with him.
actually the government made things the way they are....I can't remember a case where a child support payment ruling was handed down by God.
 

derekbob

Monkey
Sep 4, 2003
198
0
Chico
Originally posted by BostonBullit
actually the government made things the way they are....I can't remember a case where a child support payment ruling was handed down by God.
Well actually, when Jesus died for our sins, it was kinda like a big child support payment (j/k :D )

I was refering to how women have control over the end result of the pregnency.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Originally posted by derekbob
I was refering to how women have control over the end result of the pregnency.
Yeah the debate is kind of all over the place:

Are we discussing the current ability of a woman to have an abortion without the man's input?

Are we discussing a woman's ability to pursue child support, whether or not the man even knows of the child's existence or wants anything to do with her decisions to keep the child?

It's hard...there's so many fine variations of the debate that make it rather hard to come to any conclusive agreement.

So far, I think most of us agree that:
If a woman chooses to have a child with the father either unknowning of the child's existence or wanting nothing to do with the child at all, then he should not be legally bound to pay child support.

A woman should include the 'father' in her decisions to either keep or abort the child, when said father is a reasoned and fair man, but understand that at least at this time this isn't going to change, because it's too easy to sway to a totally different kind of control.
 
Jan 15, 2002
51
0
Suburban MA, USA
I think men do have a say. The can say no, I don't want to have sex, or they can wrap their monkey, or they can get fixed before hand. Once the goods leave your posession they become the posession of the recipient.

Unfortunately, this is where the law breaks down. Should the transferred goods score a goal, there is still liability by the original owner yet the original owner no longer has any voice in the issue.

All that this means is that the burdon of responsibility is placed at the the point of the act itself, and not at the future/potential consequences. It's sort of like flushing a lit M80 down the toilet. The crime starts as lighting and flushing. The explosion that may or may not ensue is irrelevant ;)

So, this just tells us that in the eyes of the law as in the eyes of the church (Catholic at least), sex = children. Be prepared or BE PREPARED.

-Couch
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Originally posted by bomberz1qr20
OMFG! This is the best analogy ever!

:D :thumb:

While kind of funny, its not really an accurate analogy to begin with.
Because, first, the toilet is not its own free-thinking entity that also gets to decide whether or not it wants the M-80.
Secondly, the toilet does not get the choice of going to pay $350 at the abortion clinic to not have the M-80 explode if it wishes.
And third, the toilet cannot take you to court afterward for what you BOTH did and demand you pay a large percentage of your annual salary, even though it didnt allow you in the decision-making process to begin with.

Lookie here folks. I realize that the man makes a choice when he gets freaky with some fertile woman, ok? She also makes the SAME exact choice when she complies. The point is that in choices after that moment, the woman has ALL of the control, yet demands the help. She is entitled to it by law, and I think as men, we are definitely getting the shaft.
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Originally posted by BurlySurly
While kind of funny, its not really an accurate analogy to begin with.
Because, first, the toilet is not its own free-thinking entity that also gets to decide whether or not it wants the M-80.
Secondly, the toilet does not get the choice of going to pay $350 at the abortion clinic to not have the M-80 explode if it wishes.
And third, the toilet cannot take you to court afterward for what you BOTH did and demand you pay a large percentage of your annual salary, even though it didnt allow you in the decision-making process to begin with.

Lookie here folks. I realize that the man makes a choice when he gets freaky with some fertile woman, ok? She also makes the SAME exact choice when she complies. The point is that in choices after that moment, the woman has ALL of the control, yet demands the help. She is entitled to it by law, and I think as men, we are definitely getting the shaft.
Burly darling, I've said it before: you need to find yourself some better women to hang out with ;)

No, it's not fair...I think we're all in agreement on that...but what're you gonna do? Besides, you seriously have some issues with women based on previous posts...
 

bomberz1qr20

Turbo Monkey
Nov 19, 2001
1,007
0
Originally posted by BurlySurly
The point is that in choices after that moment, the woman has ALL of the control, yet demands the help. She is entitled to it by law, and I think as men, we are definitely getting the shaft.
That's America, a dating adventure.

All of that freedom means CHOOSE WISELY.
 

bomberz1qr20

Turbo Monkey
Nov 19, 2001
1,007
0
Originally posted by BurlySurly
While kind of funny, its not really an accurate analogy to begin with.
I just meant it's a great analogy for sex in general.

Except for some it's more like sticking a roman candle in an outhouse...

:eek:
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
Burly darling, I've said it before: you need to find yourself some better women to hang out with ;)


What're you doing this weekend:devil:
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,737
1,820
chez moi
Well, she has the power, I guess, if she gets pregnant.

I, on the other hand, can pee while standing straight up. Even trade in my book.

MD
 

Jr_Bullit

I'm sooo teenie weenie!!!
Sep 8, 2001
2,028
1
North of Oz
Originally posted by MikeD
Well, she has the power, I guess, if she gets pregnant.

I, on the other hand, can pee while standing straight up. Even trade in my book.

MD
:o: and who, dear sir, has ever told you women CAN'T pee standing up? Granted, peeing from the squatting position is far less messy...but it can be done standing...

Reminds me of a good joke...(sorry boys, it's pro-girl)

A guy walks into a bar, orders himself a beer and stands their looking around the place.
He sees a guy walk out of the men's room looking seriously peeved, the dude walks over to his table and starts gesticulating like mad...obviously pissed about something.
He watches as a dude from a neighboring table stands up, claps the first dude on the shoulder chuckling, then gets up and goes to the john.
A few minutes later...dude number 2 stalks out of the bathroom looking embarrassed, a little pissed, and immediately orders himself some shots.
He turns to the bartender - what's going on in the bathroom that's getting these guys all riled up?
The bartender chuckles...leans over and says in a low voice,
"There's this chick in there who claims she can pee a greater distance than any other guy in this room"
The dude snorts....says.."no way! I can totally beat any chick...what the hell? what's the bet?"
"50 bucks"
"I'm in"
And with that, the guy swallows his beer...gets up and swaggers into the bathroom.
Sure enough there's the chick. She slaps $50 on the sink, and he does the same.
She drops her pants....gets down on the floor...on her back...arches her hips and pisses a good three feet in a nice low arc.
The guy's impressed....and says so, but knows there's NO way this chick can pee farther than him.
So he drops his britches...and starts to reach for himself...and she shakes her finger at him...and says..."No Hands."

:devil:
 

RhinofromWA

Brevity R Us
Aug 16, 2001
4,622
0
Lynnwood, WA
Originally posted by Jr_Bullit
..and she shakes her finger at him...and says..."No Hands."

:devil:
That rule was not in place as the original bet was made. Any modification to the original bet (to any sufficient amount) makes a new bet that the man can now agree to or not. :) The original bet was dead the moment she modified the terms.

Sorry, ladies. ;) Men still have the peeing thing over you. In the desert all I need is to turn around....you need some sage brush. :D
 

CreeP

Monkey
Mar 8, 2002
695
0
montreal bitch
which is why i say let the woman have the rights in question. But i think one thing should come first that is the child, meaning neither party should have the right to force death on the child, at the very least if the mother wants to go through with it. As the mother she's got more responsibility.

it's so fuzzy :cool:
 

laura

DH_Laura
Jul 16, 2002
6,259
15
Glitter Gulch
Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Sorry, ladies. ;) Men still have the peeing thing over you. In the desert all I need is to turn around....you need some sage brush. :D

i don't think so. if a guy can stand next to me with his back turned and piss, i'm not going out of my way to find a bush.