Where is the meeting anyway? I've seen details on it in a lot of places, none of which list a location.
Santa Barbara
- Thread starter freerder56
- Start date
bomberboy11 said:
It was at like the third post.
BUMP for this!punkassean said:
So I skim things on RideMonkey, get over it.mtnbrider said:
Thanks..
I don't care that you skim, I was just showing you what you wanted to know.
I agree...the "plan" as it is will lead to more problems. Also, you know that the hikers would get all of the good days (weekends), and we would get stuck with Tuesdays and Thursdays between 10 a.m.-3 p.m. (excluding holidays).Zark said:
punkassean said:
Bump good Info. Read it, like it, and do it.
here is the link to the petition , please sign it, the petition link is in the top right in the green bit
http://www.multiusetc.org/
http://www.multiusetc.org/
The meeting is this Thursday y'all BE THERE.
I talked to two kids. They can't be a day late to sea otter....
nobody can be a day late to sea otter even if it means losing 1/2 access to their trails. What gives with these people?
I don't get it either.
Racing starts at otter on wednesday. No matter how important the cause, most people are not going to miss a race for a land access meeting. Especially when they can think that "other people will go, I don't make a difference".punkassean said:
All of the people I know who are going to Sea Otter over the meeting are DH'ers who don't race until Sunday. Most of them are between 15-22 also FWIW. I don't see missing the first of three days of practice outweighing being at this meeting. But I acknowledge the mentality you speak of, unfortunately it's exactly what's causing a lot of our local problems in the first place, Kids failing to understand the impact of their actions and accept responsibility.
Sean, it's easier said than done for thr people who are racing more than one event. Slalom practice is on Weds and the Qualy is on Thursday, so for people who signed up to race months ago and booked hotels and camp sites for this well before this meeting came up it's not going to happen. I really want to be there to help represent us, but I can't. Our trail acess is waaay more important to me, but it is too late now pull out of Sea Otter.punkassean said:
If you can only get 2 dh runs in a day due to lineups, it becomes an issue.punkassean said:
i'm in utah till friday. can't go. it is true that you coulkd go to sea otter a day late if you are only racing 1 event, but you would risk losing a lot of practice time...
Ya...a race that happens to be no more then a 6 hour drive for SB residents or so, correct? Seems fishy...wydopen said:
Sea Otter is only ~3 hours away from SB, it's practically local.
That's completey true, especially at Sea Otter where there are so many people that getting runs is tough. Most guys though are privateers and it's not like they have sponsors to represent at teh race etc. But even if you are Duncan Riffle it's still more important to be here and make sure you're right to use your local trails is protected for the future IMO. The real problem is that these people can't or won't accept that there is a real possibility this proposal will be approved.Transcend said:
thats a good point to bring up. maybe get them to reschedule another meeting
we already tried weeks ago but they weren't budging AT ALL!
Can't understand why. 
I'll come up on Thursday (not doing SO) if somebody will let me crash on their couch and shuttle me on Friday. 
I'd do it but I have to split for tahoe either late thursday or 1st thing friday.W4S said:I'll come up on Thursday (not doing SO) if somebody will let me crash on their couch and shuttle me on Friday.
I have a bachelor party up in tahoe that weekend and if I split on Thursday afternoon I can hitch a ride with friends, if I stay for the meeting I will have to drive by myself in my truck which gets about 13mpg, costing me hundreds of dollars in gas. In the end it is a matter of priorities, I know it would be hard for many to make it but still possible. Like I said, if you have serious sponsors to represent then Sea Otter is work but for most of us here in SB Sea Otter is about fun and sometimes we have to put fun aside to get things done. I do agree though that making a meeting on a specific date and being completely unwilling to change it is BS on the part of the organizers. It's completely unfair but I'm not at all surprised.konabiker said:
check this out for more info on the up coming meeting:
Summer 2004
INTRODUCTION
As visitors to the local urban interface trail system have significantly increased in recent years, safety issues and disputes are occurring and are expected to worsen unless proactive management policies are developed. The Front Country Trails Working Group (FCTWG) was formed to address these issues and develop recommendations to the different agencies that manage these recreational resources.
It is the desire of the FCTWG that your agency evaluates and implements the following consensus recommendations we have developed as a collaborative group of trails users and stewards.
BACKGROUND
In 2002, the FCTWG was formed to address trail user conflicts on the local front country trails. The Los Padres Forest Association, a non-profit organization that is dedicated to the care and protection of the Los Padres National Forest, has hosted the proceedings. LPFA supports stewardship and education of forest visitors to recreate in a sensitive and responsible manner in order to protect the natural environment..
Regular meetings of the FCTWG have been held over the course of the last 2 years to identify issues and discuss solutions from the respective user groups. In attendance have been representatives from the different agencies to provide advice and guidance as to their roles and abilities to implement different management scenarios. Additionally, students from the Bren School of Environmental Studies and Management and a consultant assisted the group.
Specifically, representatives of the hiking, equestrian, mountain biking and neighborhood communities brought forth their issues and ideas about how best to manage these valuable recreational resources by developing the following mission statement and guiding principles:
The Front Country Trails Working Group serves as an advice-giving body to provide policy recommendations to the Forest Service, the City of Santa Barbara, and the County of Santa Barbara as they pertain to the front country trails and its recreational resources.
The goal of the FCTWG is to encourage management policy decisions that:
· Improve safety
· Protect natural and cultural resources
· Provide trail opportunities for an increasing population of recreational users
· Are feasible to implement
PARTICIPATION
FCTWG participation was comprised of the following distinct user groups:
· Mountain Bikers
· Equestrians
· Hikers
· Area Homeowners
SCOPE
The geographical extent of the FCTWG has been defined as:
Those official trails located within the Los Padres National Forest system and the City of Santa Barbara watershed lands bounded by East Camino Cielo to the north and the City of Santa Barbara to the south.
MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING
Each member of the FCTWG agreed to the following MOU as a guideline for creating a productive environment where consensus was possible.
As a member of the FCTWG I agree to put forth a good faith effort to attend all monthly meetings. Furthermore, I will conduct myself in such a way as to promote the purpose of the meetings and work to achieve its goals.
I understand and agree with the purpose, participants, structure, scope and resources of the group. Additionally, it is my intent to work within the process set forward by the FTCWG. Any outside activities that may conflict with the goals and objective of this process or any attempts toward furthering my groups' or individual agenda, other than in this setting will jeopardize my participation.
FCTWG COLLABERATIVE MANAGEMENT PROPOSAL
In August of 2004 the members of the FCTWG drafted the following proposal for your consideration. This was a collaborative effort based on consensus agreements by all members of the group. These recommendations represent months of research and hours of hard work and compromise by all involved.
It should be noted that the basic principles of this proposal recognizes that the front country trails are part of a larger system that faces the same issues and could act as a model for addressing not only the issues faced on the front country trails but address issues to other trails in the Los Padres National Forest, City of Santa Barbara and County of Santa Barbara trail systems.
Front Country Trails Proposal
Adopted by the FCTWG August 23, 2004
THE VISION
This management approach seeks to develop an interconnected, non-motorized trail system that contains trails where design allows for mixed uses (such as hiking and horseback riding, biking and hiking, or any combination of the three) along with some trails reserved for the use of specific user groups (e.g. hiking only – single use trails).
THE MISSION
To develop both short- and long-term solutions that provide a means for eliminating the safety and environmental concerns of the various trail user groups along with the development of a Trails Alliance composed of local individuals, organizations and agencies. The Trails Alliance will act as an advisory committee that will serve as advocates for the trails system, develop a trail master plan for the front country, and monitor the management of the plan in the future.
BASIC PRINCIPLES
· The issues relating to the front country trails include safety and environmental concerns, trail conditions, trail access issues and the long-term ability of our community to maintain and protect our trails.
· These concerns require a collaborative partnership to develop interim measures, long-range solutions and the organizational support to enable us to care for our trails and expand our trail network.
· Interim solutions the FCTWG proposes to the agencies should be made within the framework of the long-range solutions and be supportive of them.
· Current trail users should continue to work together, developing new routes and maintain existing routes in the Santa Ynez Mountains to meet existing and future needs and address the concerns of the trail user community.
· All trail users have a legitimate right to an expectation of safety on the trails. As new trail access is developed to meet trail user needs, it can be expected we will negotiate to limit the access of some trails to address safety concerns.
INTERIM / LONG-RANGE SOLUTIONS
· Create a Trails Alliance composed of the leading outdoor & environmental groups with the public agencies to develop a Front Country/Santa Ynez Mountain Master Plan. Propose a two-year schedule for the development of the Master Plan that will include planning, mapping, and funding of the new trail system. At the end of this time period it will be the goal of the Trails Alliance to break ground on new trail(s).
· Develop a trail signage and education program with small bird-house type signs at the top of the front country trails and larger kiosk-type signboards at the bottoms. Develop educational and informational brochures, trail information flyers and signs and a “rules of the road” for trail users. Establish clear trail etiquette guidelines for all groups.
· Develop a volunteer “trail host” program, with volunteers at trailheads and on the trails to act as “trail stewards” to help ensure our trails are protected and people are educated.
Adopt for a period of two years an odd-even plan for mountain bikes, meaning that mountain bikes may only use front country trails on either the even or odd days of the year. During this period, a review of the plan's effectiveness in ameliorating user conflict and safety issues will be used to help develop the long-range trail management policies of the Master Plan.
Summer 2004
INTRODUCTION
As visitors to the local urban interface trail system have significantly increased in recent years, safety issues and disputes are occurring and are expected to worsen unless proactive management policies are developed. The Front Country Trails Working Group (FCTWG) was formed to address these issues and develop recommendations to the different agencies that manage these recreational resources.
It is the desire of the FCTWG that your agency evaluates and implements the following consensus recommendations we have developed as a collaborative group of trails users and stewards.
BACKGROUND
In 2002, the FCTWG was formed to address trail user conflicts on the local front country trails. The Los Padres Forest Association, a non-profit organization that is dedicated to the care and protection of the Los Padres National Forest, has hosted the proceedings. LPFA supports stewardship and education of forest visitors to recreate in a sensitive and responsible manner in order to protect the natural environment..
Regular meetings of the FCTWG have been held over the course of the last 2 years to identify issues and discuss solutions from the respective user groups. In attendance have been representatives from the different agencies to provide advice and guidance as to their roles and abilities to implement different management scenarios. Additionally, students from the Bren School of Environmental Studies and Management and a consultant assisted the group.
Specifically, representatives of the hiking, equestrian, mountain biking and neighborhood communities brought forth their issues and ideas about how best to manage these valuable recreational resources by developing the following mission statement and guiding principles:
The Front Country Trails Working Group serves as an advice-giving body to provide policy recommendations to the Forest Service, the City of Santa Barbara, and the County of Santa Barbara as they pertain to the front country trails and its recreational resources.
The goal of the FCTWG is to encourage management policy decisions that:
· Improve safety
· Protect natural and cultural resources
· Provide trail opportunities for an increasing population of recreational users
· Are feasible to implement
PARTICIPATION
FCTWG participation was comprised of the following distinct user groups:
· Mountain Bikers
· Equestrians
· Hikers
· Area Homeowners
SCOPE
The geographical extent of the FCTWG has been defined as:
Those official trails located within the Los Padres National Forest system and the City of Santa Barbara watershed lands bounded by East Camino Cielo to the north and the City of Santa Barbara to the south.
MEMORANDUM OF UNDERSTANDING
Each member of the FCTWG agreed to the following MOU as a guideline for creating a productive environment where consensus was possible.
As a member of the FCTWG I agree to put forth a good faith effort to attend all monthly meetings. Furthermore, I will conduct myself in such a way as to promote the purpose of the meetings and work to achieve its goals.
I understand and agree with the purpose, participants, structure, scope and resources of the group. Additionally, it is my intent to work within the process set forward by the FTCWG. Any outside activities that may conflict with the goals and objective of this process or any attempts toward furthering my groups' or individual agenda, other than in this setting will jeopardize my participation.
FCTWG COLLABERATIVE MANAGEMENT PROPOSAL
In August of 2004 the members of the FCTWG drafted the following proposal for your consideration. This was a collaborative effort based on consensus agreements by all members of the group. These recommendations represent months of research and hours of hard work and compromise by all involved.
It should be noted that the basic principles of this proposal recognizes that the front country trails are part of a larger system that faces the same issues and could act as a model for addressing not only the issues faced on the front country trails but address issues to other trails in the Los Padres National Forest, City of Santa Barbara and County of Santa Barbara trail systems.
Front Country Trails Proposal
Adopted by the FCTWG August 23, 2004
THE VISION
This management approach seeks to develop an interconnected, non-motorized trail system that contains trails where design allows for mixed uses (such as hiking and horseback riding, biking and hiking, or any combination of the three) along with some trails reserved for the use of specific user groups (e.g. hiking only – single use trails).
THE MISSION
To develop both short- and long-term solutions that provide a means for eliminating the safety and environmental concerns of the various trail user groups along with the development of a Trails Alliance composed of local individuals, organizations and agencies. The Trails Alliance will act as an advisory committee that will serve as advocates for the trails system, develop a trail master plan for the front country, and monitor the management of the plan in the future.
BASIC PRINCIPLES
· The issues relating to the front country trails include safety and environmental concerns, trail conditions, trail access issues and the long-term ability of our community to maintain and protect our trails.
· These concerns require a collaborative partnership to develop interim measures, long-range solutions and the organizational support to enable us to care for our trails and expand our trail network.
· Interim solutions the FCTWG proposes to the agencies should be made within the framework of the long-range solutions and be supportive of them.
· Current trail users should continue to work together, developing new routes and maintain existing routes in the Santa Ynez Mountains to meet existing and future needs and address the concerns of the trail user community.
· All trail users have a legitimate right to an expectation of safety on the trails. As new trail access is developed to meet trail user needs, it can be expected we will negotiate to limit the access of some trails to address safety concerns.
INTERIM / LONG-RANGE SOLUTIONS
· Create a Trails Alliance composed of the leading outdoor & environmental groups with the public agencies to develop a Front Country/Santa Ynez Mountain Master Plan. Propose a two-year schedule for the development of the Master Plan that will include planning, mapping, and funding of the new trail system. At the end of this time period it will be the goal of the Trails Alliance to break ground on new trail(s).
· Develop a trail signage and education program with small bird-house type signs at the top of the front country trails and larger kiosk-type signboards at the bottoms. Develop educational and informational brochures, trail information flyers and signs and a “rules of the road” for trail users. Establish clear trail etiquette guidelines for all groups.
· Develop a volunteer “trail host” program, with volunteers at trailheads and on the trails to act as “trail stewards” to help ensure our trails are protected and people are educated.
Adopt for a period of two years an odd-even plan for mountain bikes, meaning that mountain bikes may only use front country trails on either the even or odd days of the year. During this period, a review of the plan's effectiveness in ameliorating user conflict and safety issues will be used to help develop the long-range trail management policies of the Master Plan.
Is anybody going to Sea Otter on Friday morning or late Thursday after the meeting? I am trying to find a one-way ride to that area.
Good luck, guys.
I can't go anymore... 
:redhot:
I was planning on going, but my parents had to be somewhere. Good Luck!!!
:redhot: I was planning on going, but my parents had to be somewhere. Good Luck!!!
heading out right now.....
Wow..a heated, emotional, long meeting. The place was packed. We had a huge number of MTB'rs there, but it seemed like fewer of us opted for public comment (IE, get up and speak) The anti bike folks showed up too. Sierra Club, Jim Childress (safe trails nazi) and equestrian folks too.
The informational meeting showed folks the plan FCTWG came up with and addressing the multi jurisdictional makeup of the trails. The even/odd plan was proposed as an interim measure to allow the "disinfranchised" (hikers/equestrians) a chance to 'reclaim' the trails.
Perception: To our foes we are adrenaline junkies, contantly bent on speed and completely unsafe. We are 'racing' to the bottom.
Results?: none, it was just a proposal and no one is ready to move forward yet. Even/oddd probably isn't going to happen as everyone feels it doesn't solve anything and is unenforceable. More meetings and planning and proposals in the future.
Action: We have got to start policing ourselves better. Too many are not using bells evidently, and too many have the mentality thats its OK to totally race down the trails. Guess what? Its not, they are multi-use and we are pissing everyone off. Yield to other users! Everyone knows they are supposed to do this, but rarely do we.
We need to be there in larger numbers and more vocally for the following meetings and come prepared to deal with our opponents with rational points. Our opponents biggest weakness is emotion, they get so heated that they shoot themselves in the foot. So stay calm and take the high road DHr's, it could be our saving grace.
Noah
The informational meeting showed folks the plan FCTWG came up with and addressing the multi jurisdictional makeup of the trails. The even/odd plan was proposed as an interim measure to allow the "disinfranchised" (hikers/equestrians) a chance to 'reclaim' the trails.
Perception: To our foes we are adrenaline junkies, contantly bent on speed and completely unsafe. We are 'racing' to the bottom.
Results?: none, it was just a proposal and no one is ready to move forward yet. Even/oddd probably isn't going to happen as everyone feels it doesn't solve anything and is unenforceable. More meetings and planning and proposals in the future.
Action: We have got to start policing ourselves better. Too many are not using bells evidently, and too many have the mentality thats its OK to totally race down the trails. Guess what? Its not, they are multi-use and we are pissing everyone off. Yield to other users! Everyone knows they are supposed to do this, but rarely do we.
We need to be there in larger numbers and more vocally for the following meetings and come prepared to deal with our opponents with rational points. Our opponents biggest weakness is emotion, they get so heated that they shoot themselves in the foot. So stay calm and take the high road DHr's, it could be our saving grace.
Noah