[Udi]

Shimanno Alfine 8 speed is working brilliantly in the Zerodes

Yeah fair call, I was trying to connect the dots between no Zerode owners complaining vs. a bunch of people complaining about the 11's, I never bothered to count the shifts on it - I presume then that the Alfine 8 is a reliable unit. Is it produced in parallel to the 11 or has it been superseded?

The proper thumb shifter is definitely a step forward - does the shifter operate like a conventional one or with trigger functions reversed?

 

[no skid marks]

Yeah fair call, I was trying to connect the dots between no Zerode owners complaining vs. a bunch of people complaining about the 11's, I never bothered to count the shifts on it - I presume then that the Alfine 8 is a reliable unit. Is it produced in parallel to the 11 or has it been superseded?11 speed is the newer model, but 8 is still made.

The proper thumb shifter is definitely a step forward - does the shifter operate like a conventional one or with trigger functions reversed?

Reversed still. Big button for go faster. Not an issue on a Alfine as the shift isn't having to pull a mech up a cassette. Shifting either way is effortless compared to a derailleur shifter going to easier gear. It's nearly to easy until your used to it. Unless you're shifting under full stomping power, then it's like a rear mech but not, load time is shorter, but you learn to light pedal a touch for a shift, same as a mech, but not.

Can we get this back to the V10, there's plenty of gearbox threads as mentioned.
V10, not gear-boxing.

 

[no skid marks]

Surprised nobody has asked the best way to crack an ally V-10 swingarm to make it look defected to get a carbon replacement.

 

[General Lee]

Surprised nobody has asked the best way to crack an ally V-10 swingarm to make it look defected to get a carbon replacement.

Hit it with a gearbox. Duh.

 

[ianjenn]

Does it have zerk fittings on all bearing this time?

 

[xy9ine]

The 2nd iteration was. The first one was a completely f'ing mental CVT linkage setup that didn't actually have any gear cogs at all.

here it be:

stolen from this doc - some serious gearbox nerding out (in german, though):

http://www.troeger-engineering.de/content/lexikon/Allgemeines_ueber_Getriebe_v3.pdf

honda multiple gearbox iterations:

mba diagram:

*perhaps* this is the wrong thread for this...

 

[Cant Climb]

*perhaps* this is the wrong thread for this...

Entire thread was ruined by Gearbox diarrhea....

 

[Big J]

Entire thread was ruined by Gearbox diarrhea....

+1.....

back to the new V10c, wow, what a nice rig!!

I really like the attention to detail and customer focus, ie chain stay & down tube protection, zerk fittings, finish, shock choice, warranty, est…..

J

 

[joeg]

Historically, spare frame sections are available as crash replacement only, and not as stand alone retail items.

It would be nice to be corrected by JoeG, but I wouldn't get your hopes up.


I still dont understand why it has SRAM cranks on a Shimano equipped bike, on a brand whose team runs Shimano.

And if a Thomson post, why not a Thomson stem and not that silly 35mm Easton stuff? Nitpicky and vain - come at me bro!

sorry for the delay, I had to actually work for a few days - and now chiming in from the far east: our chinese overlords deny access to youtube and facebook, but - get this: they don't block ridemonkey! they must be reaping the secret information about titanium forgings and other military secrets discussed here. Please keep all discussions on the DH forum at Classification DBag or lower - if not for you think of the children.

anyway, yeah: its a frame or nothing. It sucks, but if you really want to rage about it, PM me and I'll bore you to sleep with the reasoning.
As for the kit nit pick: **** all of you. you are a bunch of whiny assholes. you know why I know this? because we sell frames at a reasonable price, and complete bikes if you want them. Survey says: people want frames. If you really want to see a carbon crank, and bar in our pictures: go buy a complete bike from SCB and you'll become a signficant integer % of the complete V10 market - then email me directly and I'll actually listen to you because you are an actual customer. Some savvy chimp might question why SCB is "able" to offer frames at a price that isn't retarded in comparison with other carbon frames on the market. (hint: its not all complete bikes dummy).
And shortly after that analysis, kindly show you receipt or STFU.

Disclaimer: This message may have become jumbled through the chinese censor screen. i'd typed it up as a very nice message, i hope it came through that way or I'll edit upon re-entry.

 

[kidwoo]

I've never wanted to buy a santa cruz frame more than right now.

 

[iRider]

sorry for the delay, I had to actually work for a few days - and now chiming in from the far east: our chinese overlords deny access to youtube and facebook, but - get this: they don't block ridemonkey!

Good to hear that Santa Cruz gets their frames produced in a country that lives by the same standards as the US: Land of the free, home of the brave!

 

[Yeti]

loled

 

[no skid marks]

I've never wanted to buy a santa cruz frame more than right now.

Looks petty trick.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

i've never wanted to buy a santa cruz frame more than right now.

qft^^^

 

[General Lee]

Good to hear that Santa Cruz gets their frames produced in a country that lives by the same standards as the US: Land of the free, home of the brave!

China is another story, but having lived in Taiwan for the past 3 months I've got a long list of things the land of the free and home of the brave could learn from the way things are done here.

Incredibly safe w/ almost no police presence
Cheap, efficient, and modern transportation and high speed rail
Mandated employer subsidized healthcare (single payer National health service)
Better medical and dental facilities than much of N. America
Big cities are super clean
Etc, etc....

America's still tops in my book, but it's certainly has a few areas that need improvement.


Of course Taiwan is also nothing like China, but so many bikes are made here that it's worth mentioning.

 

[descente]

joe, please continue to kick ass. i have never been more proud to own a santa cruz than after your post.

as for all the people whining about it being built in china, go visit a real large scale carbon bike production facility, and then be thankful there isn't one in your backyard. theres a reason nearly all domestic fibre carbon production is either heavily subsidized by govt defense contracts or small item, small batch stuff like enve.

 

[dropmachine]

Mountain bike forums are the rectal discharge of the bike industry.

Discuss amongst yourselves.


SC FTW.

 

[dilzy]

joe, please continue to kick ass. i have never been more proud to own a santa cruz than after your post.

as for all the people whining about it being built in china, go visit a real large scale carbon bike production facility, and then be thankful there isn't one in your backyard. theres a reason nearly all domestic fibre carbon production is either heavily subsidized by govt defense contracts or small item, small batch stuff like enve.

Yes because offloading pollution to a country like china because you don't want to pay for clean production in your own country is totally cool.

Maybe one day the average noggy will realise that a gas fills its container. F China.

 

[joeg]

Yes because offloading pollution to a country like china because you don't want to pay for clean production in your own country is totally cool.
.

It's not about pollution, it's about labor cost. Still don't want one in my backyard, although I could do without jet lag.

 

[Kanye West]

Actually, with the CF production, it probably isn't about pollution, but when it comes to raw aluminum extrusion (as the bike industry has been dependent upon for quite some time), it IS about pollution, and cost of shipping bulk raw materials. US EPA regulations have driven that industry to places where that are no regulations to continue its production, like China. So instead of allowing it to happen here with just a little bit less regulation on it, we've made it so manufacturers have to off-shore the work to make it even possible in the first place, and the obvious choice is somewhere with nothing holding them back if they're going to have to go through that effort. Result, worse pollution. Tough to blame the manufacturers though.

That said, CF cutting and layup work is some of the worst crap in the world for the workers dealing with it. I won't do much of anything with it w/o a respirator, goggles, cap, cleanroom gown gloves and footies.

 

[dilzy]

Actually, with the CF production, it probably isn't about pollution, but when it comes to raw aluminum extrusion (as the bike industry has been dependent upon for quite some time), it IS about pollution, and cost of shipping bulk raw materials. US EPA regulations have driven that industry to places where that are no regulations to continue its production, like China. So instead of allowing it to happen here with just a little bit less regulation on it, we've made it so manufacturers have to off-shore the work to make it even possible in the first place, and the obvious choice is somewhere with nothing holding them back if they're going to have to go through that effort. Result, worse pollution. Tough to blame the manufacturers though.

That said, CF cutting and layup work is some of the worst crap in the world for the workers dealing with it. I won't do much of anything with it w/o a respirator, goggles, cap, cleanroom gown gloves and footies.

TBH countries with proper environmental and worker health regulations should just have a blanket import ban on products produced in factories not meeting those (as in your own HSE and environmental) requirements, simultaneously encourage china (mainly) to boost human rights and environmental standards, whilst also not ****ing over local manufacturers with unbeatable competition. It's the same case in Australia where we export all our coal (and iron ore) to china, let them burn it in a coal station (then smelt some iron with the electricity) then make regulations requiring Australian coal stations to fit scrubbing equipment and wonder why we can't compete, globalisation is the worst evil to befall our world.

Your absolutely right that you can't blame the manufacturers, they're just a victim of competition, it's either go broke or do it offshore.

Raw CF filament production is some nasty stuff that needs a lot of 2ndary processing and containment to avoid smacking the local populous in the face with multiple carcinogens.

 

[gemini2k]

TBH countries with proper environmental and worker health regulations should just have a blanket import ban on products produced in factories not meeting those requirements, simultainiously encourage china (mainly) to boost human rights and environmental standards, whilst also not ****ing over local manufacturers with unbeatable competition. It's the same case in Australia where we export all our coal (and iron ore) to china, let them burn it in a coal station (then smelt some iron with the electricity) then make regulations requiring Australian coal stations to fit scrubbing equipment and wonder why we can't compete, globalisation is the worst evil to befall our world.

wUrd. We all suffer when the stuff made in china is made in the most polluting, cheapest way possible.

 

[frango]

Yet, we really do appreciate what comes from China, even here, is Europe, even with antidamping duties...

 

[no skid marks]

I'm happy to pay extra to buy local if possible. Unfortunately the Ozzy bike building business is pretty small. Built durable is as equally important IMO. Then there's recycling, but not many bikes would be recycled anyway I guess.
At least for us in Oz, if it comes direct from China or Taiwan, the carbon used in transport is less.

 

[Lelandjt]

I'm transferring my parts (with a couple new parts) from a large V10.4c to a V10.5c so I did a little weighing:
The new frame is 1.5lb lighter, 5.7 vs 7.2 w/o shock*.
The Vivid Air is 1lb lighter than a RC4 with 450lb spring (620g vs 1100g). The spring itself weighs 650g, does anyone know what a Ti 450x3" spring for a RC4 weighs?
SixC cranks are only 200g lighter than 1st gen Gravity Lights (490 vs 690). I was expecting more difference but I guess G-Lights are pretty light.
So my large V10.5c frame with Vivid Air weighs 7lb on the dot*. The complete bike will weigh about 32lbs with heavy tires, pedals, and saddle. My 2012 bike weighed 35lbs.

*I did frame weights without axle and seat collar as I suspect that's how companies are weighing them when making claims. Add 64g for the axle and 20g for the seat collar if you want. The frame protection had been put on when I weighed the frame but I cut it down to 90g from the original 120g.

 

[Udi]

Ti springs vary greatly in weight depending on brand, even if the rate and stroke are the same, so it's hard to answer that.

Generally the lightest ones are Progressive / Manitou / DSP.
RCS, Nukeproof, Marzocchi, Obtainium and others are usually heavier.

 

[gemini2k]

The new frame is 1.5lb lighter, 5.7 vs 7.2 w/o shock*.

It is officially lighter than my 2013 road bike frame.

 

[boylagz]

@Lelandjt, my 500x3.00 Ti spring for CC/Fox weighs ~450g (ID 1.43").

 

[Lelandjt]

@Lelandjt, my 500x3.00 Ti spring for CC/Fox weighs ~450g (ID 1.43").

So Ti saves 1/2lb at this size. The RC4 shock itself is lighter than I expected. With a Ti spring it only gives up 1/2lb to the Vivid Air.

 

[boylagz]

^ Sounds about right. For 9.5x3.0 shocks that the ballpark savings (from what Ive read at least, I havent weighed my steel 550# cc spring )