[Biscuit]

FWIW - I've been using Redline synthetic suspension oil. I wanted a slightly lighter feel on my Sunday and ended up with a 3:1 mix of their Extra Light (2.5wt) and Like Water.

Redline doesn't classify their oils by weight, which is proper. The real index is by viscosity.. which you can look up in charts if your AR, or you can just trust their ballparks of 2.5, 5, 7.5, etc.

IMO Redline and Royal Purple make the best oils on the market, they are easy to get, you can buy direct, and it's cheap (compared to oil in a bike shop).

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp?subCategoryID=9

 

[Biscuit]

And, I changed my oil using a syring. Never again. It was a total pain.

It would be well worth the time and effort to set up a small tupperware of oil to submerge the reservoir in. That way you can pre-mix your oil and just store it that way, making each oil change easier.

 

[dandurston]

So how often should the oil be changed? Is once a season fine?

Also, are there two versions of the Roco TST (ie. Roco TST and the Roco TST R) or are they both the same thing? I imagine they're all the same but the Roco I just bought was listed as the "Roco TST" and I just want to make sure it's not a weaksauce version like getting a DHX 4.0. It would suck if it didn't have the rebound adjustment.

 

[jonKranked]

Biscuit has the right idea... moto-x oil is the way to go.

In terms of how often it should be changed, Marz tech recommends about every 50 hours of riding. For some people that'd be once a season, for some people that'll be 3 or more times a season. I raced on my roco starting in June and I cycled it twice (when I first got it to top it off, then again late August, I'm gonna do it again before season starts back up).

Dan - you can't just look in and tell if there's an air pocket, the hole is about 3/16" in diameter. You'll be able to tell by the way it feels on the bike. What offtheedge means by a top-out knock is that after the shock rebounds, it will make a knocking sound because the rebound cycle runs out of oil to move through the valve, and air will start moving through. It essentially creates a dead spot when the shock main shaft is extended all the way out.

Also, I am on the '06 Roco RC (rebound and compression adjustments). From the looks of things on marz's website the TST R lacks true compression adjustment. (there doesn't appear to be an TST, even for OEM)

 

[Biscuit]

Also, I am on the '06 Roco RC (rebound and compression adjustments). From the looks of things on marz's website the TST R lacks true compression adjustment. (there doesn't appear to be an TST, even for OEM)

The RC has high speed compression adjustment. Low speed can only be adjusted through oil weight.

TST is not "true" compression adjustment, but a 5-click adjuster that adjusts the compression for various terrain (tst = terrain selection technology.. clever). I have no idea if it's high or low speed compression, but my gut tells me it's mostly low speed, so it works like pro-pedal.

 

[jonKranked]

Do you know of any differences between the 06 Roco RC and the 07 Roco RC World Cup? I noticed the main shock body is beefed up a bit, but are there any changes to the internals?

 

[dandurston]

Someone else likely knows a lot better than I do but one difference is that some bits are made out of 'alloy' instead of 'steel' or whatever it was before to save a bit of weight.

 

[Brian Peterson]

Alloy shaft and body for 07... No internal changes...

Brian

 

[dandurston]

Does Marzocchi sell a 500 x 2.0 Ti spring? According to the shock guide on Marzocchi's USA site they do but I have no idea how to go about confirming this and getting more info like the price. It's part # 5141472.

http://www.marzocchi.com/spa/mtb/pdf/Rear-Shock-Springs-UK.pdf

 

[Brian Peterson]

We have been working with a vendor, but the pricing has been an issue...

Brian

 

[WBC]

Are the Spring diameters compatible with Fox or Manitou Springs? Marzocchi proprietary? Is performing a "Sunday Tune" with lighter oil absolutely necessary for solid performance?

Marzocchi really needs to get on making their customer service better. I like what they make now, even though their 04-05 stuff was pretty bad, but their CS is absolute crap. I have been working in shops for going on 6 years, and have run a bunch of marz forks...and never once have I felt like they cared about the consumer or felt like they had a duty to provide product support. Every single other suspension manufacturer is leaps and bounds ahead of marzocchi.

 

[Brian Peterson]

DHX and Progressive springs are compatible with the ROCO...

As far as tuning for the Sunday, I haven't heard anything specific for a revalve. The ROCO already uses a 2.5wt shock fluid.

Brian

 

[Biscuit]

Are the Spring diameters compatible with Fox or Manitou Springs? Marzocchi proprietary? Is performing a "Sunday Tune" with lighter oil absolutely necessary for solid performance?

Marzocchi really needs to get on making their customer service better. I like what they make now, even though their 04-05 stuff was pretty bad, but their CS is absolute crap. I have been working in shops for going on 6 years, and have run a bunch of marz forks...and never once have I felt like they cared about the consumer or felt like they had a duty to provide product support. Every single other suspension manufacturer is leaps and bounds ahead of marzocchi.

A "sunday tune" is not necessary at all. It worked absolutely awesome right out of the box.
I was changing the oil and thought I would play around with lightening it a bit, so I tried a 3:1 mix of Redlines 2.5wt and Like Water. Now it's even better.

Out of the box I had the high speed comp all the way out with no issues.
With the lighter oil I have the high speed comp a few turns in to avoid bottoming.

You do need to remove the compression adjuster so the lower link doesn't hit it (on my '05.. the new ones may clear). And I had to sand a little mohawk on the upper head so it didn't rub the upper link. You'll see if you get one, it's pretty simple.

And FWIW, I have a 888rc2x and the Roco WC on my sunday and it is the most balanced, dialed bike I have ever ridden. Everyone I let play on it comes back raving.


As far as zocchi's customer service goes; I can't really comment since I've never needed it.

I will say that their manuals suck. And it's pathetic that in order to rebuild a shock that they market as "completely user servicable" I have to search internet forums rather than pulling it off their website.

Sram/Rockshox has stepped up their cust service big time in the past two years. They have become very customer friendly. Everyone in the industry could learn a few things from them.

 

[dandurston]

Another Roco TST question...what colour is it? On Marzocchi's site it really looks copper but on pics of guys rides it looks red like the 06 Roco. Can anyone who's seen it clear this up?

 

[davep]

Marzocchi really needs to get on making their customer service better. I like what they make now, even though their 04-05 stuff was pretty bad, but their CS is absolute crap. I have been working in shops for going on 6 years, and have run a bunch of marz forks...and never once have I felt like they cared about the consumer or felt like they had a duty to provide product support. Every single other suspension manufacturer is leaps and bounds ahead of marzocchi.

Your comments were just totaly ignored...what a surprise.

I am with you %110. I just replaced my small bike fork with a non Marz and when the 888's time is up I will be looking firstly at any other company. They are making the assumption that everyone (american) who buys a fork or shock is too stupid to tune it or do maintainance. Soon those type of people will be the only ones buying marz products. It is unforgivable that this type of thread even needs to exist....every aspect of every marz product is left to guessing by the consumer....


Tech info is not even made available to SHOPS! The last Marz tech CD I have seen available was '03....WTF???

 

[jonKranked]

um, have you ever tried calling them? Every time I've spoken with them on the phone (as a consumer, and even when I worked at shops) regarding tuning stuff, they were always really helpful and answered my questions 100%.

Ps this is a ROCO tuning/information thread. if you wanna diss on their CS fine go right ahead, just don't go posting a bunch of crap in a thread thats on another topic and already full of useful information and legitimate questions. Any mods wanna trim these posts?

 

[WBC]

I brought this up because an employee from their company is looking at the thread. I am honestly hoping that with enough representation of our demand as riders, Marzocchi will accomodate us...especially when their forks are as expensive as they are.

I honestly think that their forks work really well for heavier riders like myself, I like the feel of their forks and generally their build.

But I'm willing to give it all up and ride something that doesn't work as well just so I can be supported with my technical requests.

Furthermore, I should not have to call marzocchi to figure something out that should be simple. I don't even have to with Manitou...

 

[dandurston]

I've dealth with Marz. CS 2 or 3 times and they've always been very helpful. They were able to get me a rare, out of production damper for an old fork for a very reasonable price.

Anyways, can anyone answer my question on the Roco TST colour? Is it red or copper? Thanks.

 

[Brian Peterson]

Your comments were just totaly ignored...what a surprise.

I am with you %110. I just replaced my small bike fork with a non Marz and when the 888's time is up I will be looking firstly at any other company. They are making the assumption that everyone (american) who buys a fork or shock is too stupid to tune it or do maintainance. Soon those type of people will be the only ones buying marz products. It is unforgivable that this type of thread even needs to exist....every aspect of every marz product is left to guessing by the consumer....


Tech info is not even made available to SHOPS! The last Marz tech CD I have seen available was '03....WTF???

Yeah, I side stepped it.. I am over playing whipping boy for every anti Marz guy on the Internet... Try making a phone call to tech... They are busy, you have to hold for a few minutes.. 800-227-5579.

As far as tech info for dealers, if they ask our tech department for the info, they get a really useful web address and a password to access the site.

I'm out..

Brian

 

[Bikael Molton]

Even if Marzo didn't have a CS department or tech info or manuals... I still wouldn't even consider a Manitou.

 

[davep]

As far as tech info for dealers, if they ask our tech department for the info, they get a really useful web address and a password to access the site.

I'm out..

Brian

WOW cool, that is the very first that I have heard of this, thanks for the info.

 

[eater]

i hafe buyed today a roco wc for my cannondale perp, after i mountet to the bike and drive around. the shock make this nois (schlurrrrfffff) when hi rebound ! now i hafe let out the air and than the oil... now wich oil i need! syntetic or non syntetic? is the none syntetic a mineral oil like the magura blod? how and where i find the right oil?
when i refill the new oil, with wath i fill up??

i hafe not find any pictured or none pictured manual for this work..
thanks for all help, because the first seat down on the roco was so diffrent to the stock fox van!!

 

[vitox]

WOW cool, that is the very first that I have heard of this, thanks for the info.

yes and i would say this thing brian is talking about as being EXTREMELY, not "very" useful.


as for the roco TST color: same as roco WC

RC to WC differences: shaft (like brian said) and also the shape of the rebound eyelet differs slightly, and the rebound adjuster has a different shape.

fluid used in the ROCO and in in TST cartridges is called "aeroshell type 41" i have successfully used 2,5wt, also tried 10wt as an experiment but that led to evident compression spiking.

 

[vitox]

i hafe buyed today a roco wc for my cannondale perp, after i mountet to the bike and drive around. the shock make this nois (schlurrrrfffff) when hi rebound ! now i hafe let out the air and than the oil... now wich oil i need! syntetic or non syntetic? is the none syntetic a mineral oil like the magura blod? how and where i find the right oil?
when i refill the new oil, with wath i fill up??

i hafe not find any pictured or none pictured manual for this work..
thanks for all help, because the first seat down on the roco was so diffrent to the stock fox van!!

eater, did your shock lose the oil or did you let it out?

 

[eater]

Originally Posted by eater
i hafe buyed today a roco wc for my cannondale perp, after i mountet to the bike and drive around. the shock make this nois (schlurrrrfffff) when hi rebound ! now i hafe let out the air and than the oil... now wich oil i need! syntetic or non syntetic? is the none syntetic a mineral oil like the magura blod? how and where i find the right oil?
when i refill the new oil, with wath i fill up??

i hafe not find any pictured or none pictured manual for this work..
thanks for all help, because the first seat down on the roco was so diffrent to the stock fox van!!
-------------------------------------------

i let it out the oil, like it is written on the first three site of this tread.

 

[Biscuit]

i let it out the oil, like it is written on the first three site of this tread.

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp?subCategoryID=9

This is the oil I use. You want 2.5wt. I was unable to find any in my local bike and moto shops, so I just ordered a bunch direct from Redline.

Good luck.

 

[eater]

http://www.redlineoil.com/products_coolant.asp?subCategoryID=9

This is the oil I use. You want 2.5wt. I was unable to find any in my local bike and moto shops, so I just ordered a bunch direct from Redline.

Good luck.

are there a problem if you take syntetic or no syntetic oil? the redline on yoer link is a syntetic oil. how i refill the shock??

 

[Biscuit]

are there a problem if you take syntetic or no syntetic oil? the redline on yoer link is a syntetic oil.

The big thing is the weight. You must use 2.5wt. If you use heavier you will damage the shock.

Functionally, I doubt there is a huge difference between synthetic and non-synthetic suspension fluids. But to be honest, I don't even know of anyone who makes non-synthetic suspension fluids. Suspension is something you want dialed, I wouldn't mess around with cheap stuff.

 

[jonKranked]

eater - to refill the shock you must use a submersion bath in order to keep air out of the system. fill a tub or bucket up with enough oil to not only fill the shock, but keep the bleed port submerged the whole time. Then just cycle the shock piston (you are going to have to remove to coil (spring) in order to do so) [by cycle the shock i mean push it in to compress it, the pull it out to full length]. cycle it until no more air comes out (it will take upwards of 20 minute) then keep doing it for another 5 minutes just to be sure, then replace the bleed valve screw.

biscuit - have you tried anything other than redline?

 

[eater]

ok, but how i refill the schock ?
edit:
sorry i hafe see the tread from jonkranked now....

 

[Biscuit]

eater - to refill the shock you must use a submersion bath in order to keep air out of the system. fill a tub or bucket up with enough oil to not only fill the shock, but keep the bleed port submerged the whole time. Then just cycle the shock piston (you are going to have to remove to coil (spring) in order to do so) [by cycle the shock i mean push it in to compress it, the pull it out to full length]. cycle it until no more air comes out (it will take upwards of 20 minute) then keep doing it for another 5 minutes just to be sure, then replace the bleed valve screw.

I highly recommend using a tub or tupperware so you can submerge the reservoir. The first time I did it I tried using a syring and it was a friggin nightmare.

biscuit - have you tried anything other than redline?

No, but a good friend of mine who does a lot of tuning for streetbikes swears by it. He says Redline and Royal Purple are the only ones worth messing with. And for the cost compared to anything you buy in a bike shop, it makes too much sense.

 

[eater]

marzocchi switzerlend tells my today that you must use a syring to refill the oil?....

 

[jonKranked]

don't use a syringe. it will take several hours and you will not get results as good as if you use a submersion bath.

 

[jonKranked]

I highly recommend using a tub or tupperware so you can submerge the reservoir. The first time I did it I tried using a syring and it was a friggin nightmare.

haha same here. but i was just trying to get across the point that you don't need to fill it with enough oil to deep fry a turkey, just enough to keep the shock (and yes, the resi) submerged.

mmmmmm deep fried turkey...

 

[Kntr]

I cant not get the knock to go away. I let all the air out then I opened the bleed screw after the shock sat overnight with the bleed screw up. The oil level was right to the opening.... no air. The shock makes a terrible noise if I drop the rear of the bike from 1-2 inches off the ground.

Im going to do a complete oil change today. Ive got a bottle of 2.5 Redline. Can someone walk me through this?

 

[davep]

Kanter, the UK distributor has a rocco rebuild power point document on their site with pics and all.
here: http://www.windwave.co.uk/documents/techinfo/rearshocks.html

under 'service guides'

If marz USA would provide any of this kind of info to the public, I might consider buying marz products....dont think it is going to happen

 

[Biscuit]

I cant not get the knock to go away. I let all the air out then I opened the bleed screw after the shock sat overnight with the bleed screw up. The oil level was right to the opening.... no air. The shock makes a terrible noise if I drop the rear of the bike from 1-2 inches off the ground.

Im going to do a complete oil change today. Ive got a bottle of 2.5 Redline. Can someone walk me through this?

Before you go too far I would call Marzocchi. If you've already bled the shock and still have a 'knock', changing the oil won't fix the problem.

 

[Biscuit]

Kanter, the UK distributor has a rocco rebuild power point document on their site with pics and all.
here: http://www.windwave.co.uk/documents/techinfo/rearshocks.html

under 'service guides'

If marz USA would provide any of this kind of info to the public, I might consider buying marz products....dont think it is going to happen

Great link Dave! Thank you!

 

[jonKranked]

yo that is an awesome step by step. thanks for sharing the find

 

[Kntr]

I cant see the powerpoint. Its asking for a 25 digit number. I dont know mine.


Just did an oil change. This is what I did. Is this right?
Let all air out.
Took out bleed screw and cycled all the old oil out.
Cycled it for 5-10 minutes in the oil bath until no more air bubble.
Aired it up and cycled it for a few minutes.
Let the air out and took the bleed screw out added more oil.
Aired up, cycled, let air out, took off bleed screw off and no more air, oil at opening.