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ShimanoSaint m820 brake lever

Discussion in 'Downhill & Freeride' started by alexad, Mar 2, 2013.

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  1. alexad

    alexad Chimp

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    saint.jpg
    Someone can tell me what the purpose of gold cap with hole.
    I have fresh bled , during first riding there was an oil splash from the hole. ???!!! Looks there too much oil in system ??!
    I think this kind of valve that release extra oil, but after that release I lose my brake/pad contact power.

    Overall I don't see an easy way to tune pad contact with Shimano saint brake.
    int brake.
     
    #1 -   Mar 2, 2013

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  2. daisycutter

    daisycutter Turbo Monkey

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    Saint 820 Brakes has issues. Ask Gwin
     
    #2 -   Mar 2, 2013
  3. csermonet

    csermonet Monkey

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    Avid and Formula = moar better
     
    #3 -   Mar 2, 2013
  4. alexad

    alexad Chimp

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    maybe but i still use old m810 calliper
     
    #4 -   Mar 2, 2013
  5. csermonet

    csermonet Monkey

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    I would help but have never owned Shimano brakes. Many people on this forum use them though, someone will chime in soon
     
    #5 -   Mar 2, 2013
  6. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
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    lol.

    remember all the issues that people had with formula ones where they had to rebleed as the pads wore?

    Remember all the recalls with Avid brakes that are still ongoing due to spotty QC? The turkey warble that elixirs are renowned for?

    Yet you've never owned a set of shimano brakes to compare them to.
     
    #6 -   Mar 2, 2013
  7. csermonet

    csermonet Monkey

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    Lets keep it going. 6 replies and still none have been constructive! Anyone else want to join?
     
    #7 -   Mar 2, 2013
  8. Sandwich

    Sandwich Pig my fish!
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    dude these brakes have been on the market for two weeks. just because one guy in whizzler and urngwrn had a problem with them, doesn't imply that the countless individuals who have had little or no problem with their brakes are wrong. My three sets of shimano brakes have performed admirably, better than anything else I've ridden. The post is on a weekend, when most people are not at work and therefore wasting time.

    My guess is that it's the vent for the open system. It's probably not supposed to let any oil out, but rather air in/out to compensate for heat buildup. It could be a faulty valve, or it could be residual oil from the manufacturing process. Is there a problem associated with the leak? If there is, it might be worth a call to shimano. Otherwise, I would ignore it, wipe away the excess, and keep an eye on it for problems or further leaks. Maybe somebody with extensive experience with the newer shimano brakes can chime in.
     
    #8 -   Mar 2, 2013
  9. tracer650

    tracer650 Chimp

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    Pretty sure he had an XTR Prototype lever.... either way He bent the piston on the lever then the seal eventually failed.

     
    #9 -   Mar 2, 2013
  10. alexad

    alexad Chimp

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    I think maybe there some problem with seal on the other side of the gold cap , but how the hell I am removing the gold cap out to test the seal.
    In old saint lever m810 you just pull it out after removing plastic.
    For the record , I still use old m810 calliper with new m820 lever.
    Spoke with Local Shimano dealer and there no information about this problem.
    I know that it happens with some XTR levers too , or there no oil leak but no power on pa bite.
     
  11. 819

    819 Monkey

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    If I'm not mistaken, the pad contact adjustment is the small silver phillips screw just below and to the front of the gold cap you are pointing out.
     
  12. lockstock

    lockstock Monkey

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    Had the exact same issue with mine, i basically just filled it (threaded section on gold cap) with super glue and screwed in a straight line pedal pin lol (did the same to the other lever to save it from happening there as well). Still have the inconsistent lever issue on that side but front brake is flawless. Pretty frustrating having to bleed the rear brake after each ride.

    To get the lever throw sorted just apply pressure to the syringe and close the bleed nipple while bleeding them.
     
  13. kazlx

    kazlx Patches O'Houlihan

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    Not to point out the obvious, but anything in the instructions?
     
  14. alexad

    alexad Chimp

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    You can block the hole in gold cup but the system needs some pressure valve. The oil overheating during the ride and release some gas I think and that's what make pressure in the system , that's what can cause seals in the caliper to leak.

    The pad contact adjustment is the small silver Phillips screw don't work in all Shimano levers that I sow unlike in avid lever that really works. It does push the oil in but have no changes in pad contact.
     
  15. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    alexad -
    Everything you have said is correct. Unfortunately I doubt anyone here can help you with a solution. Like you said the hole is there to relieve pressure in the system as the oil expands and contracts, however the only thing entering or exiting that hole *should* be air. In reality though, that's not the case - both M810 and M820 units seem to expel fluid from the hole/cap and thus increase lever throw, on the M820 to dangerous levels on a few occasions I've seen. Also like you said, the throw adjusters have consistently done *nothing* on all Shimano brakes featuring them in terms of actual throw adjustment, instead all they seem to do is increase the notchiness of the lever slightly.

    There's a thread here already discussing some other issues:
    http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/f1...nt-bite-point-any-fixes-solutions-yet-256756/

    One thing you could try (if you want to spend more money) is the SLX or ZEE levers with your existing calipers. They don't have that gold cap (so it may be a better design in terms of leaking from that point), and they don't have the reach adjuster (which if you read that thread above, is suspected to be the cause of the varying lever throw many people were having trouble with). Functionality otherwise should be the same.
     
    #15 -   Mar 3, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  16. lockstock

    lockstock Monkey

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    Just to clear it up fluid would freely leak from the hole so didn't really have much choice but to block the hole, never even made it to a trail before this issue arose just some sweet car park testing. From memory there is a small rubber diaphragm at the end of the hole that would flex to allow for the heating up of the system but as Udi said no fluid should ever come out.
    The lever throw adjustment i mentioned above actually works unlike the free stroke adjuster. But thinking about it this may have contributed to the failure i experienced.

    STILL BETTER THAN AVID
     
    #16 -   Mar 3, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  17. alexad

    alexad Chimp

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    Already tried XT 2012 Lever , same ****.
    I have set of old XT 2004 4 piston with XT 2012 Levers and works fine.

    Tried some new trick yesterday:
    1. take lever oil bleed cap out
    2. take out caliper
    3. take out pads from the caliper
    4. pump some oil from lever till all pistons going straight out.
    All pistons need to be out to the same point from each side
    5. put pads back to the caliper with little space between
    6. push flat screwdriver and make some space for rotor between each side of the pads but make it very tight
    7. put the caliper back on the bike and push it to the rotor , if need more space so make it
    8. block caliper in place
    9. add more oil in lever
    10. Close lever oil cap
    Ready to go

    Bite point works now very well , still testing.

    The old trick that worked in oils saint m810 , to push more oil from caliper not working on m820. It causes to the oil leak , I think because the seal in lever of m820 too weak
     
    #17 -   Mar 3, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2013
  18. alexad

    alexad Chimp

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  19. Udi

    Udi RM Chief Ornithologist: “I Brake for Birds”

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    Why do you think your new "trick" will result in anything different to the old one? The system is still overfilled with fluid, and if it leaked out before, it will most likely leak out again. Good luck though.

    For whatever it's worth, I tried the exact same steps you did on the M810, and after about two days of riding they would just go back to how they were.