They just hired the fastest Downhiller in the world and all they 're are going to do is tweak the double chainstay design...?......
Trash that thing and start from scratch.
Trash that thing and start from scratch.
Sam Hill's 2009 Demo ? Race Bike...
- Thread starter S.K.C.
- Start date
still ugly, he'll still win.
They're not gonna scrap a bike design based on a suspension design they've protected religiously and invested millions of dollars (and years of time) in both R&D and patent lawsuits just because they happened to pick up one of the fastest downhillers in the world.
edit: Think of it this way... Specialized has been making and selling mountain bikes longer than Hill has been alive, and they'll be making and selling mountain bikes looooong after he retires. Why should they completely revamp a portion of their business just for him? He's not that special and unique in the big scheme of things, or even in the mountain biking world for that matter - he hasn't invented any new ground breaking technology; he's just really really fast. He'll be remembered as a great racer, same as Tomac, Vouillez, etc.
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To sell bikes and ride the wave, Sam Hill has a legion of young fans.
Now is a good time to bury the double chainstay and go in a new direction.....
Emphasis on YOUNG... young kids don't have the money to go out and pay full retail for a brand new Specialized rig at your LBS (and last I checked Sped's DH bikes are among the most expensive on the market). Granted, some kids have rich parents to buy bikes for them, but they're the exception, not the rule. Other than an authorized Specialized dealer, the only way to get one of their bikes is used through eBay or the classifieds here, PB, NSMB, etc. They don't do mail order and they don't do online sales. Granted, sales of used bikes help establish the brand presence, but the sale of a used bike doesn't put any money into Specialized's pocket.
You have a valid perspective....but there is alot of room for debate in what you are saying.
But still.....it's time to Dump "the double chainstay travesty".
Also, keep in mind that it takes Specialized a pretty long time to develop a new F/S rig from the ground up. We might see something new from them a year or 2 down the road, but certainly not in Hill's first season (other than the obvious geometry/suspension tweaks).
I am surprised no one else has mentioned this... Am I missing something? Is this a typo or is there really a "super short" cage version of the X-O for team riders?
The Demo 8 II comes with a super short X0 stock, did not know that was special?
i thought super short and short was the same.. guess not
juicy levers and ultimate pistons....wierd if you ask me
Because your eyeballs are such sick engineers that they know the triangulated chainstay link is a bad design?
Get over it dude. Is the frame too stiff and light for your taste?
You're right, Specialized doesn't care about being cool......and neither do DH'rs in general. Just look at all their cool graphic packages..
It's just a "Short" cage rear derailleur. No such thing as "Super Short" or "SS" except in Shimano terminology.
I got the spec sheet off of an Italian forum and had to do some translating - so some of the terminology might be a bit off - I'll fix it.
So someone said that his main frame / front triangle is a "Small"...? Hmmm if that's the case - then that would explain the lack of a shock shuttle - but I thought all model sizes had the shock shuttle... guess for production, they deleted it to make room for the shock in the frame?
The geo and sizing on his Sunday has been custom since his "Troy Lee" Sunday from the mid/end of 07' ... the Front Center on that bike was stretched to where the DT was 26.25" and the WB was 46.25". Not sure what the TT was, but one could extrapolate it (had to be over 22"). So these dimensions put that frame in the "Large" size category - not a Med. like he used to ride...
EDIT: (Just Checked Spesh's site) What is nuts is that apparently a "Small" Demo series bike has a WB of around 45.9" ~ 46"!!! ...but only a TT of around 21.6"...
I guess he IS on a Small... crazy... pretty weird dimensions...
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LukeD
Sam Hill's bicycles
they hired Gee too??
Ha, you're are a plank
Actually, I think his name is "Greg Minnaar" or something silly like that.
I think when it comes for suspension design, its function over form yes? Just because it may not look pretty doesn't mean it's not a good design. You're getting the axle path of an FSR (horst - which brings along stiffness and pretty good pedaling traits) but with the damping curves associated with a single pivot. Idk about you but to me it sounds better than it looks. And at the end of the day performance on the trail is what counts. Not to say there's something wrong with putting pretty graphics on it.
you're are a plank too. are
Stinger!
bagaboo......i can throw down random words too!
That bike is sick IMO. Although i love Specializeds and have a Demo 8 myself. But i agree with a statement earlier that the sizing on the Demos is super weird. Im around 5 9ish and ride a small and am definitely comfortable on it. Weird thing is the small WB on the 08 Demo is longer than the WB on the medium 07 Demo.
I had never considered how the graphics affected the performance of the bike. Thanks for enlightening me.
For someone that doesn't care what a bike looks like as long as it performs, you sure seem to care a lot about what a bike looks like. You don't like the look of the chainstay link. You don't like the look of the graphics. How does it ride?
haha how so? i was just relaying what i read in dirtLukeD
Can't say I'm a fan of the Demo ...in the looks department, and it's got a huge number of pivot bearings you would have to replace! Yes I have no idea how it rides, I'm not racing but if I was looks would certainly not be of prime importance (unless you're talking about sponsorships in which case they do play a role!).
So whatever Big S and Hill come up with for next year, I am certainly looking forward to seeing something different. I do hope changes are significant beyong just geometry, but hopefully not towards just looking like another Ironhorse!
So whatever Big S and Hill come up with for next year, I am certainly looking forward to seeing something different. I do hope changes are significant beyong just geometry, but hopefully not towards just looking like another Ironhorse!
How many extra pivot bearings do you think it has over any other fourbar suspension????????
lthumbsdown:
answer; none.
Sunday (going of how it looks);
4 in top link
4 in bottom link
2 in shock mount
Total; 10
Demo;
4 in top link
2 in horst link
2 in main pivot
2 in shock mount
Total; 10
Sunday (going of how it looks);
4 in top link
4 in bottom link
2 in shock mount
Total; 10
Demo;
4 in top link
2 in horst link
2 in main pivot
2 in shock mount
Total; 10
Thats my point
Ironically, Hilly's S'ped is a lot like the bike he was first racing on when he joined up with Ironhorse... back in the pre-sunday days (Saturday?) when their flagship DH bike was the SGS... which was (dramatic pause)...
...an FSR/horst link bike, licensed from Specialized!
Yeah, really not trying to argue with you because that could go on for 10 pages.
I like the Demo line. Wouldn't mind riding one at all.....wasn't criticizing the technical merit of the design one bit. Don't even really care what it looks like. But maybe i wandered a bit from my original statement.
I just think it would be a good time for Spec to catch the wave and carry the momentum of the Hill signing and change things up a bit. A fresh design executed properly would help their bottom line, instead of just tweaking a design that really got mixed reviews from day one. There were rumors of Sam testing Prototypes and such....maybe those protypes were Demo8's with 1/2 inch more TT and 1 degree slacker. As a fan of the sport i was hoping for something more exciting.... That's all...
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Specialized has the ability to turn out steel prototypes to test Geo and other ideas, without having to go the whole hog of getting the factory to make up a frame.
Ever seen the Demo 9 proto frame? Same thing is undoubtedly going on with Sam right now. Every engineer with a 'good' idea getting the opportunity to prove that it is a 'great' idea. Cheap for SBC to do, why not.
No doubt though, they won't introduce something just to be "new and different Sam Hill signature model".
If/when there is something new, it will be because of the merits of the system, not because they need something new to poke at the masses. That argument has already failed with regard to the Horst Link system being 'old/outdated'.
Specialized is bigger than Sam Hill.
Question: Do you think Sam Hill knew that IH would be bankrupt by this time when he decided to jump ship?
im sure he heard rumblings during his time there. its not like IH went bankrupt out of the blue.
they werent a public company right?
No, I haven't, but i would like to.
Thank you for welcoming me to the forum!
My name is Jason Chamberlain, and I am the designer and engineer of the Demo line at Specialized.
Id be happy to address the questions that I see posted here.
Firstly, props to cabdocter for his valiant effort on the overlay.
Items that remain the same as the 2009 Demo 8
Head Tube angle is 64
Chainstay length is 16.5
Top Tube lengths & Wheelbase
Shock I2I
Elements that are new for Sam
BB is 1 inch lower
Head tube is 1.5 (from the Demo 7) you can run semi-integrated 1-1/8 headset for lower front end
S-link is cold forged magnesium. - 120 gms lighter than the alu version, stock on Demo 7/8 II
Geometry is fixed no flip-flop shuttle option at forward shock mount
There was also a question about bearing count. We use cartridge bearings at the CS/Shock pivot. This eliminates the wear and friction of the stock Fox DU bushing. We also have a spherical cup-and-cone which accounts for any shock/frame misalignment. These two elements are unique to Specialized and produce the smoothest rear suspension in the industry.
The weight for a Medium Anodized frame is less than 9 lbs w/o the shock, and its the stiffest frame weve ever measured.
Sam rides a Small and Brendan Fairclough takes a Medium.
Feel free to fire any questions and Ill do my best to address them.
Jason Chamberlain
aka Jake Wake
My name is Jason Chamberlain, and I am the designer and engineer of the Demo line at Specialized.
Id be happy to address the questions that I see posted here.
Firstly, props to cabdocter for his valiant effort on the overlay.
Items that remain the same as the 2009 Demo 8
Head Tube angle is 64
Chainstay length is 16.5
Top Tube lengths & Wheelbase
Shock I2I
Elements that are new for Sam
BB is 1 inch lower
Head tube is 1.5 (from the Demo 7) you can run semi-integrated 1-1/8 headset for lower front end
S-link is cold forged magnesium. - 120 gms lighter than the alu version, stock on Demo 7/8 II
Geometry is fixed no flip-flop shuttle option at forward shock mount
There was also a question about bearing count. We use cartridge bearings at the CS/Shock pivot. This eliminates the wear and friction of the stock Fox DU bushing. We also have a spherical cup-and-cone which accounts for any shock/frame misalignment. These two elements are unique to Specialized and produce the smoothest rear suspension in the industry.
The weight for a Medium Anodized frame is less than 9 lbs w/o the shock, and its the stiffest frame weve ever measured.
Sam rides a Small and Brendan Fairclough takes a Medium.
Feel free to fire any questions and Ill do my best to address them.
Jason Chamberlain
aka Jake Wake
Will the frame Sam is riding right now be the ones what are produced in 2010 for the public?
Nice bike. But who in SAM HELL is SAM HILL!? just joking of course.
Jason, welcome to the boards! As always, its good to have industry folk around to clear up some of the speculation/rumors with concrete info.