[norbar]

I know it's not DH related but since it's the only bike section that's alive I'll ask it here. I've noticed recently that I get lower average rolling speeds on my old road bike (you know, the typical hipster bs 80s road bike) than on my trailbike. Now I'm trying to find the reason behind this. The only reason for having a road bike is because it's faster than a trailbike (well that and because who doesn't want more bikes?) so this annoys me.

Any suggestions you may have?

So far I've noticed that the road bike is a bit too big and the wheels are heavy. Though it still seems strange since wheels should affect acceleration but with lower rolling resistance I should be able to get higher speeds. So can my conti super sport tires be too soft? (They are soft) or is it some drive train problem I'm not noticing?

 

[slimshady]

Have you considered the biomechanical aspect of the issue? Maybe your posture over the hipster bike isn't as natural to you as on your trail one. Flexing the glutes on old, square geometry road frames takes some adaptation.

 

[norbar]

Have you considered the biomechanical aspect of the issue? Maybe your posture over the hipster bike isn't as natural to you as on your trail one. Flexing the glutes on old, square geometry road frames takes some adaptation.

I owned the road bike for over 2 years. The frame may have some wonky sizing. Another thing I suspect may be some weird gap in gear ratios around cruising speed.

 

[dump]

Any road bike on the road slower than a trail bike with mtb tires? Does not compute. You’re doing it wrong.

 

[Gary]

WTF is an average rolling speed?

 

[Gary]

So long as you're not running stupidly soft pressures in them, road tyres (on the road) should have way less rolling resistance than trail mtb tyres. (even heavy road tyres like your old contis). Assuming the bike isn't fucked at higher speeds the main thing stopping you going faster on a roadbike is wind resistance
How are the hub bearings/freewheel and BB and what state is the chain on the 30+yr old roadbike?


or does your trail bike have a 250w motor that assists to beyond 30mph like mine does?

 

[mykel]

...or does your trail bike have a 250w motor that assists to beyond 30mph like mine does?

No, I don't think he is riding a motorcycle.
I think you may be lost.
I do believe you have the wrong forum.
This one is about bicycles. They are powered solely by the rider.
May I suggest you visit a place with like minded individuals.

 

[norbar]

WTF is an average rolling speed?

Just the speed you are crusing around. Tried to come up with a good term for it.

 

[norbar]

So long as you're not running stupidly soft pressures in them, road tyres (on the road) should have way less rolling resistance than trail mtb tyres. (even heavy road tyres like your old contis). Assuming the bike isn't fucked at higher speeds the main thing stopping you going faster on a roadbike is wind resistance
How are the hub bearings/freewheel and BB and what state is the chain on the 30+yr old roadbike?


or does your trail bike have a 250w motor that assists to beyond 30mph like mine does?

Tires are not heavy. They are new tires. They are just super sticky as compared to most road tires I have tried (continental super sports)

Also the drivetrain is 2 years old. I've borrowed it to a friend for 6 months (the bike, not the drivetrain) so he might have been not nice to it during that time but it should not be super old.


Hubs and bearings and bb are cheap but not old either (I've just noticed the rear wheel has some drag in the hub mechanism)

 

[norbar]

Any road bike on the road slower than a trail bike with mtb tires? Does not compute. You’re doing it wrong.

I know but I want to know what.

 

[Jm_]

Limiting factor on the road is wind resistance. Find a buddy to draft. Lifehack: use a panel truck.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

Dragging brakes?

 

[Bikael Molton]

dragging brakes, tire pressures, gummed up freewheel.

If bike is upside down or on work stand, the wheels should spin for a minute +, rather than seconds, unless bearings are bad or brand new and overpacked with grease.

Are the tires not only sticky but super wide for some weirdo reason?
Pumped to 80+ PSI, any road tire should be way faster than any MTB.

 

[kidwoo]

It might be because road bikes suck. Something to think about.

 

[Westy]

80's bearings are probably right buggered

 

[norbar]

dragging brakes, tire pressures, gummed up freewheel.

If bike is upside down or on work stand, the wheels should spin for a minute +, rather than seconds, unless bearings are bad or brand new and overpacked with grease.

Are the tires not only sticky but super wide for some weirdo reason?
Pumped to 80+ PSI, any road tire should be way faster than any MTB.

Brakes are not dragging, tire pressure is fine. Tires are narrow.

 

[norbar]

80's bearings are probably right buggered

Look up. New hubs. The rear is a bit off and requires a change but it still doesn't explain that.

 

[slimshady]

 

[Mo(n)arch]

I' d say wrong measurement method.
Bring both bikes to straight hill. Go down said hill with both bikes WITHOUT pedaling. Measure end speed. Make diagnosis.
If you are slower on the roadbike, hubs or brakes are the problem. Otherwise it's you, respectively the gearing of the bikes.

 

[HardtailHack]

Are you stopping for coffee on the road bike?

 

[norbar]

I' d say wrong measurement method.
Bring both bikes to straight hill. Go down said hill with both bikes WITHOUT pedaling. Measure end speed. Make diagnosis.
If you are slower on the roadbike, hubs or brakes are the problem. Otherwise it's you, respectively the gearing of the bikes.

I am leaning towards the frame being too big. The tires are too sticky and the rear hub has some drag but that can't be a huge problem so it must be the sizing. I thought it was slightly too big but maybe the problem is bigger than I thought.

I get that my measurement is not super scientific but I should not be having all my city PR's on my trailbike.

 

[StiHacka]

Roll it nao?

 

[Katz]

....the rear hub has some drag but that can't be a huge problem...

It can be, so I found out on my last bike. Particularly if your average rolling speed includes fair amount of coasting.

 

[Sandwich]

This is the most vague question ever. It's like the guy who goes to the shop for a squeak in his car.

My guess is your hub bearings are shot. Maybe not in the stand, but sometimes if you add weight, the wheels slow down. Could be a broken or bent axle, or just flex in the frame that is causing things to bind. I suggest doing a roll test and seeing which bike is faster...shouldn't be hard to do between speedometer or even feel.

Otherwise it could be your drivetrain if it's not actually bearings. Chain wear, binding, BB bearings. It's pretty hard to diagnose when you say "my shit is slow" rather than "my bike rolls slower" or "my bike is suffering from drivetrain drag" as those are easier to test and figure out.

 

[norbar]

This is the most vague question ever. It's like the guy who goes to the shop for a squeak in his car.

My guess is your hub bearings are shot. Maybe not in the stand, but sometimes if you add weight, the wheels slow down. Could be a broken or bent axle, or just flex in the frame that is causing things to bind. I suggest doing a roll test and seeing which bike is faster...shouldn't be hard to do between speedometer or even feel.

Otherwise it could be your drivetrain if it's not actually bearings. Chain wear, binding, BB bearings. It's pretty hard to diagnose when you say "my shit is slow" rather than "my bike rolls slower" or "my bike is suffering from drivetrain drag" as those are easier to test and figure out.

I have not tested it but it feels like rolling is the issue over drivetrain. The hug bearings idea is a good shot. I will spend some time with the bike over the weekend

 

[Sandwich]

why don't you try swapping in a different set of wheels? Even if they are 26ers or don't have functional brakes. You should be able to feel the sensation of increased rolling speed just with different wheels.

I had a set of road bike disc wheels that rolled terribly. The bearings were a little grainy in hand but I can only imagine what that translated to. Now I have just cheapo novatecs and they are fantastic- the difference is noticeable.

 

[Toshi]

Re skinny vs wideish tires, tire pressure, and rolling resistance:

What is the optimal tire pressure for gravel?

We went to the laboratory (and the dirt roads) to figure out whether low tire pressure is not only more comfortable but also faster.

www.velonews.com

On my commuter bike I followed the lead of this article and dropped down to 30 psi. (Admittedly this is with 700 x 47 mm tires so probably too much for you.)

 

[dump]

I think we have learned something about Norbar today.

 

[OGRipper]

Not very scientific here, sounds like you're going on feel and total ride time with lots of variables, correct?

If you're talking pure "rolling" speed (vs. pedaling, climbing, etc.), the only difference size should make is aerodynamics. Your road bike should be more aero, but if you've got some wonky sizing going on you could be more upright than your trail bike, resulting in more drag. (This assumes everything checks out mechanically.)

Also, road bikes are sketchy (especially if yours has rim brakes), so it could be as simple as holding speed better at various points, braking later, etc.

 

[Gary]

With a decent experienced road rider on board roadbikes aren't sketchy on roads at all. and are way faster descending than mountainbikes. rim brakes are absolutely fine too.

Get a half descent roadbike from this century that fits you @norbar .

 

[OGRipper]

With a decent experienced road rider on board roadbikes aren't sketchy on roads at all. and are way faster descending than mountainbikes. rim brakes are absolutely fine too.

Thanks Dad.

Sorry but a drop-bar, high-post, skinny-tire road bike is more sketchy than a trail bike when it comes to handling. And rim brakes might be fine, but discs are far better, especially on carbon rims. I know this from personal experience. But don't take my word for it: They just had this little race in France. Some dude in a yellow shirt quickly erased a deficit on a descent in part because he had disc brakes and could brake later.

 

[Gary]

Sorry but a drop-bar, high-post, skinny-tire road bike is more sketchy than a trail bike when it comes to handling.

Except. You won't even get close to the same speeds on the road on a trail bike so how exactly do you.... you know...

know this from personal experience.

 

[Sandwich]

Uh...I don't really know what's going on in this thread other than yet another gary pissing match, but I have both a carbon rimmed skinny tire disc road bike and a carbon rimmed fat tired mountain bike and the road bike is infinitely faster on the road but is nowhere near as stable going downhill. They both roll fast...honestly my MTB is exceptional compared to virtually all other bikes I've ridden, but the low drag tires and aero position is just better on the road. Disc brakes were largely a waste- I just wanted to be able to run cheap open mold chinese aero carbon rims without worrying about braking performance, but a good set of rim brakes would probably be fine too. I think Norbar's just got a shitty old bike and is likely comparing it to a nice new one, and that's just not really fair.

 

[toodles]

If they're brand new wheels sometimes they'll roll a bit slowly till the seals and shit bed in if they're cheaper and using crappy rubber seals. Aside from that, make sure you're not toning down the manliness of the DH forum by discussing enduro bikes in here. Road, CX and e-bikes are fine. But definitely not single crown DH bikes.

 

[norbar]

If they're brand new wheels sometimes they'll roll a bit slowly till the seals and shit bed in if they're cheaper and using crappy rubber seals. Aside from that, make sure you're not toning down the manliness of the DH forum by discussing enduro bikes in here. Road, CX and e-bikes are fine. But definitely not single crown DH bikes.

There is no such thing as a single crown dh bike. It's like calling something that includes pineapples pizza.

 

[norbar]

I think we have learned something about Norbar today.

Mostly that road bikes confuse me

 

[dump]

Found a pic of Norbar out for a ride on his road bike

 

[OGRipper]

Except. You won't even get close to the same speeds on the road on a trail bike so how exactly do you.... you know...

Thanks for twisting my words. I said I know from personal experience that disc brakes are better than rim brakes, especially on carbon rims. You disagree? Among other things you can brake later, heat doesn't build up as much on long descents, and rain has less of an impact. Minimal weight penalty (which can be partially offset by lighter rims), and unlike others I'm not worried about injury from a rotor. So, better.

Certainly a road bike should be faster purely in terms of aerodynamics and rolling resistance. I don't think anyone here is arguing that. That's why we all are guessing something is wrong with Norbar's bike.

 

[norbar]

Found a pic of Norbar out for a ride on his road bike

Funny enough I have an unreasonably large helmet so this is kind of on point.

 

[Sandro]

Could it be that you conducted the test on your trail bike after you shaved your mane?