Service guarantees citizenship!
- Thread starter dante
- Start date
It actually sounds like a pretty decent plan so far. There are tons of immigrants serving who are not granted citizenship for years. I believe it is the absolute least the USA can do to those who are putting their lives on the line.
Make other people do our dirty work so we don't have to hear about American dead and thus, can keep living undisturbed in our bubbles...
A terrible movie in fact.
i think it's an outstanding idea. i served with several immigrants who were working toward citizenship. they were some of the most dedicated guys i served with.
Much better than a draft, and they gotta come from somewhere.
Like Manimal said, I bet they make natives look like ass more often than not.
Like Manimal said, I bet they make natives look like ass more often than not.
I have personally meet a lot of soldiers, airmen, marines when i was in Iraq, way too many times, that were from other countries and working on their citizenship.
If anyone wants to put their life on their line to make a better living for themselves and their families fighting for a country that they are not even a citizen of yet, you will definitely get my vote.
These men and women were an absolute pleasure and privilege to work with and I am glad that there will be a quicker avenue for them.
Immigrants for the most part are some of the hardest, most under-appreciated people in this country.
If anyone wants to put their life on their line to make a better living for themselves and their families fighting for a country that they are not even a citizen of yet, you will definitely get my vote.
These men and women were an absolute pleasure and privilege to work with and I am glad that there will be a quicker avenue for them.
Immigrants for the most part are some of the hardest, most under-appreciated people in this country.
Don't you see, that's the problem, when there is a draft we won't fight illegitimate wars, the public won't allow it.
All this does is further remove the American element from military service, and thus in the process further disconnect American society from the realities of the wars they bring on other lands.
This is a bad thing.
Hell, why don't we make sure that all the Mexicans are in a parachute division? We can call them the "Mexican Jumping Beans".
That's what a real empire would do...
That's what a real empire would do...
Sort of the way we worked over black soldiers in World War II?
I wouldn't want to further dilute the mass numbers of American Indians that currently make up our military with foreigners or anything.
You do realize how this country was founded, don't you?
I have never agreed with going into Iraq, but the hard truth is our numbers in recruiting and retention have been on a slide ever since. Those numbers need to be back filled in the event we have a LEGITIMATE war come up any time soon.
Great Book, one of my absolute favorites. I was Very very dissapointed with the movie.
We should just contract out Mexico to do all the work for the US.
Seems to work for VW.
Contracting out military work seemed to work for the Romans too...
We are an Empire in decline.
sic transit gloria mundi
Not necessarily. I read an article the other week saying that the US is still in the golden age. I don't have the time to search for it, but it was a part of the John Mauldin weekly econ newsletters.
maybe it's the beer I've been drinking, but you know that you can't offer up a rebuttal with the only proof being that you read an article somewhere that came to a different conclusion, right?
agreed. call me crazy but i'm all for mandatory "service" for 2 years after graduating high school. (israel) "service" could mean anything from military to civil service to some type of peace corps....just something with a structured basic training that promotes responsibility and discipline. if you pull your 2 years successfully then wham..college is paid for and/or citizenship granted.
and yes, i know that idea leans towards socialism...but i'll compromise
Public University should be free to citizens anyway.agreed. call me crazy but i'm all for mandatory "service" for 2 years after graduating high school. (israel) "service" could mean anything from military to civil service to some type of peace corps....just something with a structured basic training that promotes responsibility and discipline. if you pull your 2 years successfully then wham..college is paid for and/or citizenship granted.
and yes, i know that idea leans towards socialism...but i'll compromise
I think we are an empire preparing to take a large step forward in the imperial conquest, not one in decline.
Touche. After a long day at work and a bourbon, I finally found it.maybe it's the beer I've been drinking, but you know that you can't offer up a rebuttal with the only proof being that you read an article somewhere that came to a different conclusion, right?
http://www.investorsinsight.com/blogs/john_mauldins_outside_the_box/archive/2009/01/22/the-next-100-years.aspx
You are kidding, right?
Why not? I haven't paid a cent of mine and I graduated in 1994.
doesn't work out so well for us pig-headed vw owners, however. my desktop bg for the last year is the hindenberg with the caption:
"German Engineering: anyone in the market for a VW?"
if we keep subsidizing non-citizens' education, i guess this "logically" follows
why would he kid about simultaneously squashing the free market of ideas and the free market proper?
to him, education == wisdom
I have not paid a cent of mine either, directly. I have earned it as a benefit of my job choices. But in the US, everyone has their hands out and expects something for free. This misplaced sense of entitlement and priviledge "just because..." is one of the big problems around here...
And why not? Is education not the most valuable asset to a Democracy? Is education not the most prominent way in which a person is able to realize his potential? Isn't education the very manifestation of opportunity (socioeconomically)?
If you don't believe in free education you should re-evaluate your views on equal opportunity and self government. Maybe you don't want a healthy Democracy, ignorant masses are easier control after all, just look at talk radio.
You would have been one of those who fought the idea of public education when it first sprouted...
Besides, knowledge is a privilege not a right, if you want it, you gotta pay.
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I believe in free and available primary and secondary education, and total access to all regardless.
However, when it comes to college and other post secondary education, I value mine all that much more because I paid for it.
Education is not the manifestation of opportunity. What one does with his or her education is far more important than the education itself. Many skid row types have advanced degrees with which they have done NOTHING.
Further, if you think your education is all resultant from formalized instruction, you are sadly mistaken.
Arent you agreeing with me through your last statement?
However, when it comes to college and other post secondary education, I value mine all that much more because I paid for it.
Education is not the manifestation of opportunity. What one does with his or her education is far more important than the education itself. Many skid row types have advanced degrees with which they have done NOTHING.
Further, if you think your education is all resultant from formalized instruction, you are sadly mistaken.
Arent you agreeing with me through your last statement?
I haven't said that at all, but what I will say is that education and knowledge are so crucial to the human experience that it is in a sense, criminal to charge money for them.
Besides free education is merely society's investment in its own future.
"Many" is not a logical argument, do you have figures to support the claim that a prevalence of "skid row types" exists to the degree that it justifies not providing all the hard working and productive people out there free education?
Only if you accept sarcasm as agreement.
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Well in Australia you have to pay extra tax if you're a graduate once you've reached a certain income level so in that respect it's not "free" (though it was when I started my degree). I don't live in Australia so I don't pay. Plenty of countries provide free university education though, I actually think the US might be in the minority as regards to the high cost of tuition borne by the individual user.
people can and should be free to read wikipedia at their local public library. i don't think everyone is suitable for college, however, and not everyone should go, certainly not on the public's tab. public universities shouldn't be exorbitantly expensive for sure, but your argument for making it free is less than compelling.
It has more to do with a difference in philosophy, my argument holds water, it is in action in various places around the globe.
Hold on, let me Google "Skid row demographics" for you. No, of course I dont have figures behind my outlandish claim, just like you dont have any to back up your "education is socities investment in its future" feel good pablum, mainly because neither can be proven conclusively.
Who will pay for "free" education? The taxpayers. And what is their payoff? Other than educations for thier downtrodden children? The ones that the uber rich could afford to educate anyway, yet the middle class and below probably not?
My brother has a degree in Geological Engineering, yet works as a chef. So his education was 4+ years wasted in pursuit of something he does not use. This would have been a quality expenditure of taxpayer money in a free educational system? He paid for his own education, btw. Mainly by working 60 plus hours per week.
Like it or not, education in search of a degree has become a pay for play enterprise in the US, and the $$ supports many other facets of our institutions of higher learning (Intercollegiate sports, research libraries, educations for underpriviledged students) that for whatever reason have become an integral part of our American educational landscape. It would be impossible for the US to start offering QUALITY, across the board, free education now. I am just not seeing it...
If you are in search of a degree, go to school. In search of knowledge, hit the library or the internet. Wikipedia is your friend.
Seriously, I know a lot of people who have gone through 300 credits of junior college for no reason other than they are going to school. I also know a lot of people who were lucky to make it through high school at best.
I think higher education should be made available for a reason (like Texas offers free state schools for National Guard service). That's why I agree with this program, I would rather have people earn citizenship through commitment rather than birth right.
Thats how I pade four mi kollege ejamakashun...thank you Illinois!
i too see much merit to this program, but no sure i'm on board w/ your position that citizenship cannot be inherited. i may be with you if your belief is that being popped out is insufficient (i.e., parents were non-citizens), as i think that fell out of favor 2 generations into our country's independence from the throne.