RIP The Industry™
- Thread starter jonKranked
- Start date
Probably, yeah, sure. So what was your point? Every trail I've ridden was found AND built, at least to some extent. I don't think it was your intent, but saying they can just be found fully baked and ready to go seems to discredit that work.
I am saying that good trails are the ones where the builders take the time to route the trails to maximize the use of available natural features select challenging lines, give riders options etc. Shitty trails are the ones where people randomly pick a route on a map, bust out mini-dozers and copy and paste the same doubles and berms that can be found anywhere like it was a franchised boomer restaurant. I am not discrediting the effort of trailbuilders but noting the most important work goes into the picking the route, not the "building" that comes afterwords.
You might have a different point of view if you would have spent 300 hours building a trail, by hand, to your liking and level, and have lesser riders come in and level features and create go arounds. I have fought that battle and won. Threats have been made and taken seriously.
Amen
Built on your own property?
We had a small pumptrack made with asphalt in my town that was costed, and bloody accepted at $504000.
Word on the street is that 661 has gone quiet
Alright, trails. Don't get me started. My local "club" which is supposed to be an advocate. And wants money and volunteers. Is just a bunch of suck up pussies. And really don't do shit. And try to make it sound like they do all the shit. And in the end, just eff up trails, if anything. Whateves.
So what about manufacturing? Innovation? Getting stuff done? Distribution? All LBS's, etc.
If moar people ride. But no moar trails are created. Not cool.
But....people will probably still buy the latest 65mm bong chamber Fox suspension hop up thingy. Cuz it's cool.
So what about manufacturing? Innovation? Getting stuff done? Distribution? All LBS's, etc.
If moar people ride. But no moar trails are created. Not cool.
But....people will probably still buy the latest 65mm bong chamber Fox suspension hop up thingy. Cuz it's cool.
Thanks Seth... that's so far the most blatantly wrong statement of this entire thread.
Well done!
Well done!
Completely agree with most of this, except the part about picking one or the other as more important, because hat discounts the value of the other part. There are tons of folks who never pick up a shovel and a lot of them seem to think trails are just sitting there waiting to be "found". And there are great trails someone found but then spent tons of time working on, including the build but also getting approvals, etc. In some of those cases it probably would have been easier to build a shitty flow trail in a different location.
A lot of places on public land have a N=N policy regarding trail density, usually due to wildlife/erosion issues. Here, in general, if a new trail s created, an existing trail would be decommissioned. This is changing, and there are obvious outliers, like at Ski Resorts and Teton Pass.
Do you know how many people ride expensive bikes around that hardly or ever see real trails here in Europe? Even worse for eMTBs. Same demographic that needs a SUV or overlander vehicle to get the groceries.But....people will probably still buy the latest 65mm bong chamber Fox suspension hop up thingy. Cuz it's cool.
While I agree with you, I think trails in the US are overhyped sometimes. When I did my first ride on Alpine trail in Oakridge, OR, the statements that I read before were "better than anything in the Alps", so my expectations were really high. While the trail is awesome, I have a hard time seeing this statement to be true.Thanks Seth... that's so far the most blatantly wrong statement of this entire thread.
Well done!
So Seth's statement is partially correct, because in Europe you historically have many more ancient hiking paths that can serve as awesome biking trails. For example, in the regions where the frontlines of WWI were, there is a vast network of trails that are all pretty awesome.
Think you need to think outside of the usual Euro and North American sports culture hegemony mindset mate.
i‘m talking about old mule and smuggler paths, connecting remote settlements and countries. you neither have thoseThanks Seth... that's so far the most blatantly wrong statement of this entire thread.
Well done!
Well, technically, it was.
I was with the organization for 10 years and played a big part of the 300 acres land purchase. So the trails that I've built were approved and on protected land. I left the organization 4 years ago and since then a new breed of geriatric took over and are now modifying trails to suit their lack of abilities.
Can't tell if your use of "bloody" is intended to portray your disdain or joy?
Depending on size, location and expertise of the track construction company cost doesn't sound all that outrageous to me for a professionally built and designed asphalt pumptrack in 2025
This is my local Velosolutions track.
Think the final cost was somewhere around £100000 five years ago.
funded by a local parent group who found they had some money left over after fundraising to upgrading the kids play park next to the waste ground the pumptrack has new been built on. They didn't really know what to spend it on but had an idea about building a bmx track. I spoke with Lyndsey the chairperson and explained to her that a professionally built pumptrack would cost a bit more but be a far more versatile project and a far better use of their money. We had various meetings with the community and the council and once the idea had taken root, They raised awareness of the need for the pumptrack and applied for a council and national lottery grants. a year or so later the track was built.
it's an amazing addition to the local community.
opening day vid
The last page of this thread reads like a yawnfest of old folk spouting shit about what they like to ride best and moaning about what they don't.
Maybe I'm just lucky enough to live reasonably close to a massive variety of riding where respectfully sharing it isn't really a problem.
I get your point. But this is the opposite situation. They took an established trail and completely bulldozed it, and brought it up "au gout du jour". It's on a mildly inclined ridge, and the old trail pretty much followed the natural contours of the ridge, with a few slabby outcroppings you could roll over/pump down. They took that, put crushed stone as the trail surface, and a bunch of swoopy berms that don't really follow the flow of the trail. It used to be fun going down and a bit of a challenge going up. There were no issues with user conflict (bikers going in both directions and/or hikers) because the lines of sight were good, and it was easy to slow down. The new layout is full of blind corners, and very tight berms that aren't high enough to carry speed. the crushed stone surface compounds the issue. and going up now doesn't require any skill, just a good engine (or e-motor). For perspective, beforehand, you could ride it on a gravel bike with proper fat tires. it would have been jarring, but doable. Now you can do it on a $200 Canadian Tire city hybrid. I see it a few times a year.
It really angers me that they put so much effort and resources into ruining the trail. These are public funds, and they didn't really think about what the majority of users want, they pretty much focused on the desires of a few beginners and retirees who don't know how to ride (I know this because I actually showed up to some "dig days"). It angers me even more that they aren't recognizing the error of their original design, and allowing the trail to return to its more natural flow.
I know what you are saying (and where you are located), but still the argument stands: historically, many more people were living in Europe, many more alpine towns existing and many of those were only accessible on foot/horseback until fairly recently. Then we had smuggle and WWI. Hence there is a really large network of trails in existence.Think you need to think outside of the usual Euro and North American sports culture hegemony mindset mate.
Not saying that awesome trails do not exist in other places and some of them are fairly old too, but the vast amount of trails in alpine terrain can hardly be matched by any other region that I know of. But please enlighten me, I could be wrong.
I think most of the good trails Seth is talking about are on swiss, austrian, italian and french ground.Ah, the Germans and their 'superior' everything...
I think what he's saying is that it's because of history that they have awesome trails. not that the history is what makes the trails awesome. This is a neat little read. This one is more modern, but equally interesting.
having hiked some of those "7000 year old" trails (though I think it's probably closer to 2000-3000 years ago), I have to agree that the quantity and quality of those little known, and little publicized trails are awesome. I haven't encountered anything similar on this continent (though in South America there's amazing ones too). Not saying they don't exist here, just that I haven't found them or ridden them.
Hey @Gary
We've got a new Velosolutions track. It's probably twice that size with lots of options.
Question: Do you do it directional? Ours doesn't say anything about direction. Not that it really matters, but one guy said you enter the berms where the red line has "this" like the white thing. Which I thought that would be the exit. IDK.
Like I said, it doesn't really matter.
Just trying to get some other's perspectives.
We've got a new Velosolutions track. It's probably twice that size with lots of options.
Question: Do you do it directional? Ours doesn't say anything about direction. Not that it really matters, but one guy said you enter the berms where the red line has "this" like the white thing. Which I thought that would be the exit. IDK.
Like I said, it doesn't really matter.
Just trying to get some other's perspectives.
thing is, a trailbuilder always has bikes in his mind when building natural trails, but they would never make trails as awkwardly techy as some century old non bike trails are. and that’s the beauty of these types of trails. those trails evolved over time, eroded and can’t be used anymore like they were originally intended (to transport goods from the valley floor up to the small settlements, alps etc way above the mountains, with mules, bulls and/or carts). but the erosion has made them interesting through their randomness. a purposeful build trails doesn‘t have this randomness.
clear now what i mean?
You really are. Scotland's attitude towards outdoor activities and trails sounds amazing.
The old (ancient) pathways and trails in the Japanese mtns were an absolute blast to ride. So much rocky steep jank. Of course, there was the occasional hike-a-bike too. The best part was is that, bc of the history as a kind of infrastructure, they typically ran from town to town, which meant train access.
I really enjoyed those trails, but I also really enjoy bike specific trails.
What were we talking about, again?
I really enjoyed those trails, but I also really enjoy bike specific trails.
What were we talking about, again?
I do love trails that go somewhere and serve a purpose. It was neat to go to the castle earlier this week. Turns out it’s from the 11the century!
on our local vs pumptrack the accepted flow is in a counter clockwise route (coming out to the right and dropping in from there the redbull tent on the bottom is in the pic).
No. The beauty of a well designed velo solutions track is that it's completely open for interpretation, new gaps n lines. Even for the very best riders.
Etiquette is closer to a skate park but because it's often full of little kids there's less elitism.
The red line seem to just be more of a line of sight/point of reference thing and *probably* also helps keep beginners on track.
Here you can see young Logan riding it in both directions. There are also plenty gap/transfers which would change your direction
Logan Taylor on Instagram: "pump track been going good lately - @_robertson_law_ @dylan.mtb__ "
logantaylormtb on May 8, 2024: "pump track been going good lately - @_robertson_law_ @dylan.mtb__ ".
www.instagram.com
Logan Taylor on Instagram: "pump trackin - @eyra_clothing @thebicycleworks_uk"
logantaylormtb on February 17, 2024: "pump trackin - @eyra_clothing @thebicycleworks_uk".
www.instagram.com
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