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Saint brake adjusters?

Tayrob

Monkey
Jan 3, 2008
105
0
Lever adjust just moves the lever closer to/farther away from the bar.Does nothing for the actual throw of the pads.
Free stroke does,and I quote from a Shimano tech. rep,"Little to nothing."
 

no skid marks

Monkey
Jan 15, 2006
2,514
26
ACT Australia
Lever adjust just moves the lever closer to/farther away from the bar.Does nothing for the actual throw of the pads.
Free stroke does,and I quote from a Shimano tech. rep,"Little to nothing."
Yeah, I get the lever adjust, should have worded it better, sorry.
What does the other adjuster actually do?
so they really added no bennefits in adjustment over older 2 pot Saints, apart from ease(big knob).
 
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HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,643
943
Seattle
Yeah, I'm not sure what the Free Stroke does physically, as far as how the adjustment is supposed to be implemented, but I agree with the Shimano tech that says it doesn't do jack. Seriously useless.
 

al-irl

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
1,087
0
A, A
its ment to adjust the amount of lever throw but as said all ready it does sweet f all
 

Tayrob

Monkey
Jan 3, 2008
105
0
The free stroke "supposidly" changes the bite point of the pads,but due to how the brake fluid flows around inside of the caliper,it does nothing.All it seemed to do on mine was to make the lever feel notchy.All of this will be changed however in the next few years...watch for XTR to trickle it's way down into Saint,XT,SLX,etc.
 

dhpete93

Chimp
May 24, 2008
20
0
UK
Winding the free stroke screw in will bring the lever closer to the bar whilst keeping the bite point in the same place. It makes no noticeable difference, anything over 3mm difference would be an exaggeration.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,774
925
As said above, using the free stroke adjuster makes the travel notchy. I'd recommend leaving it all the way out / max stroke (that way it feels normal), it's not like it does anything anyway.

If the lever stroke is too great, my solution is to pump the caliper with the rotor out until the pistons come out a bit (takes a while sometimes!), and then reinstall caliper + top up reservoirs.

It's worth getting used to doing that, because over time the throw seems to grow. :)
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,663
385
Warsaw :/
As said above, using the free stroke adjuster makes the travel notchy. I'd recommend leaving it all the way out / max stroke (that way it feels normal), it's not like it does anything anyway.

If the lever stroke is too great, my solution is to pump the caliper with the rotor out until the pistons come out a bit (takes a while sometimes!), and then reinstall caliper + top up reservoirs.

It's worth getting used to doing that, because over time the throw seems to grow. :)
I'm actually pretty pissed about that because my oros did that as well (though it was much more noticable). Got saints to have a consistent brake with no problems and still it's bad. Dont like the spongy feel of avids and I'm nowhere reach enough to buy the ones.
I wonder if I could improve it a bit with other shimano levers.

Though it's not really that bad but somehow I managed to get a good feel out of my old gustavs and I want it back.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,774
925
If you just want a reliable brake that has ample power, and will be the same day-in-day-out, it's hard to go past the old M800 saints. Once bled properly they will go pretty much forever without needing to be touched again.

The new saint has more stopping power (one of if not the most powerful brake currently available)... and the thing with the lever throw is the trade off I guess.

I was just going to suggest trying the ones, but it sounds like you don't like them. If you're going to try different levers, I'd try the original M800 saint levers. I've heard the combo works well, although I don't know if it would stop the throw increasing over time.
 
Apr 17, 2009
63
0
Los Angeles, CA
If the lever stroke is too great, my solution is to pump the caliper with the rotor out until the pistons come out a bit (takes a while sometimes!), and then reinstall caliper + top up reservoirs.
Would I pump the levers (with the rotors out, pads still in) with the reservoir cap off? Once the pistons come out to the desired position, top off the reservoir and it should be set?
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,663
385
Warsaw :/
If you just want a reliable brake that has ample power, and will be the same day-in-day-out, it's hard to go past the old M800 saints. Once bled properly they will go pretty much forever without needing to be touched again.

The new saint has more stopping power (one of if not the most powerful brake currently available)... and the thing with the lever throw is the trade off I guess.

I was just going to suggest trying the ones, but it sounds like you don't like them. If you're going to try different levers, I'd try the original M800 saint levers. I've heard the combo works well, although I don't know if it would stop the throw increasing over time.
The thing is I have the M810s ;) Im not looking for new brakes but for things that can shorten the lever throw. I'll think about the 800s.Lever throw increasing is normal. It will never be close to the humongous change I felt in my oros.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,774
925
Would I pump the levers (with the rotors out, pads still in) with the reservoir cap off? Once the pistons come out to the desired position, top off the reservoir and it should be set?
I don't think it really makes a difference whether the cap is on or off to get the pistons to come out, sometimes they will come out quickly but usually it takes a lot of pumping. You can test how well you're doing by taking the caliper on and off the rotor and checking lever throw. Do keep an eye on it though because on the odd occasion where one piston does come out quick, it might come right out and cause dramas.

Anyway, after the lever throw is to your liking (I try to get it a little further out than that, because they obviously move in over time), you'd then top up the res and cap it.

The thing is I have the M810s ;) Im not looking for new brakes but for things that can shorten the lever throw. I'll think about the 800s.Lever throw increasing is normal. It will never be close to the humongous change I felt in my oros.
Yeah obviously, I'm in the same boat as you. It's not enough of a bother to change brakes and they are awesome otherwise. Lever throw increasing however is not normal (neither is bleeding your brakes all the time, for the avid/formula guys) - basically owning M800's told me that if you have a good brake, you will virtually never need to touch it. Even pad change intervals were long (thankfully the 810's use the same compound).

But yeah, it's definitely an imperfection in an otherwise excellent brake, but like you suggest the change is very linear so it's never a sudden thing, just happens over time.
 

frango

Turbo Monkey
Jun 13, 2007
1,456
5
This is why I keep using Avids. Tools free adjustments are great thing, especially when they do work.
An adjustment with screw and Phillips driver on Saints is just ridiculous.
I've never had need to adjust lever position on the trail. But stroke adjustment is really handy, when pads getting thiner and thiner.
 

norbar

Turbo Monkey
Jun 7, 2007
9,663
385
Warsaw :/
If only magura made gustavs closer to the weights of saints. I still have some old spares (prolly 2 calipers but no levers). Anyone tried them with other magura levers?
 

SlackBoy

Monkey
Apr 1, 2002
190
0
Wellington, New Zealand
I don't think it really makes a difference whether the cap is on or off to get the pistons to come out, sometimes they will come out quickly but usually it takes a lot of pumping. You can test how well you're doing by taking the caliper on and off the rotor and checking lever throw. Do keep an eye on it though because on the odd occasion where one piston does come out quick, it might come right out and cause dramas.

Anyway, after the lever throw is to your liking (I try to get it a little further out than that, because they obviously move in over time), you'd then top up the res and cap it.
Its way way easier to slap a 1/4 full syringe with a hose on it to the bleed nipple on the caliper, crack the nipple with ya 7mm spanner, suck the lil air bubble up (get the air bubble in the hose and tap it up the hose rather than sucking it up the whole way), then press the syringe and tap off the bleed nipple with ya 7mm, and test. too much, crack the nipple and let some pressure bleed out. Not enuff, press some more.
When your taking the syringe off, apply some suction to stop the mineral fluid from going everywhere.
Generally last for a while as the saint pads last well. but as the wear, you will need to do this again. But it's quick as, and far far more effective pumping the pistons with the rotor out. Thats cracker talk
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”
Mar 14, 2005
4,774
925
It's nothing to do with air bubbles or air in the system.
The only reason what you suggest works is because you are adding fluid to the system, which achieves the same thing I suggested, except IMO in not the best way (even though it's quicker).

This is because bleed nipples are not air sealed, thus opening the bleed nipple when fluid isn't pushing outwards from the caliper via pressure from the m/c means that air can get in. So attaching a syringe to an open bleed nipple and drawing outwards or inwards can both result in air entering the system.

The reason these methods work on avid/formula brakes is that their interface provides a proper seal to allow you to push/pull fluid from the caliper end. Conventional bleed nipples don't lend well to this (shimano / hope / etc). Yes I know about the shimano pro-bleed kit, and no I don't use it - for this reason.
 

SlackBoy

Monkey
Apr 1, 2002
190
0
Wellington, New Zealand
When I say suction, it's only a small amount to get that initial air bubble that sits in teh top of the bleed nipple (not in the system just in that lil hole). In the hundreds of brakes I've done like this, not one has had an issue with air in the system.
I have however seen several brakes with uneven pistons from your method, so each to his own I suppose.

I also refuse to use the pro bleed kit