so basically he's saying it was set up wrong for him. that's almost the same as it being set up more for freeride (whatever that is?).
Session 88, whats up with the Dirt review
- Thread starter djamgils
- Start date
i switched bikes with my buddy in whistler for a 5-6 runs. I think i got a good mix of trails on the bike. Jumps, rocks, rollers, drops, and fast open sections.
We both are roughly the same wieght, i guess whoever took a poop in the morning was lighter at that point. I was able to play with the rebound and sag so i could dial it for my style. So when we traded, i am on a sunday, these were my thoughts.
The sundays low speed was a little better. I really dont like to run alot of low speed on front or back, just enough so she dosent dive. I think if i had a few more days to tune the 88 it would be great. I had to really concentrate on what was diffrent between the two bikes. I enjoyed the highspeed of the 88, it didnt feel like i just blew thru all of the travel when i actully did bottom or g-out.
Cornering was good, felt like the center of gravity and the bb complimented the bike very well. The thing that really skectched me out were the big earl tires. I couldnt really rail a burm, but i belive if i had my minion f's on there it would be very close to how a sunday felt railing.
He also had narrow bars on that i realized i really really enjoy wide bars.
Elixers were a dream, i went home and bought a set right when they came out.
HA felt spot on, wheel base was good. I didnt notice any diffrence in stifness. I noticed when i got on a sunday this year from a socom last year, the sunday felt so much stiffer and an all around better ride for me.
All in all, i think the bike felt very good and rode really well. I would put the tires and wide bars on and I think it would be a great race bike. I would defintaly buy one if the price was not astronomical.
Anyways, long post.
We both are roughly the same wieght, i guess whoever took a poop in the morning was lighter at that point. I was able to play with the rebound and sag so i could dial it for my style. So when we traded, i am on a sunday, these were my thoughts.
The sundays low speed was a little better. I really dont like to run alot of low speed on front or back, just enough so she dosent dive. I think if i had a few more days to tune the 88 it would be great. I had to really concentrate on what was diffrent between the two bikes. I enjoyed the highspeed of the 88, it didnt feel like i just blew thru all of the travel when i actully did bottom or g-out.
Cornering was good, felt like the center of gravity and the bb complimented the bike very well. The thing that really skectched me out were the big earl tires. I couldnt really rail a burm, but i belive if i had my minion f's on there it would be very close to how a sunday felt railing.
He also had narrow bars on that i realized i really really enjoy wide bars.
Elixers were a dream, i went home and bought a set right when they came out.
HA felt spot on, wheel base was good. I didnt notice any diffrence in stifness. I noticed when i got on a sunday this year from a socom last year, the sunday felt so much stiffer and an all around better ride for me.
All in all, i think the bike felt very good and rode really well. I would put the tires and wide bars on and I think it would be a great race bike. I would defintaly buy one if the price was not astronomical.
Anyways, long post.
6300 is pretty standard for a high end race bike these days it seems. little high but not insane. Only crazy thing is the big earl wheelset, stem, bars, seatpost, seat, and pedals...wtf are they thinking.
i guess your right,
i just look at a giant and see the price point they are hitting and wonder why they are going for the market of a v10, m6, ect.
seems like they could lower there margin abit and sell more bikes for a greater profit, but i am not the product manager at trek so what do i know
Its just going to be hard to get the DH spec and sell the parts to get a part spec i want without spending too much extra coin.
i just look at a giant and see the price point they are hitting and wonder why they are going for the market of a v10, m6, ect.
seems like they could lower there margin abit and sell more bikes for a greater profit, but i am not the product manager at trek so what do i know
Its just going to be hard to get the DH spec and sell the parts to get a part spec i want without spending too much extra coin.
Good review. What fork was on the Session ? I hear (not from Dirt) that it's nuts with a Boxxer on it. The more I read about the bike the more I'm sold.
It still beats MBA's style of
-"Turner 5 Spot, the Ulitimate trailbike",
-"Ellwsorth Epiphany, Our favorite 5 in bike",
-"Specialized Stumpjumper, The best trail bike we've ridden in a long time"
all in the same issue.
Like already stated, Dirt Mag reviews have their share of problems, but the other content sure blows most other mags out of the water.
-"Turner 5 Spot, the Ulitimate trailbike",
-"Ellwsorth Epiphany, Our favorite 5 in bike",
-"Specialized Stumpjumper, The best trail bike we've ridden in a long time"
all in the same issue.
Like already stated, Dirt Mag reviews have their share of problems, but the other content sure blows most other mags out of the water.
I'm sorry but mags can make good reviews. Look at future snowboarding mvp awards. Hard to remake with bikes but still. Riders ride boards not knowing which board they test(that's the hard part with bikes) and there are 5 professional test riders so the end review is not from one reviewer but from many. They also review them all in the same place and time so each board is tested in the same conditions(in case of comparisons it's possible with bikes - the same components on test bikes would be nice - like a set of components you put on frames you test or sth close to that).
About the reviews. I like more to use the forums as I can get precise rider input, know sth about their style and ask questions (and those who talked to me know I like to know much
) but still it's nice to read a review as some of them mention the bikes I'd never have though about (and give some nice info like the lapierre spicy 09 shock tune upgrade).Overall I was a bit perplexed by that article, especialy as the geo is pretty much market standard (the one posted on the site) but that will hardly affect my opinion that dirt is The magazine to read for gravity bikers. Can't wait for the next issue and for sure I'll renew my subscription.
Look It does not matter what Jonsey said or for that matter what any review mag say's
There are 2 points id like to make witch make up the fundementals off all things geometry, parts, weight,ETC:
*Good riders ride good no matter what bike there on!
*And S**T riders ride S**T no matter what bike there on!
Conclusion:
JUST RIDE
And Dirt is the better uk mag.
There are 2 points id like to make witch make up the fundementals off all things geometry, parts, weight,ETC:
*Good riders ride good no matter what bike there on!
*And S**T riders ride S**T no matter what bike there on!
Conclusion:
JUST RIDE
And Dirt is the better uk mag.
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2 issues with so much dedicated to the Session 88..advertorial???
http://forums.mpora.com/showthread.php?t=9407
http://forums.mpora.com/showthread.php?t=9407
The point of reading a magazine is to get an honest educated view of bicycles, or products. They can at least just mention honest possitive points to a bike if they don't have the balls to mention the negatives.
Example:-Orange 224, I like the geo, it accelerated well on the hardpack track we were on and handled like a hardtail, cornering well and accurately. The adjustable shock shuttle is benneficial to changing geometry to suit different tracks or to custamise for different riders desires.
The rear wheel skipped over bumps and there was noticeable pedal kick back during this, the suspension packed up when hitting bumps while braking, the shock is placed fairly high in the frame not benefiting dirrection changes.
Example:-Orange 224, I like the geo, it accelerated well on the hardpack track we were on and handled like a hardtail, cornering well and accurately. The adjustable shock shuttle is benneficial to changing geometry to suit different tracks or to custamise for different riders desires.
The rear wheel skipped over bumps and there was noticeable pedal kick back during this, the suspension packed up when hitting bumps while braking, the shock is placed fairly high in the frame not benefiting dirrection changes.
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I was at the Dirt Demo at Interbike two days ago and i was really excited to try out the session 88. It looked like a fast dialed race bike, but I was thoroughly dissapointed with it once I got onto the trails. The geometry felt all off and the rocker link was insanely wide up at the top of the frame so it greatly restricted your ability to move the bike around under you. Because of this it felt like the bike was riding you not the other way around. The bike felt alright when you were going in a straight line, but that was about it, I was down right scared going through some of the nasty spots at Bootleg Canyon that I usually have a blast on. I am dissapointed to report that without a doubt it was the worst feeling downhill bike I have ever ridden. Luckily i hopped on a new V10 afterwards and bombed Ginger... awesome bike, and even more awesome trail.
Check out my review in the test ride thread. I shared a lot of the same feelings. Geometry felt...odd. I didn;t feel like it was a terrible bike, but it definitely needs a few adjustments to get up to par with the other world cup level Dh bikes. It felt more freeride than DH.
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Listen you quack - I have it on good authority that this bike is the be all and end all of DH bikes.
:biggrin:
Transcend, given that the totem and most 8" dual crowns have a pretty similar axle-to-crown dimension, why do you expect the Session would have better geometry with a dual crown?
The one I rode had a fox 40, don't depend on that to make the geometry better. If you're thinking of getting one, test ride it first and make you're own opinion. Blindly buying this bike and hoping you like it is not a good idea.
its only getting all this attention because it looks good with all the fancy paint work and styling it was the same when the session 77 came out it was a little different, it looked cool and from trek so everyone thought o this must be the mesier when actually it was stupidly heavy and felt like you were riding a hardtail, due to whatever the **** it was!!
This bike will fall by the wayside and the old school better bikes for racing like the v10s Orange and horse oh and now id say commencal will keep on doing there thing's.
This bike will fall by the wayside and the old school better bikes for racing like the v10s Orange and horse oh and now id say commencal will keep on doing there thing's.
The bike on the stand (not rideable) was a medium with a fox 40, and had slacker angles, as did the larges with 40s (although different size bike, so hard to tell).
I dont get it, I have the magazine, got the article about the development but I cant find SJ review...Can someone explain?On what page is the actual review?
The article about the development & the review article are in two different issues, the one that came out in September has the review.
i saw on their website, that issue 81 is out.
http://dirtmag.co.uk/magazine/dirt-81
i have no access to the mag right now. so, what's the "detailed reply"? anything interesting?
No reply in this issue 
if your talking about issue 81, then there was. page 150. i cant comment because i haven't any of the bikes but i cant see the reply being to everyones taste.
read it and you will know what i mean.
read it and you will know what i mean.
Reply is in the back in the letters section, I would post it but unfortunately I'm way to lazy to type it out 
Yes there is...in Mailshot page 150.No reply in this issue
I still dont fully understand the dirt comments about the Sunday suspension. I never noticed the Sunday being too eager to use the first part of its suspension. Its been a while since I rode one though. That said its not an orange 22X so it cant be that good in dirts eyes.
;-)
;-)
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and where could I buy it online? because I dont like paying a lot for shipment or be obligated to buy for a x amount of money.
or If somebody would PM it to me so that this man up here doesn't know.
Or if somebody could tell in their own words what the story is.
Some people think the Sunday doesn't have the typical 'plush' feel of many DH bikes. Maybe that's what he's getting at ?
I'm more perplexed by the comment that sunday geo is outdated. Besides the fact that for many ppl it's still the benchmark geo how is trek better? Same HA, 0.07'' Longer CS and 0.35'' higher BB (which is the only significant differance). So does the higher bb mean better now or does the extra inch in the WB make this bike so much better.
He also said that he bashes m6 becuase of the early models with the dropouts that made the tire rub the seattube (how does it affect how good the susp feels and the geo works which actualy many ppl love at only a bit over 13'' bb)
He also states that many years ago orange developed a bike that sunday, commencal and cannondale use now (C-dale and Sunday having similar geo ?? WTF?).
In the end he states that trek is better because of the build quality, warranty, price etc.
The price is lower than other bikes in the uk for trek but that's because they have a good distributor not becuase the bike is cheaper looking at the us price and I can think of many bikes with a warranty with which I'm feel much more secure.
Also a great advantage of the bike is the custom tuned shock instead of normal of the shelf dhx
To me it still seems kinda dodgy.
He also said that he bashes m6 becuase of the early models with the dropouts that made the tire rub the seattube (how does it affect how good the susp feels and the geo works which actualy many ppl love at only a bit over 13'' bb)
He also states that many years ago orange developed a bike that sunday, commencal and cannondale use now (C-dale and Sunday having similar geo ?? WTF?).
In the end he states that trek is better because of the build quality, warranty, price etc.
The price is lower than other bikes in the uk for trek but that's because they have a good distributor not becuase the bike is cheaper looking at the us price and I can think of many bikes with a warranty with which I'm feel much more secure.
Also a great advantage of the bike is the custom tuned shock instead of normal of the shelf dhx
To me it still seems kinda dodgy.
I went and read the response last night. Agree with him or not, I give him credit for voicing his opinion, even though he is bashing the fanboys' favorite bike. American mags wouldn't have the balls to do that. Now if they would just increase their font size...
^^100% true.
their review of the sunday (although some years ago now) was like: "best bike ever ridden".
when he rode hill's sunday on the 1:04 mr. jones was even more raving fan boi-ish then anything i've read here.
in my opinion he got a little swept away in the trek review and that's it.
and i'm pretty convinced that the trek is a very solid bike, almost as good as peaty's orange so many moons ago. :biggrin:
In the article he is comparing the Trek to the production Sunday, not Sam's one off race bike.
He raved also about the production one. Also I still don't get the outdated geo part. I'm the last to be called a fanboy (prefer Atherton over Hill and really think that sunday looks poorly done for the price) yet I see the geo differances between the 2 bikes and still cant see what in trek makes the sunday numbers so outdated.
You might want to reread the article again there. Jones specifically said that although suspension design on all three bikes were entirely different they weren't too different in terms of geometry and feel. This is Gee Atherton's and Sam Hill's custom geometried race rigs, not production models.
I think what Jones was trying to get across was how dialed the Trek was in terms of angles and geo numbers.
With all that said, it's on the short list for my next full-on DH race bike (I also work for a Trek distributor
) but I would probably take all the magazine reviews of the Session with a grain of salt. Please, people! Test ride before you buy. These bikes are indeed worth thousands of dollars...quite the investment and way too costly to just leave it up to articles alone.I havent read the latest dirt article. But what I hear from you guys is that Dirt is comparing their session to the sunday. But their session has a slacker head angle then it is supposed to have.
Norbar, I think you are comparing the numbers from the websites of trek and IH.
Dirt should actually test a Session without this rediculous head angle deviation. People are buying the session based on their review but they get a completely different bike. If a deviation of -2.5 degree is possible woud it also be possible that your session comes with a +2.5, so 67.5degree headangle?
Yeah but If the deviation is so big it's even worse for trek.
Also I've noticed one thing. I think Jonsey looks rather for stabilty than agility in his bike and that's where the raving may come from as the main advantages for him are 48'' WB and 63deg HA. Wouldn't that feel a bit long for most of us ppl?
Also I've noticed one thing. I think Jonsey looks rather for stabilty than agility in his bike and that's where the raving may come from as the main advantages for him are 48'' WB and 63deg HA. Wouldn't that feel a bit long for most of us ppl?