FOUR reactors with core damage. Thank goodness there's no burning graphite like Chernobyl.
Say bye to any nuclear power pipedreams...
- Thread starter Silver
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What does this mean for us idiots out there
TMI was one reactor. this situation is 4x worseWhat does this mean for us idiots out there
graphite burned in Chernobyl disaster releasing a vast amount of radiation into the air after the reactor itself blew up
easy read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_accident
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Yes, as he said the graphite smoke was the vector for the radiation at Chernobyl.
Radiation has to do with electrons/protons correct? Cant we just dump a bunch of (stuff with 7 electrons) near the site and let it react to form a noble gas? I am sure its not that easy, but if a bunch of electrons are flying around, cant we just let them react and form something thats okay for our health?
*knows nothing about radioactive particles, google didnt help me either.
*knows nothing about radioactive particles, google didnt help me either.
lol, if it was that easy, the 4 reactors at this plant wouldnt be in the situation they are in now and Chernobyl's fall out wouldnt have been as bad.
they cant control the temperature of the reactors and the old, spent fuel rods (which are stored unprotected in water, very close to the sealed reactors.)
the recent explosions damaged the containment vessel that the reactors are in releasing some gas.
i talked to my friend who was a reactor engineer on a submarine as well as my g/f's father who works at TMI and they both seem to think that this is a very, very bad situation
Co-worker has a brother thats a nuclear engineer in the Navy. Co-worker said yesterday that he talked to said brother, and brother said the people in his professional circles are pooping themselves over all this. Didn't make me feel any better at all.
If its the worst (which it probably is) how far will this mess travel? cali? midwest? east coast? Diablow?
Lastly, newspaper said that tap water had it 50 miles from the site.
Lastly, newspaper said that tap water had it 50 miles from the site.
there have been many meltdowns or near-meltdowns that a lot of people dont know about, but having 4 reactors so close to each other and now another plant 6km's away thats having problems, doesnt make anyone feel good.Co-worker has a brother thats a nuclear engineer in the Navy. Co-worker said yesterday that he talked to said brother, and brother said the people in his professional circles are pooping themselves over all this. Didn't make me feel any better at all.
as said in the other thread, the 50 or so people that are still there working, should be praised by the country and the world.
Reactors are always going to be bunched together, because getting site approval is a bitch.
The bigger problem is the spent fuel...which they stored on site (not unusual) in cooling ponds above the reactors (not sure how usual that is, but what could possibly go wrong there?)
The bigger problem is the spent fuel...which they stored on site (not unusual) in cooling ponds above the reactors (not sure how usual that is, but what could possibly go wrong there?)
it'll hit most of the hemisphere, but not in levels anywhere close to damaging.
Radiation levels in Tokyo are 10X normal.
Governments are moving to the "prevent panic" mode and reports will contain significantly more bullsh!ttery as we go forward.
Governments are moving to the "prevent panic" mode and reports will contain significantly more bullsh!ttery as we go forward.
newer designs store them away from the reactors themselves and typically underground.
this particular design is 40 years old and has the spent rods just above and to the side of reactors.
Naive and uneducated, but what idiot keeps spent fuel next to a nuclear reactor? thats like a gas can above a fireplace.
That's just from all the tsunami water which came on land from out in the trenchs offshore, where radioactive waste and godzilla are stored.
Speaking of, I'm surprised godzilla didn't wake up.
40 years ago, they werent as educated as they are now.
and thats not really a good comparison.
old gas soaked rags stored underwater next to a fireplace thats sealed in a MASSIVE container, would be a better one
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Sh1t may be about to get real.
I'm not a nuclear engineer, but I believe that says they are concerned about un-contained nuclear reaction. Jesus.
And uncontrolled.
Fun times. This is getting way worse than I could have imagined when I started the thread.
isn't the ocean like, right there? why don't they just get a big dredge ship and spray the whole damn thing down. then start dropping qik crete and seal that puppy off
theyve tried something similar. the US has also loaned them two firetrucks, from the Navy i believe, that was suppose to be used to pump water into the reactors and into the containment pools for the spent rods. they also tried to use a Chinook helicopter to dump water onto the exposed containment vessels, but radiation levels were too high to do that.
the problem with bringing in all that sea water is that it obviously creates steam and thats where they believe some of the explosions are coming from.
Hmm, crappy situation getting worse.
reactor #1 "stable" with appropriate water levels at the moment
reactor #2 pressure is stable, but damage from one of the hydrogen explosions may have damaged the containment vessel and/or suppression pool (the exchange area where they put in water and vent out gas). Leaking radiation with possible partial core melt
reactor #3 **** going down.... Possible damage to the containment vessel and a dropping water level and increasing temperature in the spent fuel pond. Various reports state 20 years worth of spent fuel rods approx 514 fuel rods. Leaking radiation with possible partial core melt
reactor #4 was in storage mode, so all of the fuel is the storage pool and not in the containment vessel. They have verified two different fires that started and stopped (no longer visible..) "naturally". The storage pools water levels are possibly extremely low.
reactors #5 and #6 were in storage mode, with all of the fuel still inside containment vessels. Currently stable, but reports have been coming out that the temperatures in both are steadily rising...
All day on Wednesday TV broadcast thick white steam/smoke coming from either reactor #3 or #4. This is really bad, and as I type the aftershocks keep on coming. Sounds like reactor #3 (possibly #2) could go critical, so they want to fill the storage pool, but radiation levels are too high to get close enough even from the air to deal with reactor #3 and its too high to even visually inspect reactor #4.
The US government recommends any citizens within a 50 mile (80 km) radius evacuate.
So scientific monkeys teach me, my understanding is that during actual use the reactor is around 3000 C, after the control rods are put in it stops the reaction, but all of the residual heat still needs to be dealt with. Different reports say that heat is 3-6% of normal working temperature, around 2000 C (disclaimer I suck at the maths and am only parroting what I read). Regardless, really hot radioactive material, how do you quickly cool it?
last line of defense?
Rootbeer
reactor #1 "stable" with appropriate water levels at the moment
reactor #2 pressure is stable, but damage from one of the hydrogen explosions may have damaged the containment vessel and/or suppression pool (the exchange area where they put in water and vent out gas). Leaking radiation with possible partial core melt
reactor #3 **** going down.... Possible damage to the containment vessel and a dropping water level and increasing temperature in the spent fuel pond. Various reports state 20 years worth of spent fuel rods approx 514 fuel rods. Leaking radiation with possible partial core melt
reactor #4 was in storage mode, so all of the fuel is the storage pool and not in the containment vessel. They have verified two different fires that started and stopped (no longer visible..) "naturally". The storage pools water levels are possibly extremely low.
reactors #5 and #6 were in storage mode, with all of the fuel still inside containment vessels. Currently stable, but reports have been coming out that the temperatures in both are steadily rising...
All day on Wednesday TV broadcast thick white steam/smoke coming from either reactor #3 or #4. This is really bad, and as I type the aftershocks keep on coming. Sounds like reactor #3 (possibly #2) could go critical, so they want to fill the storage pool, but radiation levels are too high to get close enough even from the air to deal with reactor #3 and its too high to even visually inspect reactor #4.
The US government recommends any citizens within a 50 mile (80 km) radius evacuate.
So scientific monkeys teach me, my understanding is that during actual use the reactor is around 3000 C, after the control rods are put in it stops the reaction, but all of the residual heat still needs to be dealt with. Different reports say that heat is 3-6% of normal working temperature, around 2000 C (disclaimer I suck at the maths and am only parroting what I read). Regardless, really hot radioactive material, how do you quickly cool it?
last line of defense?
Rootbeer
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You don't.
On residual heat:
Normal operation of a reactor generates various radioisotopes. When you shut the reactor down, the uranium or plutonium fuel stops generation heat but the continuing decay of the isotopes generates heat for a long time.
On spent fuel pools:
The "spent" fuel continues to generates significant heat for a long time, so it's kept in water. If you fail to replenish the water, it evaporates and the fuel can get hot enough to melt the fuel so it puddles in the bottom and achieves critical mass - lots of radiation, more heat. It can catch fire - lots of really nasty smoke. This may be what's happening in reactor 4.
On the industry:
Fukushima nuclear plant owner falsified inspection records
Normal operation of a reactor generates various radioisotopes. When you shut the reactor down, the uranium or plutonium fuel stops generation heat but the continuing decay of the isotopes generates heat for a long time.
On spent fuel pools:
The "spent" fuel continues to generates significant heat for a long time, so it's kept in water. If you fail to replenish the water, it evaporates and the fuel can get hot enough to melt the fuel so it puddles in the bottom and achieves critical mass - lots of radiation, more heat. It can catch fire - lots of really nasty smoke. This may be what's happening in reactor 4.
On the industry:
Fukushima nuclear plant owner falsified inspection records
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At least the Japanese actually show shame for the things they do. If he was american, we would already be hearing how it happened because he pays too much taxes, or some equally inexplicable excuse.
and he'd probably get tens of millions of dollars(yen) when he gets fired
critical mass speaks to recriticality or reactivity excursions. As long as the water is poisoned with boron via addition of powdered boric acid, recriticality can be controlled. the big problem with an overheating spent fuel pool, is the decay heat, ensueing heat up of the zircalloy cladding and rupture of that cladding allowing previously contained fission products to escape into the environment. The additional big problem, is if those fuel pools have boiled essentially dry, tose fuel rods will be smoking hot. Adding water will spurn generation of massive amounts of hydrogen due to the zircalloy-water interaction, and BOOM!
Another concern is a BLEVE, or boiling liquid expanding vapor explosion, as was the case with at Chernobyl.
Either a BLEVE or massive H2 explosion could cause a situation whereby Jap cleanup crews will be playing pick_up_sticks with fuel rods...
Well that's refreshing considering people are already claiming the pool is dry in one of the ponds.
the video of the firefighters standing in ranks preparing to go douse the reactors, sadly reminded me of the kamikaze pilots of WWII
Finally an explanation of whats going on that I can understand! 
It's cute when it's a game show but sometimes japan kind of pisses me off.
Some good news
Tokyo's Hyper Rescue seems to have jury rigged a pump from the ocean to continually pump water into reactor #3 so work on restoring outside power to the reactors can go forward concurrently. We will have to see if those hydrogen explosions screwed the cooling systems beyond loss of power.
And the USA (rightfully so) does not trust the measurements that Tepco is releasing to the public, so they got permission to independently monitor the situation. Most specifically looking for hot spots that would indicate potential for melting. Hopefully they will make their data publicly available...
Of course cooling the reactors is not the only issue.....
just don't eat the spinach
Tokyo's Hyper Rescue seems to have jury rigged a pump from the ocean to continually pump water into reactor #3 so work on restoring outside power to the reactors can go forward concurrently. We will have to see if those hydrogen explosions screwed the cooling systems beyond loss of power.
And the USA (rightfully so) does not trust the measurements that Tepco is releasing to the public, so they got permission to independently monitor the situation. Most specifically looking for hot spots that would indicate potential for melting. Hopefully they will make their data publicly available...
NHK link
Of course cooling the reactors is not the only issue.....
just don't eat the spinach
Now if I get bit by a spider while eating the spinach, Super powers here I come!
Perhaps nuclear isn't dead afterwards, just uranium based plants. I saw a dude on TV postulating about this the other day, Sounds good if it can be achieved.
"Safer" Thorium Reactor
"Safer" Thorium Reactor
Between pebble bed (now), thorium (near term), and travelling wave (long term), there is no way nuclear is dead. The upsides just drastically outweigh the downsides. Not to mention our fears of nuclear meltdown will be outweighed by fears of cultural inferiority the minute China brings significant nuclear power online.
There is simply no other way to bridge rising energy demand to scaled clean energy sources.
As if. Americans on treadmills chasing a cheeseburger on a stick, or a picture of a new lexus could turn this planet into the sun.
Picture the dumbest, pastiest, jiggliest, most clueless english fvcktard you can possibly imagine.
Now hear what he thinks!!!
It's like a game of finding the most fvcking retarded things you could possibly say in one article.
Now hear what he thinks!!!
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-1369140/Japan-nuclear-crisis-Disaster-proves-value-safety-nuclear-power.html
It's like a game of finding the most fvcking retarded things you could possibly say in one article.