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Schwarzenegger's Decision

blt2ride

Turbo Monkey
May 25, 2005
2,332
0
Chatsworth
I believe this story, regarding convicted killer Tookie Williams, has made national news over the past few weeks. Nonetheless, curious to hear what everyone's thoughts are...do you Schwarzenegger will step in and stop Tookie's scheduled execution?

As expected, community activists are protesting the December execution. According to one activist, all the recent news about Tookie is giving him a bad name and is attacking his character. Seems to me a person who was convicted of 4 murders did that to themselves, but that's just me...

LOS ANGELES (AFP) - A US judge signed a death warrant for a former street gangster and convicted killer who went on to be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts in tackling youth violence.
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Los Angeles Superior Court Judge William Pounders set a December 13 date for the execution of Stanley "Tookie" Williams, noting that his appeal against his death sentence had been rejected by the US Supreme Court on October 11.

"I am signing the warrant of execution," the judge said as several dozen opponents of the death penalty looked on in the crowded courtroom.

Williams, who co-founded Los Angeles' deadly Crips gang, was convicted in 1981 for the murders of four people and has been incarcerated in a small cell on the death row of San Francisco's San Quentin prison since then.

But since receiving his death sentence, Williams, 51, has renounced his gang past, penned children's books, been the subject of a television movie starring Jamie Foxx and been nominated for the world's top peace prize.

"The Stanley Williams case is about a man who has done what I think is the most important thing a man can do in this country, and that is reach out to the youth of this country with books, with tapes ...," Williams lawyer, Peter Fleming, said outside the courtroom.

Williams' legal team will appeal to movie star California Governor
Arnold Schwarzenegger on November 8 for clemency and to reduce the prisoner's sentence from death to life in prison without the possibility of parole.

The Supreme Court's decision earlier this month cleared the way for Williams' execution by lethal injection -- unless Schwarzenegger intervenes. But no condemned murderer has been granted clemency in California since 1967.

Outside the courthouse, demonstrators held up signs proclaiming "Executions Teach Vengeance and Violence", "Abolish the Death Penalty" and "Stop the Execution of Stanley Tookie Williams -- Keeping Him Alive Saves Lives."

A number of Williams' supporters chanted, "Let Tookie live!"

Williams was 16 when he and a high school friend -- Raymond Washington, who was later killed -- began the Crips street gang in South Los Angeles in 1971.

Known as "Big Took" to fellow Crips, Williams helped build the gang into a nationwide criminal enterprise that continues to spawn street violence more than 30 years later.

He was convicted and sentenced to death for committing four 1979 murders, but he has consistently maintained his innocence.

The first victim in the killings, which took place during two separate robberies two weeks apart, was a 23-year-old convenience store worker.

A witnessed who received immunity from prosecution testified at trial that he, Williams and two other men took 120 dollars from the store's cash register before Williams shot the young man execution-style and mocked the gurgling sounds the victim made as he lay dying.

Williams was also found guilty of the shotgun murders of a family of three people in a Los Angeles motel.

Williams, who presented an alibi for his whereabouts at the time of the killings, argued in his appeal that Los Angeles County prosecutors had engaged in racial discrimination by seeking to keep black people off his trial jury.
 

Reactor

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2005
3,976
1
Chandler, AZ, USA
I have very mixed feelings.

I don't like the idea of society killing people. It seems wrong for society to take the moral high ground and say it's able to judge people for murder, and kill someone as a penalty. There's also a fair number of people in prison, and presumedly on death row, that are not guilty of the crimes for which they have been accused.

As the co-founder of the crips, Tookie has left a legacy of violence crime that will out-live him, even if he gets life in prison. I'm not sure there is anything he can do to negate it. I believe people can change...look at me I was once a Republican :D. I'm not sure his change in genuine, or a long drawn out act, trying to save his life. In the end whether or not he killed those people he is guilty of a lot, probably as bad or worse.

I don't think Arnold will stop the execution.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
are you asking about this particular situation or the death penalty in general?

Either way, I only support the death penalty for cases where it's clear-cut that if they escaped, they'd kill/rape/harm again. Like Charles Manson... how is he still alive?
 

Slugman

Frankenbike
Apr 29, 2004
4,024
0
Miami, FL
LOS ANGELES (AFP) - A US judge signed a death warrant for a former street gangster and convicted killer who went on to be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts in tackling youth violence.
Little tidbit for everyone - anyone can be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Hell, I could submit N8 for one... does that mean they deserve it? That's what the committee decides. He has been nominated several times and never received it, and there is a reason for that...

Schwarzenegger would be a fool to stop this execution; the guy started a ruthless gang by being ruthless himself. They were not fighting for equal rights; they were fighting for control of illegal activities.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
LordOpie said:
are you asking about this particular situation or the death penalty in general?

Either way, I only support the death penalty for cases where it's clear-cut that if they escaped, they'd kill/rape/harm again. Like Charles Manson... how is he still alive?
Read "Helter Skelter" by Vincent Bugliosi if you have a chance. Great book, he was the prosecuting attorney. Manson wasn't even at the Tate murders and as far as I can remember didn't actually murder anyone himself but was of course responsible for the murders in that he ordered them done.
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
valve bouncer said:
Read "Helter Skelter" by Vincent Bugliosi if you have a chance. Great book, he was the prosecuting attorney. Manson wasn't even at the Tate murders and as far as I can remember didn't actually murder anyone himself but was of course responsible for the murders in that he ordered them done.
*shrugs*

I saw an interview with him a few years back and he specifically said that he'd kill or convince others to kill on his behalf again if he got out. Well, I was convinced by his words.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
LordOpie said:
*shrugs*

I saw an interview with him a few years back and he specifically said that he'd kill or convince others to kill on his behalf again if he got out. Well, I was convinced by his words.
I don't think you'll have to worry, they'll never let him out. What's it been now 35 years? He'll die in prison and rightly so.
 

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
to get executed over one murdrer could be questionable. THeres always that shred of reasonable doubt that they have the wrong man. Once you start putting notches in your belt like this guy though that doubt tends to fade away. If they find you guilty of four murders odds are your guilty of atleast one of them, either way your a probably peice of sh#t anywho. I say let em swing. YOu could spend all the money you save keepin him alive on getting illegal aliens liscences or something
 

N8 v2.0

Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Oct 18, 2002
11,003
149
The Cleft of Venus
Slugman said:
Little tidbit for everyone - anyone can be nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize. Hell, I could submit N8 for one... does that mean they deserve it? That's what the committee decides. He has been nominated several times and never received it, and there is a reason for that...
Hell, that murdering terrorist Arafat won the Nobel Prize...

http://nobelprize.org/peace/laureates/1994/
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
valve bouncer said:
I don't think you'll have to worry, they'll never let him out. What's it been now 35 years? He'll die in prison and rightly so.
As I said before, my concern is escaping. I remember one year in Florida where three murderers escaped. There are signs along the road for miles near a prison in the middle of nowhere in Arizona that say, "Don't pick up hitchhikers"... cuz they periodically have prisoners escaping.

If they made a prison that was impossible to escape from and they never parolled killers, then I would be against the death penalty.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
LordOpie said:
As I said before, my concern is escaping. I remember one year in Florida where three murderers escaped. There are signs along the road for miles near a prison in the middle of nowhere in Arizona that say, "Don't pick up hitchhikers"... cuz they periodically have prisoners escaping.

If they made a prison that was impossible to escape from and they never parolled killers, then I would be against the death penalty.
I think you've watched "Escape from Alcatraz" a few too many times. Anyway didn't a bloke escape from death row somewhere a while back?
 

The Amish

Dumber than N8
Feb 22, 2005
645
0
Jimmy carter won the prize for his peace work with north korea.
What does that tell you about that prizes worth. I'D PUT MORE VALUE ON A WATCH FROM A GUMBALL MACHINE
 

LordOpie

MOTHER HEN
Oct 17, 2002
21,022
3
Denver
valve bouncer said:
I think you've watched "Escape from Alcatraz" a few too many times. Anyway didn't a bloke escape from death row somewhere a while back?
are you teasing me or making my point for me?

We're in America buddy, the Good Old US of A where every criminal has the right to attempt escape and rape and murder if he or she succeeds.

I'm not paranoid, just sadly realistic :(
 

fluff

Monkey Turbo
Sep 8, 2001
5,673
2
Feeling the lag
Why are we killing people? Is it as punishment, vengeance, to stop them reoffending or for the good of society?

If it as punishment or vengeance then we are little better than the murderers, if it is for either of the latter reasons then there is an argument that clemency would do more good than killing this guy.

He cannot reoffend whilst incarcerated (well, pretty much), appears to show geniune signs of remorse and is doing work to help stop others following the same path.

Killing him does not bring any of his victims back.
 

DRB

unemployed bum
Oct 24, 2002
15,242
0
Watchin' you. Writing it all down.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/20/texas.execution.ap/index.html

Doubts are being cast on the guilt of a Texas man executed more than a dozen years ago after the crime's lone witness recanted and a co-defendant said he allowed his friend to be falsely accused under police pressure, the Houston Chronicle reported Sunday.
Sam D. Millsap Jr., then the Bexar County district attorney who decided to charge Cantu with capital murder, told the newspaper he never should have sought the death penalty in a case based on testimony from an eyewitness who identified a suspect only after police showed him Cantu's photo three separate times.