[Nick]

Moved from the GMT to Food.

Mostly you just need to spend some money on decent stones and practice. Most cheap/natural stones make it miserable because they take forever and need to be ground flat periodically. I am using one of these for my household knives https://smile.amazon.com/WE-ZHE-Sharpening-Stone-Double-Sided/dp/B07XB7BWNQ The ruby side is fast and will finish off kitchen knives just fine, unless they are in really bad shape. And it will last the rest of your life if you don't drop it. The marble side is pretty pointless unless you want geek out with a fully polished edge, but it provides support for the ruby. Don't buy a little one, check your sizes! Also that stone will need to be broken in, use an old knife for practice first.

I have a 3000/8000 labeled Bearmoo. I have no issue buying another stone. I think my problem is the actual process, the sharpening technique. I learned by watching a couple videos on YouTube.

If you have any pointers or good practices I'd love to hear them.

 

[Nick]

Adding @jonKranked and @jdcamb for moar infos.

 

[eaterofdog]

3000/8000 labeled Bearmoo

I had one that looked just like that and it was... not good. It was slow and packed up rapidly, becoming even slower. If you have a diamond plate you can refresh it periodically by grinding the face off.

 

[Nick]

I had one that looked just like that and it was... not good. It was slow and packed up rapidly, becoming even slower. If you have a diamond plate you can refresh it periodically by grinding the face off.

Ok thanks.
What it's a good choice then?

 

[eaterofdog]

Ok thanks.
What it's a good choice then?

I suggest you buy a full set of Nanwa Choseras if you don't want that cheaper ruby stone.

 

[jonKranked]

I have a Suehiro 1200 and one of these. nothing super fancy but i don't have any super fancy knives, kitchen or otherwise.

 

[StiHacka]

I use diamond plates for bevel setting and for lapping of hones. All synthetic and most natural hones grind away during honing and you want to keep them flat for consistent results. For knives, I use synthetic hones, for straight razors, a have a nice collection of natural whetstones from quarries around the world.

I can get a razor from chipped to perfection with a progression on three hones in 20 minutes or less - diamond coarse plate, fast semi-fine Coticule, then polishing on Japanese Kiita.

For synthetics, I don't think you need to spend a lot if all U are sharpening are kitchen and pocket knives. Coarse diamond and 600/2000 combo is good enough.

For naturals, stay away from Arkansas stones. They are very hard, very slow and not fine enough. If I could have just one natural, it would be a faster vein of a Belgian Coticule.

 

[jonKranked]

on the topic of knives themselves, @Adventurous had posted about some differences between japanese and german steel. can anyone elaborate on these a bit more? i've been considering spending some money and getting a nice set of kitchen knives (i like to cook a lot) and need to better educate myself before spending the kind of money i'm planning to.

 

[Nick]

My knives are nothing fancy at all. I'm only now appreciating the difference between ok knives and good stuff.

 

[StiHacka]

You should mostly only be aware of the differences between stainless and high carbon steel. I am sure thev material engineers will come in about their hardness, ability to tool, edge retaining abilities or plasticity.

Bottom line - stainless are mostly more difficult to put a super keen edge on and are less likely to chip.

 

[Westy]

 

[OGRipper]

Great thread idea! Good knives are for life, and the ability to sharpen them is a life skill.

I took a sharping class at Town Cutler in SF and came home with two Japanese wet stones, a "King Deluxe" 1200 grit and a second at 6000 grit. I have a mix of German and Japanese knives that get used frequently but not really heavy volume, and these stones work for me. Always interested in improving technique, however, so if anyone has good ideas or can point to helpful vids, that would be rad.

 

[jonKranked]

You should mostly only be aware of the differences between stainless and high carbon steel. I am sure thev material engineers will come in about their hardness, ability to tool, edge retaining abilities or plasticity.

Bottom line - stainless are mostly more difficult to put a super keen edge on and are less likely to chip.

application wise (kitchen specific) is one better at certain things over the other? or is it more just regardining maintenance of the knife itself

 

[Kevin]

Always wanted something like this for my knives.
I have a set of Japanese Damascus steel chefs knives and Im too much of a hack to sharpen myself unfortunately.

 

[Adventurous]

on the topic of knives themselves, @Adventurous had posted about some differences between japanese and german steel. can anyone elaborate on these a bit more? i've been considering spending some money and getting a nice set of kitchen knives (i like to cook a lot) and need to better educate myself before spending the kind of money i'm planning to.

So, some things to consider when making your decision.

Stainless vs. Carbon steel

Stainless is preferable for shared knives, and/or knife abusers, who may leave them in the sink, throw them in the dishwasher (not recommended, ever), or just generally don't want to worry about babying them. If you fall into this camp, stick with stainless. There are countless stainless steels, some of which perform better than others, so shop around to find something with a better grade. For reference, 440 series stainless is lower grade, mid grade will be something like VG-10 , and AEB-L represents the higher end, without getting into more boutique steels.

If you want a knife that performs better, at the expense of more maintenance, carbon steel is your friend. It gets harder than stainless, so it'll take a sharper edge and hold it for longer. Biggest downside is they will rust if not taken care of properly. There are loads of carbon steel formulations out there, and some fare better than others when it comes to resisting rust, but they will all take on surface rust if not taken care of properly. Think washing and drying the knives after each use, especially if cutting acidic foods. Other downside is they are harder to sharpen, but it's a tradeoff for their edge holding ability. Upside of course is they will develop a kickass, unique patina over time, much like a carbon steel pan would, that speaks to the foods they've cooked during their lives.

There is a hybrid option of stainless clad carbon steel knives. These are less common, but do exist, and try to combine the best of both worlds. They do, but are understandably expensive owing to manufacturing being more labor intensive.

Japanese vs. German

This is distilled a bit, as one could probably write a dissertation on the subject, but here's a general overview.

German knives, like Henckels and Wusthoff, tend to be heavier, thicker, and softer than their Japanese counterparts. Blades are typically hardened anywhere from Rc 56 to Rc 60. They are also sharpened at more obtuse angles, and can take more abuse. Like smashing through butternut squash or the occasional bone? German all the way. They'll get dull faster, but that is a tradeoff for not chipping the edge if you hit a bone or get rowdy in the kitchen. The obtuse angle will also wedge itself into foods a bit harder, so it doesn't have the same laser like feeling that a good Japanese knife does. If you love precision cuts and being an artist about it, German knives are less lively feeling in hand and won't impart the same user experience. The blade profile on German knives also tends to have more belly (curvature) to it, so if you like rock chopping you'll like the German experience.

Japanese knives on the other hand, are lighter, thinner, and harder than their German counterparts. Blades are typically hardened from Rc 60 to Rc 64, and are sharpened at more acute angles. The leading edge doesn't have as much backbone behind it and will chip if abused instead of ding or dull. They will however glide through foods like nobody's business. They can be had with standard "Western" style handles, which is what you are more than likely used to, or "Wa" handles which are octagonal shaped and light. If you pinch grip your knives, the Wa handle is quite comfortable and will give you a well balanced, blade heavy tool. This, combined with the blade geometry, favors a push slice or vertical motion over rock chopping. It will also glide through foods better and provide a more precision feeling.

Set Make Up

Throw out the notion that more is better, its not. In reality, most people only need 3 knives, a chefs, a paring, and a bread knife. If you filet a lot of fish, or bone a lot of meat, adding those may be wise, but for the most part those 3 will get nearly any job in the kitchen done. Size wise, go with the biggest chefs knife you can that'll fit your board and body type. It's personal preference, but most men prefer a larger knife vs women. A 10" chef's knife is a good place to start, it's longer than standard, but not too long, while also working with most people's current setups. A 3" paring knife is great for delicate tasks, and there is no substitute for a serrated bread knife. Don't spend a lot of money on a bread knife either, there's no real incentive to sharpen them when they get dull so find one you won't feel bad about replacing in a few years.

Other than that, you won't need other knives with regularity. Perhaps a smaller santoku, utility, or chef's knife for the wife if she wants something she can control better. The smaller stable also means you can spend more per knife and get something quality. Figure $130 - $200 for the chef's knife, $75 - $100 for the paring, and $15 - $30 for the bread. Not too crazy, right?

Want to branch out a little? Nakiri knives are great for vegetables, and are starting to gain popularity in this country. It's a big cleaver looking blade that is thinner and lighter than a cleaver. It's a fun little profile.

Santokus are also popular chef knife replacements. They are typically smaller and lack the pointed tip that a chef's knife does. Good general purpose knives that can be worth having around.

Extras
Get yourself a decent combination stone, or set of stones, and learn how to use them. Dull knives are dangerous knives. Sharpen as necessary, but using a knife hone will prolong periods of time in between sharpening. Electric sharpeners are okay, but they tend to bite off a lot of unnecessary metal and will lead to accelerated wear. Stones will take off less material and are friendlier, provided you sharpen things at the correct angle, which can be hard at the beginning.

A hone/steel is a must have. Generally speaking, German = metal hone, Japanese = ceramic. Match the hone material to the blade hardness and you'll be good. After all, hones/steels are for straightening the sharpened edge as it folds over due to use, not removing material, so you don't need to get aggressive with it. 3 swipes per side with regularity will keep the edge in good shape.

Kitchen shears are a must have.

Knife storage. Blocks are okay. They do a great job separating knives, but can become mold traps. Who knows what's down inside those crevasses. Magnetic wall mounts are nice, keeps things separate, allows them to dry, but won't work with most stainless. Loose in a drawer is a horrible way to store them and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Recommendations

I am partial to Japanese knives, so that is what I can do a decent job recommending. German stuff it's hard to go wrong with Henckels and Wusthoff, so long as you ensure that they are made in Germany. They do have some lower grade cutlery that is farmed out and not that great. Careful. Also don't be fooled by brands like Shun as they are German'ish knives masquerading as Japanese knives. Stellar looks with okay performance, but you can do better for the money.

Budget:

Fujiwara Kanefusa

Fujiwara Kanefusa knives have a long a storied history as revered Japanese swordsmiths. The company can trace its history back some 25 generations. We offer the most popular Fujiwara cutlery in the Western style that they have to offer including the FKM series which is made from Molybdenum...

www.chefknivestogo.com

Fujiwara offers similar profile in stainless and carbon steel. Great beginner knives, and you won't be heartbroken if one dies.

Victorinox Fibrox knives. Again, used in half a billion kitchens around the world. They aren't lookers, but they perform decently, and they sure won't break the budget. Not Japanese mind you.

Decent:

MAC Professional Mighty Chef's Knife 9 1/2"

This is the choice of the home cook and professional seeking just a bit more reach than an 8" knife can provide. The blade profile is reminiscent of the great Sabatier chefs knives of old, and with it's great rocking point, and long flat on the edge, it will prove to be a real performer in the...

www.chefknivestogo.com

Mac knives are more middle of the road. You'll find a lot of these in the hands of chef's around the country. Great performance for the price.

Misono Sweden Steel Series | Forged Carbon Steel

Made using a very pure Swedish high carbon tool steel, each knife in the Misono Swedish Steel Series is carefully hand-forged to create fine carbon steel knife.

japanesechefsknife.com

Misono also has stainless and carbon steel variants. Both are well priced, both are great performers. I have a Misono 10" chef and 3" paring. No complaints, would highly recommend.

There are a million high end options, some of which are absurdly priced. If you want to spend $400+ on a chef's knife, be my guest, there are plenty of people who will take your money. Just know that it won't perform world's better than the Decent options.

 

[jonKranked]

thanks for the info. that was a great description.

i actually just got myself a new bread knife that i really like, Mercer Millenia. wasn't crazy expensive but seems to be great quality thus far.

I currently have a group of lower end santoku knives (just cuisinart), 4" 5" and i think the largest is either 8 or 10 inch. generally i prefer the smaller santoku's over a paring knife (but i may be doing it wrong). currently no chef's knife.

why do you suggest kitchen shears?

 

[boostindoubles]

I like nice knives but am not an expert at sharpening them. I have a Lansky sharpening system that keeps my edges functional. Would I do do it differently if I understood the what why and hows of sharpening steel? Yes more than likely. Thanks for the info!

 

[StiHacka]

application wise (kitchen specific) is one better at certain things over the other? or is it more just regardining maintenance of the knife itself

Traditional japanese steel metallurgy is inferior to pretty much everything else contemporary or modern. There's cultural and sentimental value and a high snob factor, the rest is marketing. Go with any modern stainless supersteel and you won't need another knife for life.

Generally speaking, German = metal hone

That's a misnomer. Metal "sharpening" rods are not really hones but strops, they straighten folded edge.
I would not be able to sharped my Wusthofs without real hones btw.

 

[jdcamb]

Cooks World in my town has a sharpening service. It is .50 cents a inch of blade and a drop off service. They do such a better job then I. I take good care off all my Knives and keep them sharp. I believe it is a safety issue.

 

[Adventurous]

Traditional japanese steel metallurgy is inferior to pretty much everything else contemporary or modern. There's cultural and sentimental value and a high snob factor, the rest is marketing. Go with any modern stainless supersteel and you won't need another knife for life.


That's a misnomer. Metal "sharpening" rods are not really hones but strops, they straighten folded edge.
I would not be able to sharped my Wusthofs without real hones btw.

A few sentences later you shall see that I say that. The straightening the burr part.

I don't like the "hone" name much either, but thats what most people know them as.

 

[StiHacka]

A few sentences later you shall see that I say that. The straightening the burr part.

I don't like the "hone" name much either, but thats what most people know them as.

Yeah, I am with you. In my native tongue, we use two different words for them.

 

[HardtailHack]

What does a dishwasher do to a knife?

That makes up my mind when purchasing, no dishwasher, no sale.

 

[OGRipper]

Knives knock around in dishwashers, which messes up the blade, causes knicks, etc. That's enough for me. Also, I don't know how true it is across the board but some people also say that high heat makes them brittle.

I buy dishwasher-safe steak knives and cheap paring/utility knives but would never run a good quality kitchen knife through.

 

[HardtailHack]

I got given the entry level Wusthof block as a gift and they are more than good enough for me, the manual said that they can go in to the dishwasher but handwashing is recommended, dishwasher it is.
Sounds like the dishwasher is fine- https://www.tomsguide.com/news/dishwashers-are-the-worst-thing-for-knives-heres-why

 

[Westy]

Knives knock around in dishwashers, which messes up the blade, causes knicks, etc. That's enough for me. Also, I don't know how true it is across the board but some people also say that high heat makes them brittle.

I buy dishwasher-safe steak knives and cheap paring/utility knives but would never run a good quality kitchen knife through.

The temperature of a dishwasher should have no effect on the metallurgy of a knife and if it did it would be closer to the annealing temp which would soften the steel. I think it is more about damaging the edge from getting knocked around and possible water damage. Even stainless steals can rust or "rouge" unless they are passivated, which wouldn't be good for something that has to hold an edge.

 

[jdcamb]

Adding @jonKranked and @jdcamb for moar infos.

I suck at sharpening knives. I prefer to have them sharpened. Povenelli is the local service for me. I drop them off. We talk for a while, he makes me coffee and I give him my Red Spice in exchange for his services. They know me by name.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I suck at sharpening knives. I prefer to have them sharpened. Povenelli is the local service for me. I drop them off. We talk for a while, he makes me coffee and I give him my Red Spice in exchange for his services. They know me by name.

We had that in Cambridge.

 

[eric strt6]

I picked this up the other day from Henckels. It seems to sharpen my knives nicely

 

[SloanJason]

I picked this up the other day from Henckels. It seems to sharpen my knives nicelyView attachment 176603

How much did it cost?

 

[eric strt6]

How much did it cost?

Just over $20

 

[SloanJason]

Just over $20

Not bad at all. My knives at home are starting to get really dull. Might check it out

 

[Westy]

I picked this up the other day from Henckels. It seems to sharpen my knives nicelyView attachment 176603

 

[6thElement]

I picked this up the other day from Henckels. It seems to sharpen my knives nicelyView attachment 176603

Okay, someone explain standard versus Asian.

 

[OGRipper]

It's a generalization but asian knives typically have a lower edge angle, use harder steel, and are thinner than European knives. Also, some Japanese knives (like fancy sushi knives) will only have one sharpened edge, rather than the more typical two. European-style (considered "Standard" to the folks at Henckels) are thicker and use softer metal that is generally more durable, less prone to chipping, etc.

 

[eric strt6]

Ok so I got tired of always trying to sharpen my knives. some of the gear I have purchased worked fine for the first few times but that was it. I fucking hate dull kitchen knives. So what the hell I saw this , it was on sale so I bought it. Order to doorstep was about a week. Initial set up took about 30 minutes. I worked each of the 3 knives (Henkels) for about 5-7 minutes and they were sharp enough to slice a piece of printer paper on edge. so far it seems like a winner

It will drip water and metal grit so have something below the work area to catch it

Iki Ruixin Pro™ Sharpener + 4 Whetstones Set

Also available in Sake Energy Bundle Highlights Pro sharpness with almost no practice Adjustable & fixable angle Angle can be adjusted to 10-50 degrees Multipurpose: kitchen knives, hunting knives, pocket knives, scissors and more Ergonomic: can be clamped to the table, easy blade flipping...

wasabi-knives.com

 

[chuffer]

#Bossladywife picked up some gear while back home. Thing on the left is a stone to keep the actual stone on the right flat. She also got me a nice “petty,” which is what I like for paring and other off the cutting board type stuff. Owner of the shop let her take a video of him showing how to correctly maintain the stone.

 

[Toshi]

Ok so I got tired of always trying to sharpen my knives. some of the gear I have purchased worked fine for the first few times but that was it. I fucking hate dull kitchen knives. So what the hell I saw this , it was on sale so I bought it. Order to doorstep was about a week. Initial set up took about 30 minutes. I worked each of the 3 knives (Henkels) for about 5-7 minutes and they were sharp enough to slice a piece of printer paper on edge. so far it seems like a winner

It will drip water and metal grit so have something below the work area to catch it

Iki Ruixin Pro™ Sharpener + 4 Whetstones Set

Also available in Sake Energy Bundle Highlights Pro sharpness with almost no practice Adjustable & fixable angle Angle can be adjusted to 10-50 degrees Multipurpose: kitchen knives, hunting knives, pocket knives, scissors and more Ergonomic: can be clamped to the table, easy blade flipping...

wasabi-knives.com

Ooh, I’ve seen that targeted ad served up to me. Good to know it works. I’d get it but I don’t need another hobby—the little sharpener I have like your four slot one seems to work well enough for what we do.

@Adventurous you mentioned Shun is more like a German knife with a fancy finish. So my Shun santoku has a German edge angle then?

 

[StiHacka]

She also got me a nice “petty,”

 

[Adventurous]

Ooh, I’ve seen that targeted ad served up to me. Good to know it works. I’d get it but I don’t need another hobby—the little sharpener I have like your four slot one seems to work well enough for what we do.

@Adventurous you mentioned Shun is more like a German knife with a fancy finish. So my Shun santoku has a German edge angle then?

Which model do you have? Shuns are kinda like hydrids and take some elements from German knives and some from Japanese. KAI, the parent company of Shun, recommends users target a 16* angle when sharpening.

 

[boostindoubles]

Anyone running a Spyderco Sharpmaker or their Galley V system?