[kidwoo]

Does it really help that much on a DH bike?

Depends on what you mean by help.

It just keeps things quiet, calm and controlled......on ANY bike. It really is badass. Just think of any problem or noise you ever had from a chain flopping around......that doesn't exist anymore. And the shimano system is notably better than the sram one (mostly just because of the shifters). That's from a guy who bought nothing but sram derailleurs for about a decade.

 

[boylagz]

^ I have the Type 2 X9, paired with an X9 shifter and a 12-25 10sp Dura-Ace cassette. Shifts like a dream now, had a major PITA with a 10sp RED 11-25 I have to say, having a quiet bike is really nice.

What's that sound? Oh, my tires...

 

[dilzy]

Does anyone else think the gearbox caucus is just banging their head against the wall at this point? Interest by manufacturers peaked about 3 years ago and didn't really go anywhere. Modern DH drivetrains are light, solid and dependable (though some people can break anything riding down the street), and doesn't limit creativity of designing a unique frame/suspension design. Besides Zerode and the odd boutique manufacturer I'd say the gearbox is dead at least for several more seasons if not for good. What $$ anyone has is going to carbon and 650b development.

I bend derailleurs and hangers quite a lot on my trail bike, but aside from that, dropping 500g (cassette, derailleur, hanger, some chain, freewheel) is a substantial performance gain. You could add 3kg to the main frame and it'd still feel better (especially for dh).

It's only derailleur manufacturers that don't want it, as buying a gearbox that lasts 20yrs is not good for business.

 

[Udi]

Does anyone else think the gearbox caucus is just banging their head against the wall at this point? Interest by manufacturers peaked about 3 years ago and didn't really go anywhere. Modern DH drivetrains are light, solid and dependable (though some people can break anything riding down the street), and doesn't limit creativity of designing a unique frame/suspension design.

I bought a pair of these - let me know if you want one to strap on your frame too.

 

[tabletop84]

No. And I doubt you're having any effect on people who are stoked on this frame, just e-arguing. If anything you and other skeptics benefit from "new sh¡t craving" cuz that's how lightly used recent stuff gets into the 2nd hand market.

he's definately onto something here...

Does anyone else think the gearbox caucus is just banging their head against the wall at this point? Interest by manufacturers peaked about 3 years ago and didn't really go anywhere. Modern DH drivetrains are light, solid and dependable (though some people can break anything riding down the street), and doesn't limit creativity of designing a unique frame/suspension design. Besides Zerode and the odd boutique manufacturer I'd say the gearbox is dead at least for several more seasons if not for good. What $$ anyone has is going to carbon and 650b development.

Well the Pinion-Concept looks promising and it's likely that it survives and raises attention. Now think about a version with less gears & weight on a dh rig. Nobodoy talks about clutch derailleurs anymore when something like that hits the market. Sadly the main players will most likely wipe out pinion with their own designs once they really teke off.

 

[frango]

Gettin' back to the frame and bike itself... I've had few spare minutes and tried to calculate the weight the of complete bike, with ENVE kit and w/o pedals... I've ended up with nearly 15kg (33,06lbs) (claimed and sicklines gallery weights). Then I've "put" my current and near future components on the V10c frame and the weight dropped to 13,25kg (29,2lbs) w/o pedals. However, there are still some places where weight can be easily and safely shaved like X0 DH cranks, of some fancy CF chainguide So, sub 30lbs (w/ pedals) DH bike is not a problem, anymore

 

[sethimus]

ridemonkey is pretty much the 4chan of mountain biking

^this

 

[UiUiUiUi]

Gettin' back to the frame and bike itself... I've had few spare minutes and tried to calculate the weight the of complete bike, with ENVE kit and w/o pedals... I've ended up with nearly 15kg (33,06lbs) (claimed and sicklines gallery weights). Then I've "put" my current and near future components on the V10c frame and the weight dropped to 13,25kg (29,2lbs) w/o pedals. However, there are still some places where weight can be easily and safely shaved like X0 DH cranks, of some fancy CF chainguide So, sub 30lbs (w/ pedals) DH bike is not a problem, anymore

you mind putting up this build kit? i am curious

 

[frango]

I can't due to several reasons
Can't afford such frame as V10c, working for Giant etc
But, my next season build should be around 14,3kg (31,5lbs) with CC DBair and upgrades wheels w/o breaking the bank

 

[Cant Climb]

Sickest Mountain bike ever.
Boldest warranty ever.

And Santa Cruz figured out years ago that "Consumer based customer service" was the way to go with high-end bikes......the consumer can manage warranty issues themselves without the PITA of dealing with shops.

 

[UiUiUiUi]

I can't due to several reasons
Can't afford such frame as V10c, working for Giant etc
But, my next season build should be around 14,3kg (31,5lbs) with CC DBair and upgrades wheels w/o breaking the bank

does not make sense to me, you can't post a bunch of parts because you work for a different frame manufacturer?

 

[frango]

Oh... here comes language barrier

Here it is

 

[norbar]

250g on a derail? Gaspard! Come on.

Also sain810 is way heavier than descendant.

AS for the casette 11-18T? Did you take a few cogs out? Than it's not 230g.

 

[General Lee]

I bought a pair of these - let me know if you want one to strap on your frame too.

Just one, that seems like cheating? I was just at Taiching Bike Week (2014 OEM/supplier show) and there was exactly 1 gear box (mounted on a 4 year old frame) and it weighed 4.5kg (9.9lb for us Yanks).



The only other gearbox I saw was this one, but it was hanging on the wall at the Pacific Cycles museum with a few other designs that had been put out to pasture:

It's only derailleur manufacturers that don't want it, as buying a gearbox that lasts 20yrs is not good for business.

There are a few of us consumers out there who didn't want it then and definitely don't want it now.


Sorry to derail

 

[frango]

As for rear mech, this is what I found
As for crankset, the diff is about 50g to the advantage of Descendants
Same mistake as usual 11-28t SLX/Saint HG-80 cassette

 

[General Lee]

Back on track:

From a strictly aesthetic standpoint, all these new carbon/matte black frames coming out from the likes of Santa Cruz, Evil, etc have got to be some of the best looking DH frames ever produced. I want 2, one to ride and another to hang on the wall in my office.

My how far we've come:

 

[norbar]

As for rear mech, this is what I found
As for crankset, the diff is about 50g to the advantage of Descendants
Same mistake as usual 11-28t SLX/Saint HG-80 cassette

Please look the weights up instead of guessing. As per sicklines 80g difference descendant vs 815. I doubt the 810 is 30g lighter

Still you have a lot too lose.

 

[frango]

Please look the weights up instead of guessing. As per sicklines 80g difference descendant vs 815. I doubt the 810 is 30g lighter

Still you have a lot too lose.

I a not guessing, you know that ;>

 

[UiUiUiUi]

Oh... here comes language barrier

Here it is

thank you very much!

 

[iRider]

My how far we've come:

Have we really come that far?

 

[General Lee]

Have we really come that far?

Yes we have. If I had a TeamRobot kill list the Lahar would be on it

 

[kidwoo]

My how far we've come:

Who's 'we' white man? I only see one bike in that post to begin with.

 

[General Lee]

Who's 'we' white man?

But I live in Asia now so technically I'm a minority. And an immigrant.

 

[kidwoo]

Then by all means, Krutor on my friend!


What the hell you doing in 'asia'?

 

[gemini2k]

Hmm interesting. I've been debating if its worth replacing my perfectly fine saint setup for that.

Depends on what you mean by help.

It just keeps things quiet, calm and controlled......on ANY bike. It really is badass. Just think of any problem or noise you ever had from a chain flopping around......that doesn't exist anymore. And the shimano system is notably better than the sram one (mostly just because of the shifters). That's from a guy who bought nothing but sram derailleurs for about a decade.

 

[ianjenn]

How far we have to go this is what $45K will buy you a 2.8KG complete bike. It's about 4.5-5K under the UCI weight limit minimum but since we are dorking out.

http://www.tririg.com/articles.php?id=1035_Worlds_Lightest_Bike

 

[tabletop84]

Just one, that seems like cheating? I was just at Taiching Bike Week (2014 OEM/supplier show) and there was exactly 1 gear box (mounted on a 4 year old frame) and it weighed 4.5kg (9.9lb for us Yanks).

The only other gearbox I saw was this one, but it was hanging on the wall at the Pacific Cycles museum with a few other designs that had been put out to pasture:


There are a few of us consumers out there who didn't want it then and definitely don't want it now.


Sorry to derail

http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=600453&page=6

http://www.mtb-news.de/forum/showthread.php?t=593337&page=18

 

[General Lee]

Then by all means, Krutor on my friend!


What the hell you doing in 'asia'?

Girlfriend is deputy chief of US Agriculture in Taiwan for the next few years, so I'm big ballin' in Taipei on Uncle Sam's dime. Thinking about masquerading as a bike industry social liaison in the model of Jill Kelley (minus the fake tits)

 

[kidwoo]

Girlfriend is deputy chief of US Agriculture in Taiwan for the next few years, so I'm big ballin' in Taipei on Uncle Sam's dime. Thinking about masquerading as a bike industry social liaison in the model of Jill Kelley (minus the fake tits)

Nice! Sounds like an adventure. Jump off waterfalls. Go big. Get the tits anyway.

And see if you can get me an advance release of a canon 6d somewhere.

 

[ianjenn]

Girlfriend is deputy chief of US Agriculture

Nice need to get back on track in the AG field. Problem is we live in SLO and I am not that fond of the wine industry. If you are taking camera orders I will take a 1DXs THXS.

 

[frango]

As we've already came to Taiwan and Pinion, I think Taichung Bike Week showed just little of what we might see during Taipei Cycle show in late March.

 

[xy9ine]

Have we really come that far?

still running, i might add. 6 seasons on the thing so far. absolutely bomber. geometry is still current, and drivetrain still next to maintenance free. love it.

 

[iRider]

still running, i might add. 6 seasons on the thing so far. absolutely bomber. geometry is still current, and drivetrain still next to maintenance free. love it.

Killer bike! Still so far ahead. Unfortunately the big boys only paint their normal bikes in carbon.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

you guys make it hard for anybody legit to post - you ran DW out of the building with your bucking and your evils always break complaints. I imagine roskopp walking into my office any day and telling me to quit it because you a$$holes turn everything around. it is funny though.

I do wonder, though, if anyone has started a program where all forum posts are analyzed real-time and the best/most annoying responses are formulated automatically. All of the resulting scenarios of where the thread might go from there are calculated based on baiting analyses done on all users posts in all threads previously. The original algorithm might have been susceptible to confusion and malfunction by terms such as "moar", "root beer", and "buck". The program would create thousands of usernames on forums globally that bulk up post counts by posting useless and baseless comments - along with other internet site "editorials" that are built using content aggregation (similiar to rockyroads) to build an online "profile" so legit that actual humans would think its legitimate. This is a world where its hard to know what profiles are real people anymore and which are controlled by warring factions and supercomputers.
I imagine kidwoo as the matt damon of this futurescape (not as articulate though).




matt damon

Must spread. I think I'll buy a Santa Cruz now...

 

[dilzy]

There are a few of us consumers out there who didn't want it then and definitely don't want it now.


Sorry to derail

I know I'm continuing to derail here, but why wouldn't you want one? You get a huge unsprung weight reduction and the new pinion with 18speed is about 1kg overall heavier than a conventional setup, less when they bring out a 6spd.

Do you like having something as weedy as a derailleur? Or is it the weight? Or the cost? (because compared with an xx drive train a gb isn't actually expensive).

 

[norbar]

I know I'm continuing to derail here, but why wouldn't you want one? You get a huge unsprung weight reduction and the new pinion with 18speed is about 1kg overall heavier than a conventional setup, less when they bring out a 6spd.

Do you like having something as weedy as a derailleur? Or is it the weight? Or the cost? (because compared with an xx drive train a gb isn't actually expensive).

Most people don't mangle their derails as often as the gearbox club suggests. I'm all up for the technology but the price and weight are a big difference considering no one who isn't selling coke wants to spend that cash on such a little improvement (speaking about the xx)

 

[Dogboy]

Most people don't mangle their derails as often as the gearbox club suggests.

This. Also, most of the gearbox bikes that are out there are pretty hideous frame designs. The one commercially available exception IMO is the Zerode. It looks like a great bike that will just get better with each revision. I'm all for new technology too, but only if it's an improvement I can appreciate.

 

[ianjenn]

This. Also, most of the gearbox bikes that are out there are pretty hideous frame designs. The one commercially available exception IMO is the Zerode. It looks like a great bike that will just get better with each revision. I'm all for new technology too, but only if it's an improvement I can appreciate.

Being able to shift anytime and a bunch of gears at once while coasting, mid turn while not pedaling can be advantageous.

 

[General Lee]

Being able to shift anytime and a bunch of gears at once while coasting, mid turn while not pedaling can be overrated.

Now I agree

 

[General Lee]

Explain exactly what happened with the Honda RN1 and them having to alter the "gearbox" and why again?

your making not sense