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[serious] looking for input on rear boingers

'size

Turbo Monkey
May 30, 2007
1,921
249
AZ
serious tag is serious. boingers are serious business.

leverage curve is blue line:


terrain is all lines with some other trails with more 2-4" rocks embedded over the entire trail:

currently on a float factory dps w/corset can. the corset helped the small bump and midstroke but the shock is still generally harsh at speed with little adjustment.

looking at :
dbair il
db coil inline
float x2
dhx2

i'm leaning towards the coil options after riding my old coil lyrik for the last month but i'm not opposed to air as the large cans take a lot of the initial stiction out, which i've never really had an issue with on the dps/corset setup.

so based purely on the curve and terrain which way would you, the 'can't take anything seriously' experts of RM lean? also, shimz.
 

Flo33

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2015
1,318
563
Styria
I'm opting for coil. That leverage curve is perfectly suitable for a coil boinger. Only downside can be weight, but we are on the downhill forum, so that is a no-problem.

Depending on Anti Squat values some sort of climb switch could be useful.

Go coil and never look back.
 

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
9,908
329
NORCAL is the hizzle
I just put a Float X2 on my Hightower LT and am super-stoked so far. As compared to the stock DPX2, it's more compliant off the top (not as good as a coil, but still, much improved) yet also more supportive in the mid-stroke. In other words, precisely what I was looking for.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
2,126
742
Northern California
Depends on how much progressivity you like. That’s like ~15% total, fairly linear through the last half, and there’s only 140mm of total travel. I’d prefer air on that as I likely wouldn’t be happy with the small/medium bump compliance with the high coil spring rate I’d need to run to avoid harsh bottoming. YMMV.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
10,752
2,909
AK
Best coil would be something with an extra large bumper, like I have on my Avy tuned rc4, the regression towards the end of travel is concerning. SoMo will exaggerate the stiction of an air shock and 140mm will feel like short travel there. You can ride with less, but you'll be held back IME.
 

Happymtb.fr

Monkey
Feb 9, 2016
952
324
SWE
I am with @djjohnr and @Jm_ on that one. 15% is borderline progression wise for a coil depending on how hard you are riding and how stiff a spring rate of the top you can tolerate. The old trusty DHX RC4 with the air assist to its minimum combined with a thick bottom out bumper might give you the necessary end of stroke support without compromising too much the initial sensitivity.

My recent experience with coil swap on trail bikes was as follows: I had an X2 on a Devinci Troy with 140mm of travel which was great, actually the best air rear suspension I ever had. I swapped the X2 for a Holy Grail from Fast Suspension and became blessed by an even better sensibility at the beginning of the stroke and less harshness deep in the stroke. I wasn't bottoming out with the X2 and wouldn't have said it was harsh before trying the Holy Grail but the coil made the bike feel smooth and bottomless toward the end of the stroke. The Troy is quite progressive with around 23% of progression for the LR.
On the other hand, I equipped my Devinci Django with 120mm of travel and only 11% of progression with a modified thin shafted DHX RC4. With the original spring weight recommended by Dave Garland, the ride was very smooth but I could bottom out the shock just by pushing hard on the pedals... I went for the next spring rate, change the oil for a heavier one, added a thicker bumper and minimised the size of the IFP chamber to what was physically possible. Now I do still bottom out on a 1 meter drop but the rest of my riding is OK. I actually suspect that this repeated bottoming out bend the chainstay on the drive side, I found a bump in the middle of the stay with no scratch and I have no recollection of crashing hard with the bike...
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
16,775
1,444
01776
I think I'd grab whatever has the best bottom out resistance on a bike like that. I'd probably stick with air for the ability to tune the spring curve better, add lots of rubber bands. Can you still crank the reservoir on the DHX2/floater2? what about the new fox float with the reservoir?

I haven't seen whether the CCDBs have switched to a larger negative spring yet, but I'd probably avoid those for their linearity/lack of bottom out ramp.
 

'size

Turbo Monkey
May 30, 2007
1,921
249
AZ
What he said.
any reason for the x2 over the dbair il? other than the reliability issues i've heard about and also heard have been pretty much fixed on the new model, is the performance that much better?

i guess i should have added that i'm currently running the dps/corset with 0 volume spacers and haven't had an issue with bottom out. i regularly use ~90% travel but have yet to clunk. the shock came stock with the smallest spacer installed which i removed after never getting more than ~80% travel on my most ridden trails without dropping the spring rate to a saggy wallowing mess. the trails i ride most often don't have a ton of big hit/deep stroke g-out terrain. it's mostly lots of small to mid-sized beginning stroke high frequency stuff which is why i was leaning towards coil.

and thanks for the input everyone.
 

jackalope

Mental acuity - 1%
Jan 9, 2004
6,244
3,025
in a single wide, cooking meth...
I don't have any experience with the X2, but by many accounts, it's the proverbial poop emoji provided it's tuned properly and you don't have the exploding air can version (although I think someone on here had a new one shit the bed suddenly).

I just switched from a CC inline coil to a CC inline air (new one btw), and while I only have one ride on it so far and still need to dial it in, it performed great and provided more pop and overall support (which is what I was looking for). I've had great luck with CC stuff, but I know several monkies have not, so we'll see about the long term reliability. I will say the weight savings is obviously nice compared to a coil option (even those with fancy alloy springs). I'm on an OG Megatrail btw, which I think has about a 18% progression for the LR.
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
2,404
605
Have you thought about the Manitou McLeod? I have heard good things and bought one recently super cheap to test it. Didn't get the chance to try it yet.
 

kidwoo

Celebrating No-Pants Day
Aug 25, 2003
24,297
3,358
In my pants
I don't have any experience with the X2, but by many accounts, it's the proverbial poop emoji provided it's tuned properly and you don't have the exploding air can version (although I think someone on here had a new one shit the bed suddenly).

I just switched from a CC inline coil to a CC inline air (new one btw), and while I only have one ride on it so far and still need to dial it in, it performed great and provided more pop and overall support (which is what I was looking for). I've had great luck with CC stuff, but I know several monkies have not, so we'll see about the long term reliability. I will say the weight savings is obviously nice compared to a coil option (even those with fancy alloy springs). I'm on an OG Megatrail btw, which I think has about a 18% progression for the LR.
Actually yeah, given the price differences that's a good option too. I had and OG inline air that worked great for a year and a half that I had that bike. Just don't put a coil on that bike unless it's an 11-6. It has the same basic curve shape as my RFX. Unfortunately "designed for an air shock" usually means "only an air shock works".
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
2,126
742
Northern California
any reason for the x2 over the dbair il? other than the reliability issues i've heard about and also heard have been pretty much fixed on the new model, is the performance that much better?

i guess i should have added that i'm currently running the dps/corset with 0 volume spacers and haven't had an issue with bottom out. i regularly use ~90% travel but have yet to clunk. the shock came stock with the smallest spacer installed which i removed after never getting more than ~80% travel on my most ridden trails without dropping the spring rate to a saggy wallowing mess. the trails i ride most often don't have a ton of big hit/deep stroke g-out terrain. it's mostly lots of small to mid-sized beginning stroke high frequency stuff which is why i was leaning towards coil.

and thanks for the input everyone.
I currently own both the X2 and DBAir IL (as well as a DHX2). The X2 had to go back to Fox for the recall, then when I got it back from them it was fucked and had to go back again. Since then it's been fine. I just got the DBAir IL last week, and there was air in the damper out of the box so it's gone back to CC. So from a reliability standpoint pick whichever one has it's service center closest to you :D. I've only done a quick pedal around the street with the CC shock, so I can't tell you anything about the air spring or damper characteristics yet, however initiation from topout/lack of stiction is at least on par with the X2.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
10,909
1,198
Seattle
any reason for the x2 over the dbair il? other than the reliability issues i've heard about and also heard have been pretty much fixed on the new model, is the performance that much better?

i guess i should have added that i'm currently running the dps/corset with 0 volume spacers and haven't had an issue with bottom out. i regularly use ~90% travel but have yet to clunk. the shock came stock with the smallest spacer installed which i removed after never getting more than ~80% travel on my most ridden trails without dropping the spring rate to a saggy wallowing mess. the trails i ride most often don't have a ton of big hit/deep stroke g-out terrain. it's mostly lots of small to mid-sized beginning stroke high frequency stuff which is why i was leaning towards coil.

and thanks for the input everyone.
I don't have much experience with the DB IL, so I can't really comment on that, but I ran both a DB Air and an X2 on my Megatrail. The X2 most notably had better mid stroke support, and could be tuned to be significantly more progressive if using a bunch of volume spacers. I found both of those to be quite desirable on that bike, but I also tend to like a lot of progression in my rear suspension. The dampers feel really similar (unsurprisingly, given that they're very similar designs, and Fox hired a CC engineer to work on that damper) but the better air spring on the Fox was a win for me. It's not a big enough difference to necessarily be worth the upgrade if you already have a CC, but if you're buying something either way, I'd go with the Fox.

I've had two on two different bikes, and apart from one getting warrantied for the earlier exploding air can (mine did not explode and was fixed proactively) I've had no issues with either.
 

Jm_

Turbo Monkey
Jan 14, 2002
10,752
2,909
AK
It is, but from experience, it's a hard trail to make an air shock feel really good on, even if it feels ok elsewhere.