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Santa cruz-Raceface set up issues. Defect?

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by Banshee Rider, Dec 10, 2005.

  1. Banshee Rider

    Banshee Rider Turbo Monkey

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    I've been having this re-occuring problem with raceface diablos BB's in my 05' V10. I'm wondering if any of you have had a similar problem, or if you might have any suggestions on what to do. Here is the problem:

    My 05 v10 seems to reject diablos bottom brackets. They have a VERY hard time threading in. They thread in perfectly straight, but the pressure needed to tighten it in the frame is unnatural. Its almost feel as if it was being cross threaded, but its not. To check and make sure this was not a fluke I checked a couple things:

    1. I re-tapped my bottom bracket threads in the frame with a park tool thread chaser at the shop. The tool has not seen much use so its still very sharp. I had the head mechanic check and make sure it was properly chased. The threads are fine and straight, thats not an issue. However, the BB still wants to do the same thing. That idea is out.

    2. Thought the bottom bracket might be a warentee, defective threads, something of that nature. So i grab one of the diablos BB's off the showroom floor. Same issue. I grab another, same issue. Finally I call raceface direct. They insist this is not their fault, and that they lazer cut the threads themselves in house in vancouver. ok, so if its not the BB, and its not the frame threads, what else is left?

    3. To stabilize 1 and 2 I wanted to make sure this wasnt an issue with other BBs. So I grab a truvative, fsa, and old isis race face BB. All thread into the frame without any issues. Clean, tightened most the way by hand. Perfect.

    4. Do the BB's do it with every frame? No. They threaded into a sinister ridge and c'dale gemini perfectly, no issues. It seems to be a raceface/santacruz combo from hell that is the issue.

    So. what are ya'lls best guesses for my here situation? I really want to stress that I've had out head mechanics check and go over this himself. None of us have an explaination as to why this is happening. Any thoughts would be great!
     

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  2. vitox

    vitox Turbo Monkey

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    ive had a similar problem with those cranks, its almost impossible to get the e13 iscg to bb adapter to work with those cups, so probably the thread is a bit taller than normal.
     
  3. dhkid

    dhkid Turbo Monkey

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    just use a pen grinder to grinde the isgc adaptor a couple of turns. i had the same problem with a bullit too. nothing to worry about.
     
  4. Banshee Rider

    Banshee Rider Turbo Monkey

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    The iscg adaptor slides fine over the threads, it does not need to be grinded any more. I dont see how it would have an effect on the cup itself threading into the frame. This seens to me more of an issue with the threads on the BB being to tall.
     
  5. ioscope

    ioscope Turbo Monkey

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    Try freezing the bb and heating up the frame. (not a lot obviously)

    Now thread it in real quick...

    Just a crazy idea.
    Grease the threads perhaps?
     
  6. Castle

    Castle Turbo Monkey

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    are the threads deeper on the cup then they are in your b.b. shell? (as in longer/deeper insertion)

    I have used those cranks on a couple of vpfree's.....

    I'd be tempted to whip out that facing/chasing tool again and see how far you are chasing the threads into the frame. I say this because you mentioned it goes in fine at first and stiffens up as it gets into the shell.

    that's a crappy problem, good luck and be patient
     
  7. Banshee Rider

    Banshee Rider Turbo Monkey

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    The BB is the correct size for my v10 and has the correct ammount of spacers, so its not trying to go beyond the frame threads.

    The BB has been chased, the chaser threads in the whole way, straight, no problem, even when deep into the shell.

    This problem makes absolutely no sence to me other than race face has abnormally tall threads compared to other companies. If this whole process somehow f*cked up my new 2,400$ frame i'm going to be PISSED!
     
  8. Castle

    Castle Turbo Monkey

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    I didn't have that problem in the vpfrees. I've installed a few sets of the Atlas in Hecklers as well.. hmmm

    try a shimano b.b. they are compatable with the X-Type stuff, so if it's the thread pitch or depth, that may be the answer, have any shimano cups hanging out at the shop?
     
  9. Stiff

    Stiff Monkey

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    I have the same combo and no problems except the unrelated Evil cg alignment issues, which has already been talked about. Maybe you should try having a beer before threading in.
     
  10. keeping_it_real

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    Its not the thread locker goo that Race face squirt on the BB cups to stop loosening thats causing the problem is it?

    Iv just fitted some Diabolus into my A-Line frame, and they do require more torque when you get to the threads with the locktite goo on them.
    Just a thought.
     
  11. Castle

    Castle Turbo Monkey

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    yeah that stuff is kinda thick....
     
  12. Banshee Rider

    Banshee Rider Turbo Monkey

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    the red lock tight is not the issue, it starts going in hard before that. I've thought of the shimano idea, unfortunately this bike requires an 83mm, which we do not stock in the shop since its more xc/road oriented. I'm calling race face first thing monday to get an answer, this is 100% not normal and everyone who has looked at it agrees.
     
  13. Castle

    Castle Turbo Monkey

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    the v10 is a 73mm shell.... Are you using the 83mm (wide) cranks with the retro fit kit (raceface) for use w/ 73mm shells? that is your best option.

    The cups from 83 to 73 should be the same, the difference is the inner plastic sleeve. You should be fine with a shimano b.b. and wide spindle diabolus and retro fit kit from raceface.


    Just a thought, you aren't trying to jam a 83mm b.b. sleeve in there are ya? that would def. cause a problem, the v10 is a 73mm shell.
     
  14. Banshee Rider

    Banshee Rider Turbo Monkey

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    I run an 83mm BB with a 128mm crank spindle. I talked quite a bit with jonas at e13 about fitting this set up with my v10. According to them, in order to space the chainguide where I need it to be, without having the cranks offset (which happens with the 73/118) I have to run this set up. Also, witht e 73/118 the cups dont thread in enough because of the spacers you have to put in to make the chainline work. I've got the correct crank/bb for the bike. However this BB problem has occured even with my old diablos. Its only a problem on this bike and its very frustrating :mumble:
     
  15. Castle

    Castle Turbo Monkey

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    the Diabolus come in two versions 50mm chainline and 57mm chainline.

    the 50mm= 68/73mm b.b. (135 spaced rear end)
    the 57mm= 83mm b.b. (150 spaced rear end)

    118 and 128 spindle lengths are in reference to ISIS.

    You should be using a 73mm b.b. sleeve with the wide (for use with 150 rear ends) cranks from race face, with the race face retro fit (adapter) kit to move from 83mm shell to 73mm shell (what you need for your v10) there are spacers supplied with the retrofit (adapter) kit from race face.

    I'm not saying you don't have the right thing, just trying to help you make sure that you do. a 83mm b.b. (x-type or shimano offering) will not thread all the way in because the inner plastic sleeve will be 10mm's too wide.

    "Raceface now offers a version of the Diabolus/ Evolve DH that will work. You need the 83mm bb shell version, which offers a 57.5mm chainline. You also need the 73mm shell adaptor kit. The normal version of the Diabolus/Evolve DH/Atlas will work poorly due to improper chainline."
     
  16. Banshee Rider

    Banshee Rider Turbo Monkey

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    Castle, what exactly comes with that kid? To me it just sounds like a couple extra bottom bracket spacers?

    Do you run this set up on a v10? If so what did you run for spacers on each side?
     
  17. Castle

    Castle Turbo Monkey

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    no but the vpfree is a 73 shelll with a 150 rear end as well. I've done this set up on a few of them, it's the best set up I've found including ISIS, which in my opinion places the chainline out a smidgen too wide, where as with the race face set up you can really dial in your chainline because of the number of different spacing configuations you can use.

    the adapter kit comes with a 73mm b.b. sleeve (plastic black) and 3 metal spacers. I don't remember the set up of those 3 spacers, best of my memory is one on the drive side and two on the non drive side. (it comes with detailed instructions)

    I had to use a 1.5mm b.b. spacer (plastic black) on the non drive side inbetween the frame and b.b. cup because of the protrusion on the vpfree frame. (guide plate iscg adapter (silver) on drive side between frame and b.b. cup)

    I also used one of the 1mm chainline spacers (white) between the drive side b.b. cup and crank arm to achieve proper roller guard/supercharger alignment. "The Lip"

    This allowed for alot of things, adequate rollerguard rotataion, proper guide alignment with supercharger, free spinning cranks (no binding), proper chainline, ability to use full range of cassette, as well as back pedal with no problems in all gears

    p.s.- I also had to remove (dremel) some of the plastic on the guide near the roller to help achieve better rollerguard rotation, new SRS-W (wide angle guide) should help with this
     
  18. Banshee Rider

    Banshee Rider Turbo Monkey

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    by one spacer on the drive side you mean 1 spacer AND the iscg plate, or just the iscg plate and having that count at your one spacer?
     
  19. Castle

    Castle Turbo Monkey

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    just the silver ISCG Adapter on the drive side between the cup and frame.

    between the crank arm and cup were the
    - 1 (black rubber) 1mm spindle spacer/seal
    -1 (silver metal) 5mm spacer (supplied with "adapter kit")
    -1 (white) 1mm spacer, then the crank arm.

    If you run a spacer behind the drive side b.b. cup plus the ISCG adapter, I can almost guarantee you'll run into binding issues (cranks that don't spin freely) once it's all set up, the x-type seems pretty finicky about this. (I ran into it in a similar situation)