It's a well established fact everywhere except below the Mason-Dixon Line that the Double Barrel does not work well on a Sunday in its current state.
Glad some one knows. Will edit my first post lol
are you 100 percent sure about that?
Everything is "supposed" to be awesome, why bother giving input if you have nothing whatsoever to back it up with.
I guess knowing how the shock is valved and how it works and having ridden several double barrels and knowing that the vivid is very very similar makes my input null and void. I was suggesting the vivid since I am so impressed with the performance of the double barrel but the double barrel does not work on the Sunday because of the way the valving is. The vivid is supposed to be very similar shock to the cane creek. The price tag is also much less.
General layout does not equal the same valving. I am also aware of how both shocks work and have talked to the RS techs in reasonable depth about the Vivid. Having the same full-circuit flow thing doesn't mean that much (especially since they kind of left out the fairly critical near-positive displacement thing the CC has, and the rebound circuit works very differently), and at the end of the day no amount of theorising about a shock's general layout (which is different enough from the CC to not infringe on the patents for starters) is going to prove a thing if you haven't actually RIDDEN it.
Has anyone actually put a CCDB on a Sunday and said that the settings don't have a big enough range or is this just the opinion of one guy (Lars Tribus)?
Do a search, there are plenty of people on here who have tried it--both official iron horse riders and not--no one liked the performace and there are more than enough posts on the topic already. of course, this excludes the CC fan club from deliverance-way who still insist it will not only work, but polish your helmet and wash your race gear as well. I'm sure it's possible to make it work like a charm, but CC has yet to produce one with any varied internals that perform anywhere near as well as the Sunday tuned DHX and--presumably--the Vivid.
what exactly are you trying to say here?
The Vivid is that new - still hasn't been used that much by the general public.Right on all counts except for Dave and I being on them all year. I never had one of my own, just rode around on Todd and Duncan's bikes. they use a heavier spring than me but it didn't feel drastically different from my DHX. the Sunday works best with very minimal lowspeed compression damping (or compression damping in general, really), and that's how I've always liked my shocks to feel since way back in the lat 90's. I'm petty sure i could go back and forth from a Vivid to a DHX without really noticing the difference, though i've been waiting 10 years for someone to make a shock with the Vivid's rebound control; i guess that makes the RS a winner by a bee's d*ck in my book.The Vivid should be a very promising shock for the Sunday - Sam and Sabo have both been on one for most of the 07' race season as well as the Trump Twins (General Lee being one of them). I haven't had any saddle time on a Vivid either, but the info about beginning and end stroke control that General Lee talks about as it relates to track set-up is probably the most in-depth info out there right now.
As far as I know there are still tuning options from RS BUT - since it's still early on in production and distribution, everyone is still getting up to speed on that.
Both the Vivid and the DHX have similar damping characteritics - it's just that they do it in different ways (air chamber bottom-out control vs. bottom-out bumpers, etc.)
Lee - how did you like it for East-Coast rocky stuff? Comparisons to the DHX? Weren't you and Dave on DHX's at the Open at the beginning of this season?
every single dhx sent to PUSH for use on a Sunday that I've tried feels like someone reinstalled all the compression damping DW had Fox take out in the first place. I would recommend no such service, nor is it necessary. Off the top of my head I can recall at least 5 'PUSHED' Sundays with unhappy owners. What's up with people recommending that company as if it is the holy grail of suspension tuning yet they haven't a clue as to what their advice translates to in any real application.
Sorry, but i don't think the Vivid is all you don't know too much about. I haven't come across a shock in the past 10 years that required more than a vice, crescent wrench, possibley an allen key, and an air pump to completely tear down and reassemble.
Wow...that's news to us. If IronHorse riders were unhappy with our tunes they sure haven't contacted us for a retune to make it more to their liking. As for our familiarity with the Sunday, we used riders from the Honda/IronHorse team for a full season as well as well known IronHorse employees for all of the initial testing and setup. The build that we came up with for that bike was not "generic" by any means. We use a very specific linear/digressive piston configuration designed to compliment the low initial curve of that bike. I'd say that my relationship with DW and our discussions regarding ideal shock setup, as well as more than half a dozen different DW-Link Leverage files and three bikes at our facility makes us pretty well versed on that application.
At least we're talking about some of the same people then. I've ridden a few of those very shocks. But I've got nothing against PUSH; honest. once in a while the hype needs to be kept in check or at least offered with a disclaimer. I think what you are doing is important and useful for many. In fact, had i not switched to a Sunday last season i would have been sending my dhx in from my 224. i'll come knocking again when you have something out there for us boxxer owners. something not made out of plastic, a useful range of adjustment perhaps, a damper that doesn't leak?
they come with the DHX and as far as I know the first set of 08 frames have the same lower link than the 07s.
On a theoretical basis at least, I'm inclined to agree with you. Low speed compression isn't only useful for reducing pedal bob. The leverage rate complicates things a bit because you increase the shaft speed all the time - which means that even if the shock is valved to have 33% as much LSC, it'll still have a wheel rate of about 42% of a bike with a 3:1 leverage ratio anyway. It also means the threshold between "high" and "low" speeds changes.
If by 100% you mean its sitting in my hand right now?
The same could be said about their forks 3 seasons ago. And now...Seeing as how Rockshox has never put out a Rear Shock I've considered even halfway decent...
I'm skeptical.
i get what you mean with getting high shaft speeds with the lower leverage. but the whole claim is that it need 1/3rd of the compression, doesn't say LS or HS compression.
Actually if my memory serves me correctly, DW did say the shocks (not the wheel rate) required around 1/3 the LOW speed compression damping because the necessity of it for pedalling purposes was now gone. I could be wrong, but that's what was stuck in my head. A few people I know (including the Aussie Fox distributor) say there's no diff between the Sundays and anything else regarding the DHX tune (at least in compression) so it might be true, but shim stacks have much less effect on the low speed compression than the high. I'd be interested to know the specifics but DW never answers direct questions.
Yea, agree. Not very scientific, if that´s what you mean. But the man´s (S.J.) been around testing pro-bikes for a while... So, he´s words are always kind of intesting.
a 300 spring would be 'correct' for Sam's weight. wouldn't be surprised at all if he ran more comp. damping. i can blow through mine pretty easily and i'm the same weight. i can think of a few instances where a little more lsc would feel good, especially when cornering but for the most part it's spot on for me. of course i'm also a slow-poke compared to Hill and the speed he carries down a track. don't think i could run my current settings if i was generating that much speed on world cup tracks; the bike would sit way too low in its travel.
