[JRB]

He tried to run but Bush used some smart yet underhanded tricks to get him culled early in the primaries. Having primaries on different days in different states is BS, it gives a regional advantage to the early states, Bush played McCain like a Banjo.

One more reason I think he is a weasel. Oh well, we can try again later. Like has been said, only 4 years, unless something horrible happens. Fortunately we get to keep guns so we can off ourselves if Cheney decides to run in 08.

 

[zod]

The sad truth for the Dems is that they outnumber the Republicans in registered voters by somewhere between 50%-100%......... If they would have all gotten of their asses and voted there is no way we would have a Republican majority and a Republican President. Don't be mad at those of us who voted for the party we believe in, be mad at ALL those registered Democrats that decided they'd rather watch Jerry Springer than stand in a line for a few hours.

 

[N8 v2.0]

As much as I despise Bush with every cell of my body, Shirley's right. That's democracy for ya. If'n you don't like the results campaign for the guy you like next time around and call BS when the government does something you don't like. Rioting and demonstrating will not get the point across. Logical discussion of the facts is our only hope, something neither side did at all this year.

...and if you want a chance to win the government back, then please pull your party back from the MMoore wing and put it back in the center. Otherwise, you'll continue to lose.

 

[JRB]

I disagree entirely. I think we DID get punched in the teeth on 911, and then went on a "kill em all" spree. Something Kerry has vowed to be against.

I think we are killing the wrong "all" right now. I could be wrong though.

 

[zod]

...and if you want a chance to win the government back, then please pull your party back from the MMoore wing and put it back in the center. Otherwise, you'll continue to lose.

 

[N8 v2.0]

The sad truth for the Dems is that they outnumber the Republicans in registered overs by somewhere between 50%-100%......... If they would have all gotten of their asses and voted there is no way we would have a Republican majority and a Republican President. Don't be mad at those of us who voted for the party we believe in, be mad at ALL those registered Democrats that decided they'd rather watch Jerry Springer than stand in a line for a few hours.

A lot of Democrats have been disenfranchised by their own party and either didn't vote or voted Republican.

 

[BurlyShirley]

I think we are killing the wrong "all" right now. I could be wrong though.

Whatever. If you dont think the stabilization of Iraq will have a positive effect on the middle east, you must be high on cat sh!t. The question is whether or not we are headed in the direction of stability, and what's the right way to get there. I mean, we are there and we cant give up.

 

[JRB]

Whatever. If you dont think the stabilization of Iraq will have a positive effect on the middle east, you must be high on cat sh!t. The question is whether or not we are headed in the direction of stability, and what's the right way to get there. I mean, we are there and we cant give up.

I agree that instabiltity was in big order in Iraq, but I really could have signed off on saying Saddam was a genocidal maniac rather than a terrorist like Bin Laden. I don't think Iraq was the immediate danger. Like I said, I have no proof. The unfortunate thing is that I don't trust the current administration to give us needed proof. I think using genocide as a reason to invade would have prevented much of the separation from other countries we have suffered. It may all be about oil, truly, which none of that would have changed. I wish I knew, really.

 

[Westy]

...and if you want a chance to win the government back, then please pull your party back from the MMoore wing and put it back in the center. Otherwise, you'll continue to lose.

Ain't my party. I've said it before, I was a registurd repugnican and voted that way until 2000. With Jr at the helm I've retreated to a defensive position with the libertarians.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Ain't my party. I've said it before, I was a registurd repugnican and voted that way until 2000. With Jr at the helm I've retreated to a defensive position with the libertarians.

That's where I'd be too, if there was a viable canidate...

 

[BurlyShirley]

I agree that instabiltity was in big order in Iraq, but I really could have signed off on saying Saddam was a genocidal maniac rather than a terrorist like Bin Laden. I don't think Iraq was the immediate danger. Like I said, I have no proof. The unfortunate thing is that I don't trust the current administration to give us needed proof. I think using genocide as a reason to invade would have prevented much of the separation from other countries we have suffered. It may all be about oil, truly, which none of that would have changed. I wish I knew, really.

Loco,

Dont buy into that leftist crap so easily. Having a stable-democratic allie in the heart of the middle east and muslim world will do more for the 'war on terror' than any amount of bombing or intel work we could do from here. As oil prices continue to rise, I would think its obvious by this point that the US is not benefitting from Iraq's oil on any kind of discernable level. The "its about the oil" platform is now dead. At least to anyone capable of making an objective decision. I am through being partisan now that the election is over and we must look at the facts.

 

[Westy]

That's where I'd be too, if there was a viable canidate...

There never will be a viable candidate unless people like you give them your support. You shouldn't vote for your second choice just so you can be on the winning team.

 

[Btyler311]

Bush style democracy in action = 2 men and a woman in a room, the men say "hey lets rape her" 2-1 vote so they do it and its ok?

Yeah whatever,

We're all about to get raped.

Because the letter of the law on our system says its ok does not make it right.

That is not the intention behind our system. Its a legal abuse of the the ideals laid out in the constitution. It denotes a broken system. Our democratic system only morks when the majority are moderate. Once there is a leaning towards either extreme it becomes an extremly unfair situation ripe for abuses of the minmority.

Ty

 

[JRB]

Loco,

Dont buy into that leftist crap so easily. Having a stable-democratic allie in the heart of the middle east and muslim world will do more for the 'war on terror' than any amount of bombing or intel work we could do from here. As oil prices continue to rise, I would think its obvious by this point that the US is not benefitting from Iraq's oil on any kind of discernable level. The "its about the oil" platform is now dead. At least to anyone capable of making an objective decision. I am through being partisan now that the election is over and we must look at the facts.

The skeptic in me asks how closely related oil price increases are to the person in control of the country here. Not to be all tin foil hatted and all, but I see he has a vested interest in oil not coming back down. I thought we already had allies in the middle east. Saudi Arabia and Israel are aren't they??? Do we want the whole region??? I don't think that can happen.

 

[Btyler311]

Excuse my lousy typing.

Ty

 

[N8 v2.0]

There never will be a viable candidate unless people like you give them your support. You shouldn't vote for your second choice just so you can be on the winning team.

Well, winning with a second choice is much better than totally losing altogether.

 

[BurlyShirley]

The skeptic in me asks how closely related oil price increases are to the person in control of the country here. Not to be all tin foil hatted and all, but I see he has a vested interest in oil not coming back down. I thought we already had allies in the middle east. Saudi Arabia and Israel are aren't they??? Do we want the whole region??? I don't think that can happen.

As for your conspiracy theory, I cant help you with that, but I can say that its in the interest of whatever party is in power to keep gas prices down, as thats always a big voting issue.
Saudi Arabia is not democratic and Israel, despite having military clout, is not really on the up and up with the muslim countries, if you know what I mean.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Bush style democracy in action = 2 men and a woman in a room, the men say "hey lets rape her" 2-1 vote so they do it and its ok?

Yeah whatever,

We're all about to get raped.

Because the letter of the law on our system says its ok does not make it right.

That is not the intention behind our system. Its a legal abuse of the the ideals laid out in the constitution. It denotes a broken system. Our democratic system only morks when the majority are moderate. Once there is a leaning towards either extreme it becomes an extremly unfair situation ripe for abuses of the minmority.

Ty

Ah come on... if Kerry had won, then you'd be extolling the virtues of the 'system.'

 

[BurlyShirley]

Bush style democracy in action = 2 men and a woman in a room, the men say "hey lets rape her" 2-1 vote so they do it and its ok?

Yeah whatever,

We're all about to get raped.

Because the letter of the law on our system says its ok does not make it right.

That is not the intention behind our system. Its a legal abuse of the the ideals laid out in the constitution. It denotes a broken system. Our democratic system only morks when the majority are moderate. Once there is a leaning towards either extreme it becomes an extremly unfair situation ripe for abuses of the minmority.

Ty

Dont you understaind that YOUR definition of moderate is the problem here? You clearly have no concept of democracy.

 

[Btyler311]

Very good point Loco.

Who's daddy is an oil baron and on the payroll of the Saudis?

Ty

 

[Westy]

Well, winning with a second choice is much better than totally loosing altogether.

Your vote for Bush was like pissing in the ocean it would have meant a hell of a lot more if it went to Budnarik and would have made absolutely no difference in the outcome. If you lived in Ohio I could see you going for Bush but come on, kerry had as much chance taking weezyanna as he did banging Ann Coulter, (shudder could you imagine the gangly gaunt love child that would spawn).

 

[JRB]

As for your conspiracy theory, I cant help you with that, but I can say that its in the interest of whatever party is in power to keep gas prices down, as thats always a big voting issue.
Saudi Arabia is not democratic and Israel, despite having military clout, is not really on the up and up with the muslim countries, if you know what I mean.

Yeah it makes sense. Funny how crude was down for the election now that you mention it. I see your point with the saudis and israelis.

 

[JRB]

Very good point Loco.

Who's daddy is an oil baron and on the payroll of the Saudis?

Ty

I find tighter connections with the old man's defense executive gig if MM told the truth in his film. Seems like the defense industry has the right idea though, hiring someone with priviledged access to secret information.

 

[jmvar]

Im getting so tired of this elitist bull****. While you want to point out that somehow, Bush's voters' opinions werent as valid as those of Kerry's...you seem to forget that we live in a democracy, and that it's the government's job to express the majority's views in legislature.

SHirley, I think what worries most people on this board that are anti-Bush is that the Republicans where mislead and simply believe things about Iraq that are proven to be false. THe US did not go to war in Iraq with the pretense that it would be great to have a stable Democracy in the Middle East. Bush told the US that he posed an imediate threat. Then as the WMDs seemed like more and more of a pipe dream, other reasons magically started appearing. However it seems as though some people never realized that the WMDs were never found....

Even after the final report of Charles Duelfer to Congress saying that Iraq did not have a significant WMD program, 72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual WMD (47%) or a major program for developing them (25%). Fifty-six percent assume that most experts believe Iraq had actual WMD and 57% also assume, incorrectly, that Duelfer concluded Iraq had at least a major WMD program. Kerry supporters hold opposite beliefs on all these points.

Similarly, 75% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda, and 63% believe that clear evidence of this support has been found. Sixty percent of Bush supporters assume that this is also the conclusion of most experts, and 55% assume, incorrectly, that this was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission. Here again, large majorities of Kerry supporters have exactly opposite perceptions.

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_10_21_04.html

I think the left wing loud mouths like Mike McMoore, Al Frankenstein, Howard Stern really hurt the Democratic party in this election. It just made it easier for the Repubs to cry "liberal media lies" to anything they said. And a lot of the time they were right. I don't understand why so much focus was placed on things like Cheney's stock options when it was proven that they were donated long ago. I don't know how many times I heard Franken cry about how much money Cheney is making off his stock options when that is simply not true.

But the true blower for the Dems is the fact that they couldn't choose a more charasmatic candidate with some huevos that could beat Bush.

 

[Btyler311]

Moderate means somewhere in the middle. Not horrendously offensive to either side and capable of compromising.

Bush wants to strip the rights of half the population to make the other half happy.

He should secure all our rights.

How do you argue that allowing gays to marry erodes hetero marriages? Gays are going to be the Ngrs (I apologize for using that tem if it offends anyone but is the kind of offense we should see in this issue) of the new milenium. In 30 years we will be apalled and ashamed that we ever considered writing that into the US CONSTITUTION The first document ever to secure the rights of its populace is being turned into a device for predjudice.

How does illeagalizing abortion so that you can strip th rights of women to decide what happens to their own bodies help your side? If you are against it teach your daughters its MORALLY wrong. Moral and legal are different concepts and should stay that way. Changing the law that women fought so long and hard for only hurts the other side.

If we are going to hell its our business. We don't need the religious right to decide for us. I for one don't belive in hell any more than heaven but I would never protest your right to attend church if you wanted to. Making religion into law because you have a majority in 2 of three branches of govenment and will soon use that to secure a stacked supreme court is not right. Its IRAN. Its SHARIA, you gonna cut my head off or stone me for blaspheming next?

Because a thing can be done does not mean it should.

If you are so sure its OK just because its happening why don't you educate us on how any of these issues is ETHICALLY right, because that and not morals is what law is supposed to be based on.

Ty

 

[N8 v2.0]

SHirley, I think what worries most people on this board that are anti-Bush is that the Republicans where mislead and simply believe things about Iraq that are proven to be false. THe US did not go to war in Iraq with the pretense that it would be great to have a stable Democracy in the Middle East. Bush told the US that he posed an imediate threat. Then as the WMDs seemed like more and more of a pipe dream, other reasons magically started appearing. However it seems as though some people never realized that the WMDs were never found....

Even after the final report of Charles Duelfer to Congress saying that Iraq did not have a significant WMD program, 72% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq had actual WMD (47%) or a major program for developing them (25%). Fifty-six percent assume that most experts believe Iraq had actual WMD and 57% also assume, incorrectly, that Duelfer concluded Iraq had at least a major WMD program. Kerry supporters hold opposite beliefs on all these points.

Similarly, 75% of Bush supporters continue to believe that Iraq was providing substantial support to al Qaeda, and 63% believe that clear evidence of this support has been found. Sixty percent of Bush supporters assume that this is also the conclusion of most experts, and 55% assume, incorrectly, that this was the conclusion of the 9/11 Commission. Here again, large majorities of Kerry supporters have exactly opposite perceptions.

http://www.pipa.org/OnlineReports/Pres_Election_04/html/new_10_21_04.html

I think the left wing loud mouths like Mike McMoore, Al Frankenstein, Howard Stern really hurt the Democratic party in this election. It just made it easier for the Repubs to cry "liberal media lies" to anything they said. And a lot of the time they were right. I don't understand why so much focus was placed on things like Cheney's stock options when it was proven that they were donated long ago. I don't know how many times I heard Franken cry about how much money Cheney is making off his stock options when that is simply not true.

But the true blower for the Dems is the fact that they couldn't choose a more charasmatic candidate with some huevos that could beat Bush.

The Clinton run DNC did not want a democrat to win the White House this election. The whole thing was a sham, they chose an intept canidate with a 20 year history of not doing anything, in order to ensure that Hillary will be able to run in 2008. If I was a democrat I'd be totally pissed at the Clinton/DNC operation for thinking I was so stupid as to not see what's going on.

 

[BurlyShirley]

SHirley, I think what worries most people on this board that are anti-Bush is that the Republicans where mislead and simply believe things about Iraq that are proven to be false. THe US did not go to war in Iraq with the pretense that it would be great to have a stable Democracy in the Middle East. Bush told the US that he posed an imediate threat. Then as the WMDs seemed like more and more of a pipe dream, other reasons magically started appearing. However it seems as though some people never realized that the WMDs were never found....

How quickly we forget Jmvar, that the ENTIRE WORLD thought Saddam had WMDs. We got our intel from Russia, France, Germany and the UK to back all of this up and now that we are there, guess what? Still no one has found the missing WMDs. Im not saying that they still exist, Im just saying that they havent been accounted for. The report you cited came in the afermath of the invasion, so I dont really understand how its relevant to our struggles today. Our intel told us that Iraq was a threat and just about ALL of congress agreed that was the case after seeing the same intel.

 

[Btyler311]

Very good point jmvar.

The other one that frosts me is that now the FBI is doing an investigation into the Haliburten thing. That means its now considered a criminal situation. The FBI is not senate oversite, which would be biased anyway, they don't get involved unless its criminal. So what happens now when we find it was criminal fraud? Well nobody is gonna impeach him because partisan lines won't be breachable.

Thats totally screwed up and destroys the whole checks and balences situation.

Ty

 

[BurlyShirley]

Moderate means somewhere in the middle. Not horrendously offensive to either side and capable of compromising.

Are you honestly going to sit there and tell me that there was that much a difference between the Bush and Kerry platforms. Neither Bush nor Kerry were for gay marriages. Bush will not outlaw abortions. It will NEVER happen. Pull your head out of the liberal haze. Your qualms are completely unfounded.

 

[N8 v2.0]

As far as rioting is concerned... there's far more rioting over a sports team winning the championship than than there was over yesterday's election result.

 

[Echo]

I think the left wing loud mouths like Mike McMoore, Al Frankenstein, Howard Stern really hurt the Democratic party in this election.

Absolutely correct. Anything those morons say, I automatically discount as propoganda and bullsh!t. They are pretty much the same as N8, except fortunately for Bush, nobody outside of RM hears anything N8 says.

 

[Btyler311]

Just wait and see burly.

Kerrey was not pro gay marriage and who cares.

Bush has already stated since the election that he wants to pass a constitutional ammendment on the gay marriage issue.

It should be left alone as Kerrey would have done.

As to abortion, FL just passed the consent amendment by a landslide, and which candidate is the Born again christian with the evangelical christians in their corner.

Do you not think a very large group of them will continue to push it? Its an issue that is being pushed further and further like a fungus spreading across the country. Look at the Evolution arguments in various states. These things shouldn't even be issues but they are. And Bush is on the side of the crack pots who push them.

Stem Cel research is the most promising area going right now for the cure of a number of terrible diseases and the republicans are the only thing keeping it from moving foreward. Why? Because its "Playing God" with unborn fetuses and dabbles into cloning which is considered the same. Its all very tightly related. Its your side that wants to quell science. Get your head out of the sand.

Ty

 

[mplutodh1]

Get A Grip

 

[jmvar]

How quickly we forget Jmvar, that the ENTIRE WORLD thought Saddam had WMDs. We got our intel from Russia, France, Germany and the UK to back all of this up and now that we are there, guess what? Still no one has found the missing WMDs. Im not saying that they still exist, Im just saying that they havent been accounted for. The report you cited came in the afermath of the invasion, so I dont really understand how its relevant to our struggles today. Our intel told us that Iraq was a threat and just about ALL of congress agreed that was the case after seeing the same intel.

Be careful, we also forget that not EVERYONE thought that there were weapons.....the CIA, DIA, Department of Energy and United Nations all warned the Bush that the case for war is weak and that the WMD issues is not conclusive.

The report I cited is meant to show that even though the issues of WMDs and AL Quada ties to Iraq were refutted by Dulfer's report, lots of Repubs still saw them as true. It it relevant becasue it shows that the Dems failed to convince the public that the cases for war were shaky at best and that internal departments withing the US told the Bush admin. this.

I don't think that the Dems are dumb enough to throw Hiloreeeeeee in the fire but I guess time will tell. If they do, I think all the monkeys that called it are correct in saying they threw Kerry in this year in order to lose...

 

[-BB-]

A couple of things about Bush winning makes me laugh...

Another thing is Michael Moore and all the Hollywood kooks and rockstar idiots pushing their beliefs on the airwaves. I was and am still sick of hearing this sh!t all the time. Thanks guys you really changed the world!!!!!

QUOTE]

Are they any worse than all those ultra conservative talk radio jocks that rule the airwaves in middle america.

 

[Damn True]

Hey, Al Franken has a radio show now too! Of course nobody is listening to it.

Clearly, the American public cares not a whit about the opinion of musicians and actors.

"What the f%&k does it matter what I think? I'm an actor, a grown man that wears makeup."
~Brad Pitt

 

[zod]

I have been listening to Air America the last couple days on XM radio just to hear Franken and the rest of those doushbags whine............it's so silly I have trouble listening to them for more than a few minutes.

 

[Langer]

A couple of things about Bush winning makes me laugh...

Another thing is Michael Moore and all the Hollywood kooks and rockstar idiots pushing their beliefs on the airwaves. I was and am still sick of hearing this sh!t all the time. Thanks guys you really changed the world!!!!!

QUOTE]

Are they any worse than all those ultra conservative talk radio jocks that rule the airwaves in middle america.

No, but I can choose not to listen to them. In the last year I have heard one or more Liberal kooks with star power blasting thier opinions over the air waves. Rock stations to hip hop(thanx Puff Daddy). Rush is on AM and Orielly is on FOX. I dont listen to either? Maybe Bill Maher can go on another late night talk show and blast bush some more. Maybe ET can have both Bill Maher and Michael Moore making out while listening to Tom Morello bash bush and voice his political views. I am seriously sick of Hollywood and their pushing opinions. Though my girlfriend wont admit it, she voted for bush because she is sick of these loud mouth liberal stars. I think it was her way of telling them to F off!

Hey Hollywood, F%CK OFF. The only movies I watch now are MX, Mountain biking, skate, surf, and I only watch FUEL CHANNEL.

RANT DONEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mumble: :mumble: :mumble: :mumble: :mumble: :mumble: :mumble: :mumble:

 

[Damn True]

I have been listening to Air America the last couple days on XM radio just to hear Franken and the rest of those doushbags whine............it's so silly I have trouble listening to them for more than a few minutes.

I know.They put on their tin-foil hats within minutes.

blah blah blah diebold
blah blah blah supplemental votes

funny thing is, they never mentioned a necessity to count supplemental ballots in Wisconson where Kerry won by a smaller margin than he lost Ohio by.

 

[N8 v2.0]

You mean ErrAmerica is still around?

I thought they died in obscurity months ago....