[iRider]

I had an Uzzi, it is a POS. Definitely a noodle and it tracked like ****, although part of that was the Boxxer. I love how stiff and solid my Session is, combined with the Fox 40 it goes exactly where I want it to, almost like the bike just does what I'm thinking.

You are comparing an Uzzi to a Session?

 

[staike]

The "custom" dhx5 on the '09 Session 88 is actually pretty good. I haven't tried differnt shocks on my Session, but a pro I was riding with a couple years ago started out with the dhx5 and also used vivid coil and air shocks (the air was a prototype at the time), and he recommended keeping the dhx. He said he doesn't like dhx in general, but felt it worked really well on the Session. I don't know about the dhx4 you had, didn't know that was even an option, must have come on a Session 8?

Yeah, it might be that the DHX was dying already before I got it, I bought it second hand. I opened it up to check it out the other day and it looked well used... will do a full service on it and keep it as a spare. Yes it came with my Session 8 2010.

 

[Wa-Aw]

Update

The Session didn't make in time for a local race so I had to borrow a friend's round tube DHR. Got a good amount of runs on it and was getting fairly confident with it by the end of the weekend.



Just got the Session built up, had one day's ride on it.

View attachment 110205

Unfortunately, collapsed my newly ACL-less knee while packing down a jump at the end of the test day so probably another week before the swelling subsides and I can ride again. I'll post comparisons when I get some decent hours on it! CCDB's taking a bit of time to tune, too.

 

[kidwoo]

Damn dude, get that thing in a brace!

 

[Wa-Aw]

(Pretty long reply so I'll throw in some random pics)

I like the bike a lot. It's not perfect but it is an excellent bike for places where the courses aren't very rough and where you end up doing a lot of pedaling on the course or getting to the courses. I'd say for an average rider it's probably one of the best DH bikes you can get when it comes to use-ability.



I haven't actually tried my own Session with the stock DHX 5 yet, went straight to the CCDB. It's is very compliant compared to the dhx, you can really feel the air preload when you play with the shocks w/o springs. But for this reason the Session bobs with the CCDB (never tried the CCDB with other bikes). I have tried other sessions with the dhx and the bob is almost non existent. I can feel the LSC become excessive when I try to tune out the bob on the CCDB. Fine tuning the CCDB to the Session has been challenging in general. I'll start with the recommended setting malcolm sent me:

The Session we have here and the ones we have set up, all end up using hardly any compression.

You'll want about 25-28% sag (measured at the shock).
Open all adjusters counter clockwise. Be careful with the low speed adjusters they have small clicks, when you get near the end of the adjustment range and you feel resistance stop.
Turn Adjusters clockwise

HSR- 2.5-3 turns in from all out (went a little slower)
LSR - 10-12 clicks from all out (went a little slower)
HSC - 0.25-0.75 turns in from all out (about right for me)
LSC – 3-5 clicks in from all out (went a little higher, I'm partial to a more damped ride)



I find myself changing the settings on the LSC, HSC and HSR a lot depending on the track, if I want stability at low speed vs high speed or i want it to pedal better. I haven't been able to find a good middle ground set and forget setting (or maybe I should just ride thing more!) In generally the bike handles extremely well at high speeds. It gets hung up on square edges quite a bit at low speed but this maybe just because my 2 previous bikes have been VPP and they did pretty well in this aspect. It's nothing that being more aggressive can't compensate for.



As per the frames Session vs DHR, Here's a run down.

Session:

• Very stiff
  
• Brakes almost completely neutral. It feels like you are bucking when you are used to brake squat but once you get the hang of it you can brake through almost any rough stuff. Probably really bad for braking discipline!
  
• Great tire clearance
  
• Pedals great
  
• Seems to push you towards a more disciplined, less on-the-edge wild riding style. Can't really explain this. Certain frames push me to ride differently. I have noticed this with other riders so I'll just assume the cumulative characteristics of bikes do this.
  
• Rebound can be "aggressive" at times.
  
• For some reason this bike is noisy, haven't quite figured out why yet
  
• Not as bottomless in the travel as I would have liked. CCDB has no BO adjust and I like the HSC where it's at. I do feel the bottom more than I would like to (compared to previous bikes). This has kind of made me think the CCDB may not be perfect for this bike. The air would probably be better.
  
• Easy to clean!

Round-Tube DHR:

It had a DHX on it, would have love to tried one with a CCDB, seems like the perfect frame for that shock.

• Made you ride aggressively! Making it quite a fun ride. It flexes and pops out of corners just enough to scare you a bit and stay stable. Not sure if it's faster though.
  
• Personally I like the way it brake squats
  
• It's kind of rough. When you start it hit it at speed it usually just pops off the first few hits and floats through the rest. Great fun but kind tough when you want to corner or brake in the rough
  
• Difficult to ride if you aren't being aggressive. Or at least you wouldn't be taking advantage of the frame's strong points.
  
• It feels solid enough when messing around with it on the parking lot but you can feel the rear straining on sideways landings.
  
• I wish it had a 1.5 head tube for anglesets.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

Great review and comparsion of the two bikes.

It gets hung up on square edges quite a bit at low speed but this maybe just because my 2 previous bikes have been VPP and they did pretty well in this aspect.

Almost everyone who rode a Session88 noticed that. This is a result of the relative low pivot point of the swingarm and a somewhat steep leverage curve.
The new Session has therefor a bit more travel and the leverage curve during midtravel has a bit changed. I think it has a more linear curve than the older ones.
And yes, you can brake almost everywhere. The downside of this "advantage" is, that it is really difficult to drift (skid), which is a bit of PITA on tight tracks. Did you notice that also?
Maybe thats the reason, why you can't get that wild on the Session.

 

[Wa-Aw]

Now that you mention it, I do realize this now. It's difficult to initiate a drift or skid the rear end out on tight stuff, probably because it's still glued to the ground on braking. The bike in general doesn't like to get sideways when not in the air.

Another thing I'd like to follow up is that the bike stays up in it's travel really well, the probably could have gone quite a bit lower on the BB.

Head angle seems way slacker than the advertised 65 as well.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

I ride a 888 up front and with the standard clamp height of Marzos I get a head angle of 64°.

The bike in general doesn't like to get sideways when not in the air.

Exactly what I expirience on this bike. The rear end stays almost glued on the line, even with the rear brake locked. This makes the bike really stable on fast tracks, but at the other side you have to work really hard in tight corners.

Edit: I'm really interested how the Devinci Wilson behaves compared to the Session, as they both use the split pivot.

 

[norbar]

I ride a 888 up front and with the standard clamp height of Marzos I get a head angle of 64°.



Exactly what I expirience on this bike. The rear end stays almost glued on the line, even with the rear brake locked. This makes the bike really stable on fast tracks, but at the other side you have to work really hard in tight corners.

I don't own a session and had a short time on it but I wouldn't say it's glued to the line in the line as it skips over the rought a bit. It just won't brake traction in braking as easy as for example my Legend which sticks to the ground better 99% on the market but is easier to get sideways.

 

[Mo(n)arch]

True. I should have written in not too rough (bikepark like) conditions. As you said, in the rougher stuff it skips.

 

[William42]

yeah, mine HA is sittin right around 64.3 I think with my boxxer, although that changes somewhat regularly when I adjust crown height.

its interesting to hear you say that about the ccdb, I considered it in the past, but in the end that's exactly why I decided to forgo getting one, as I feel like I really need that bottom out resistance to make the bike ride properly. I'm 3/4 markers in on my bottom out knob, anything less and it can get pretty harsh on drops. Don't know what exactly you can do about that with the ccdb other then cranking up the HSC, but seems like that might make it pretty harsh elsewhere.

Its definitely a bike that requires some pumping and working with the terrain, rather then just getting to monster truck over everything, but its good enough at it and makes up for it in the corners, jumps and drops that overall I like mine a lot!

 

[norbar]

I thought the session was fairly progressive. Why would you need more bottom out resistance?

 

[William42]

I have no idea what the leverage curve looks like, so I can't really comment on whether its fairly progressive compared to other bikes, only that things start getting pretty...bottomout-y so hard it hurts my ankles when I don't have a lot of B.O. resistance. But, in fairness, I am a stupid hack, and frequently spend my time overshooting or undershooting jumps. And in some circles, I might be considered a filthy freeride hucker, because I don't have PJ's, sometimes ride with shorts, I don't have a tld helmet, and sometimes I've been known to do big drops and jumps that aren't even part of a race course. Hell, I even have an adjustable seatpost clamp, its not even bolt on!

But yeah, what I'm getting at is, with proper B.O resistance it feels pretty bottomless and amazing.

I've also noticed that the rebound is aggressive when I'm hitting lots of jumps and drops, and it packs up if I'm running it slow for jumps and drops. Luckily, most of the trails I ride tend to be one or the other, or at least have clearly setup sections for each, where a few twists of the rebound knob isn't a big deal.

 

[norbar]

I have no idea what the leverage curve looks like, so I can't really comment on whether its fairly progressive compared to other bikes, only that things start getting pretty...bottomout-y so hard it hurts my ankles when I don't have a lot of B.O. resistance. But, in fairness, I am a stupid hack, and frequently spend my time overshooting or undershooting jumps. And in some circles, I might be considered a filthy freeride hucker, because I don't have PJ's, sometimes ride with shorts, I don't have a tld helmet, and sometimes I've been known to do big drops and jumps that aren't even part of a race course. Hell, I even have an adjustable seatpost clamp, its not even bolt on!

But yeah, what I'm getting at is, with proper B.O resistance it feels pretty bottomless and amazing.

I've also noticed that the rebound is aggressive when I'm hitting lots of jumps and drops, and it packs up if I'm running it slow for jumps and drops. Luckily, most of the trails I ride tend to be one or the other, or at least have clearly setup sections for each, where a few twists of the rebound knob isn't a big deal.

Maybe go for the CCDB air? I'm still thinking about one for my legend. The rc4 bottom out adjust is nice though.

 

[Wa-Aw]

CCDB Air would sound perfect on a Session (9.9 omnomnom).

I say the Session is bottom-y since the rear clearly bottoms before my fork when I have my fork settings where I like them, though 36 Floats can be quite progressive. I'm also running a 400lb (I'm 155-160lbs) spring which is more than I thought I would run on a bike with 8" of travel and a 2.75 stroke. Malcolm does recommend a hard set up on sag. Is this what's needed to avoid BO? Maybe also the cause for the aggressive rebound?

What I mean by aggressive rebound: When hitting deep travel impacts the bike tends to rebound right away unlike on previous bikes where there would be a slight delay in (I'm not sure how to say this) shock motion or oil flow. I don't know if this is because of the shock or the bike. It's not a bad thing. It's great when riding hard and aggressive but it can get you off guard some times when you're JRA. I nearly got bounced off hard the other day on the way home from a ride! Do other Sessions/CCDB'd bikes act like this?

I've also noticed that the rebound is aggressive when I'm hitting lots of jumps and drops, and it packs up if I'm running it slow for jumps and drops. Luckily, most of the trails I ride tend to be one or the other, or at least have clearly setup sections for each, where a few twists of the rebound knob isn't a big deal.

I think this is where the CCDB comes into it's element. I can safely say mine just doesn't pack up and doesn't buck (nor bottom now that I think about it) on high speed rough stuff such as plowing extended rockies. This aggressive rebound thing only seems to happen on lame stuff like small drops or jumps.

 

[Verskis]

Agressive rebound sounds like too little high speed rebound to me.

 

[William42]

Agressive rebound sounds like too little high speed rebound to me.

I agree, but I have a dhx5 and they're not separate. And as mentioned, having separate adjusters like the ccdb comes with other problems. I would definitely like to try a vivid air on it, but, while were being totally honest here, its still my favorite bike ever and we're grasping straws here.

and wow, you're running a 400lb spring and you're getting 28% sag at 150-160lbs? I'm on a 450lb spring at 170 (geared), and thinking about moving up. I wonder what our springs actually measure out to, that seems really soft.

 

[davec113]

I definitely agree with everyone's findings, and great review Wa-Aw!

The hangup on square edge hits is about the only weak point I can find... not the best dh rig for plowing rock gardens, but it'll do it. It does seem rare to find a section of trail where this is a real issue, though it does crop up here and there. The very start of Winter Park's Boulevard run features a flat rock garden entry obstacle, and my friend smokes me through it on his v10C, and while he's a good rider, I'm not much slower and most of it IS the bike. It's gotta be slow speed, low angle, and super rocky to the point you can't avoid plowing the rear end into square edge rocks for it to be noticeable. A skilled rider can certainly make it less of an issue as well. As Monarch mentioned, the sus on the '12 has been slightly revised to deal with this.

The HA on my '09 w/40 sitting low in the clamps is 64-64.5 or so. I think spec was 65, it's at least .5 slacker than that...

It feels bottomless to me until I make a mistake and hit something real hard, otherwise I never feel it slam into the bottom out bumper.

I think the bb height is perfect. Its already a lot lower than my trailbike (Remedy)... any lower and I'd have to worry about hitting rocks too much.

Cornering is amazing on the Session, it rails and you can push it very hard with confidence. I think the stiffness of the frame is what's doing it, I can push it so hard and it just tracks... and when it does break, it doesn't do it accompanied by a lot of chassis flex, so when it does drift it feels relatively safe and controllable... like a rally car! I agree it would rather track and carve than slide through turns, IMO this is a VERY good thing, it just means you can carry more speed before it breaks loose. And I also agree it encourages a smooth riding style, you can be close to the limit and the bike will remain composed... it's not that you're going slower, there's just less theatrics involved.

I still have one more year on the warranty, but I seriously doubt it'll break. I've only seen one broken (chainstay), it lasted a lot longer than most bikes under this rider, who is a pro and rides a lot more than most people. He said he has broken every bike he's ever owned. So IME, reliability has been good despite some internet rumors claiming it isn't.

 

[norbar]

I definitely agree with everyone's findings, and great review Wa-Aw!

The hangup on square edge hits is about the only weak point I can find... not the best dh rig for plowing rock gardens, but it'll do it. It does seem rare to find a section of trail where this is a real issue, though it does crop up here and there. The very start of Winter Park's Boulevard run features a flat rock garden entry obstacle, and my friend smokes me through it on his v10C, and while he's a good rider, I'm not much slower and most of it IS the bike. It's gotta be slow speed, low angle, and super rocky to the point you can't avoid plowing the rear end into square edge rocks for it to be noticeable. A skilled rider can certainly make it less of an issue as well. As Monarch mentioned, the sus on the '12 has been slightly revised to deal with this.

The HA on my '09 w/40 sitting low in the clamps is 64-64.5 or so. I think spec was 65, it's at least .5 slacker than that...

It feels bottomless to me until I make a mistake and hit something real hard, otherwise I never feel it slam into the bottom out bumper.

I think the bb height is perfect. Its already a lot lower than my trailbike (Remedy)... any lower and I'd have to worry about hitting rocks too much.

Cornering is amazing on the Session, it rails and you can push it very hard with confidence. I think the stiffness of the frame is what's doing it, I can push it so hard and it just tracks... and when it does break, it doesn't do it accompanied by a lot of chassis flex, so when it does drift it feels relatively safe and controllable... like a rally car! I agree it would rather track and carve than slide through turns, IMO this is a VERY good thing, it just means you can carry more speed before it breaks loose. And I also agree it encourages a smooth riding style, you can be close to the limit and the bike will remain composed... it's not that you're going slower, there's just less theatrics involved.

I still have one more year on the warranty, but I seriously doubt it'll break. I've only seen one broken (chainstay), it lasted a lot longer than most bikes under this rider, who is a pro and rides a lot more than most people. He said he has broken every bike he's ever owned. So IME, reliability has been good despite some internet rumors claiming it isn't.

I don't think a lot of people claimed on RM the bike is weak as per definition. It just dents a bit easier than other bikes and it can be annoying considered how much bikes cost.

Also you would be fine with a lower bb. You tend to adjust to new geo unless it's really stupid.

 

[Wa-Aw]

and wow, you're running a 400lb spring and you're getting 28% sag at 150-160lbs? I'm on a 450lb spring at 170 (geared), and thinking about moving up. I wonder what our springs actually measure out to, that seems really soft.

Sorry I meant to say it's what I have, not ideal sag. I would like to move up as well to avoid bottoming and pedal bob. I'm probably a bit over 30% on the sag. I reduced the HSR about half turn, but it's already quite a bit slower than what malcolm recommended. Might have to do with spring preload too (reduced that as well).

Agreed with everything Dave says. I just wish there was a fork out there that was as light/stiff as the frame is!