Shiver DC or 66?

ioscope · Oct 18, 2004

Shiver

Castle · Oct 18, 2004

I think the main things you'd notice on the 66 over your shiver, (obviously without having ridden one) would be.....

a slacker bike, by almost a inch taller axle to crown

a lighter front end

nicer quality of travel

lil extra on the fly adjustability with the air assist

x-up, tail whip capabilities if that's your thing

I'm also goin back and fourth in my head between my current 7" 888 or a 66........

Bicyclist · Oct 18, 2004

I think that the Big Hit needs a 66. If you do freeride it would be a perfect fork. I have a Big Hit but couldn't afford the 66 so I got a Super T.

ioscope · Oct 18, 2004

Shivers are best... trust me.

WHY DO YOU THINK ONLY THE PAINT HAS CHANGED IN 4 YEARS??

Matt D · Oct 19, 2004

ioscope said:
Shivers are best... trust me.

WHY DO YOU THINK ONLY THE PAINT HAS CHANGED IN 4 YEARS??

Do you have a lot of time on the 66?

Gramatica · Oct 19, 2004

I say keep the shiver.... I'm sure the damping of the 66, granted the 66R, Will be just as buttery as a superT..... But you will loose the stiff front end I'm sure you love......Taken in the fact that you are going more into freeride, I still think you can wreak the benefits of the shiver.

me89 · Oct 19, 2004

although i havent ridin the 66 i would choose it over the shiver. you will have a newer suspension design so it will be less maintenace and also you will have better performance from it. also it will be a better trail fork cause it is lighter than the shiver for when those unexpectited uphills come up.

OGRipper · Oct 19, 2004

I don't know about less maintenance, the 66 is brand new and everyone I know with a shiver says it requires less maintenance than any other fork on the planet.

If you like your shiver, keep it and obsess over something else.

binary visions · Oct 19, 2004

me89 said:
although i havent ridin the 66 i would choose it over the shiver. you will have a newer suspension design so it will be less maintenace and also you will have better performance from it. also it will be a better trail fork cause it is lighter than the shiver for when those unexpectited uphills come up.

You know, there's a difference between grounded speculation and wild guesses. You haven't ridden the fork so you don't know if it will perform better, it hasn't been out long enough to know whether or not it will require less maintenance (which is a long shot anyway, considering the Shiver is renowned for being maintenance free), and newer does not always equal better.

Stick to your point about the weight and leave the other guesses to people who know...

narlus · Oct 19, 2004

me89 said:
also it will be a better trail fork cause it is lighter than the shiver for when those unexpectited uphills come up.

which would you rather ride uphill with:

a 8 pound fork that is 2" higher than a 10 pound fork?

or a 10 pound fork that is 2" lower than the 8 pound fork?

note - these figures are just made up, and aren't intended to mimic the specs of the shiver and 66.

OGRipper · Oct 19, 2004

Yeah I agree with Binary. And that's one of the hard things about the question, the fact that few people have much time on the 66.

MB, if you didn't already have a shiver and you were trying to pick between the two as a new purchase, this would be a tougher call. It would also be tougher if the 66 had ETA or some kind of travel adjust or climb assist/lockout for trailriding, but it doesn't, so what do you really get? IMO, you've already got a sweet fork, and unless there's something wrong with it I'd say spend your money on something else. I'm a big parts ho and normally don't hesitate to tell people to get new stuff, but forks and shocks are kind of fickle and if you like what you've got I say stick with it.

Jm_ · Oct 19, 2004

190mm travel vs 170mm, and it's not like the shivers 190mm is bad travel, it's very very good.

The 66 looks intriguing for a freeride bike or perhaps a lightweight DH rig, but I wouldn't switch out my shiver for one for all around DH riding.

me89 · Oct 19, 2004

You know, there's a difference between grounded speculation and wild guesses. You haven't ridden the fork so you don't know if it will perform better, it hasn't been out long enough to know whether or not it will require less maintenance (which is a long shot anyway, considering the Shiver is renowned for being maintenance free), and newer does not always equal better.

the performance and maintenance comments were all assumptions from the fact that it will have newer internals than his shiver right now. i know that the shivers are known for being maintenace free, but his shiver is an 03 model and has had 2 seasons under it so the day will come when he will have to do some maintenace on it. even though it will be cheaper than the 66 to replace the internals. im not trying to say what i said was totally correct i was just giving my opinion and what i think will work better. but you are right i shouldnt say anything without having ridden the fork.

partsbara · Oct 19, 2004

hey bob

stick with what ya have mate... honestly, either would be schweet but now that you re used to the weight of the shiver i d stick with it

anyway, don t listen to me because i just put on my 2005 888RC yesterday

... the monster is dead, long live the monster...
:cool:

later mate... 'ave a good one

paul

Castle · Oct 19, 2004

madbob said:
I thought you were bull****ting. I didn't believe that a fork with an inch less travel could be an inch taller. I checked marzocchi's site, and measured my shiver and you were right. wow.

this is me whenever I see new stuff. but I can pick up a 66 cheap enough, that it will only cost me between $50 and $150 out of pocket once I sell the shiver.

yeah it's hard to believe but if you look at the new crown on the 66 and stanchion overlap you can quickly see how it got so tall.

I'm fighting the same dilema, after selling the 888 and putting the 66 on my bike, I'd have a few extra dollars for other things like a Fox DHX 5.0.... :drool:

it's never ending...

Spunger · Oct 19, 2004

I'd say keep the shiver, no need to buy a new fork.

I have an 02 shiver SC on the FR/XC bike and a 02 on my DH bike. Both have just had normal oil changes and they are both fine. Hell I don't think new seals etc...is that much. Marzocchi offers a service on it for $100-120 I think? With parts and labor included that's a deal, especially if you do it every 2-3 years that isn't much.

The Shivers are probably some of their more popular forks. 888's are becomming that way but in tow they have the same travel, same HSCV dampers, adjustability etc... Just the 888's leak at the lowers (jk but some have reported such thin castings that oil seeps out). Never heard of that with a shiver....

Anyways, I'd just pay to get it rebuilt if in question and go at that. I wish they made a Ti spring kit for the Shiver DC as then it'd loose a little bit of weight. Again, it has to be one of the most maintence free forks out there. Marzocchi products are known for this.

binary visions · Oct 19, 2004

Spunger said:
but some have reported such thin castings that oil seeps out

I don't know if you intended that statement the way it sounds, but since you said it last it's your quote I'm using

That's a bit of a misnomer. A metal casting, no matter how thin, will not allow oil to seep through it. There have been a couple threads on this, and what is actually happening is that there are air bubbles in the castings, so the material is actually defective, and THAT'S why the oil is seeping out.

I've just heard a bunch of people claim that the castings are so thin, they are somehow allowing oil through, which is not true. The problem is a defective material that has small holes in it, not a defect in the product design.

Spunger · Oct 19, 2004

No, I ment it the corrected way

I forgot the "defective material in the castings" part

I'd just had to drop a grand on a fork and have oil seep out of the lowers, like in the middle of them and collect dirt. They'll refine it and get it fixed.

Thanks for the correction!

Castle · Oct 19, 2004

Spunger said:
The Shivers are probably some of their more popular forks. 888's are becomming that way but in tow they have the same travel, same HSCV dampers, adjustability etc... Just the 888's leak at the lowers (jk but some have reported such thin castings that oil seeps out). Never heard of that with a shiver....

the 888 internals and Shiver internals are different unless for '05 they have installed 888 style carts in the Shiver but in a passed year model they will be different then a 888 style cartridge.

nothing wrong with a shivers quality of travel but the 888 cart is even nicer

that decrease in front end weight specifically is really interesting me as well.....

ioscope · Oct 20, 2004

Except the 888 is ridiculously tall and a pain in the a$$ to work on. And casted sliders of mg are less strong than cnc'd alu on a shiver.

Think about it this way.
The shiver was designed for mx bikes, then lightened.
The 888 was designed for dh/fr bikes and then expensified.

Now which philosophy is better?
SHIVER

Jm_ · Oct 20, 2004

ioscope said:
The shiver was designed for mx bikes, then lightened.

I have a shiver, but this is flat out wrong. The mountain bike "shiver" is not the motocross shiver, it doesn't have the same cartridges, it doesn't have the same legs, it doesn't have anything that is the "same". It only sort of looks similer because it is a DC fork.

There are a few versions of the MX shiver, they are 45 and 50mm forks, travel is around 300mm or so, the cartridges that are in the current monster T are adapted from the MX shiver, so if you really want MX performance and parts, you better get an 03 or 04 Monster T.

The mountain bike Shiver DC is a great fork, simple design, HSCV dampers, can take a beating and works beautifully.

Also you need to be very carefull making generaliziations about "CNCed this" is stronger than "cast that".

mr.terrible · Oct 20, 2004

This is a bit offtopic... But regarding the quality of these two forks(Shiver & 888/66). Just to let you know(if you already didn't) that the Shiver is the only in-house product that Marzocchi makes this year. As we all know the Shiver has oustanding reliability even compared to other Marzocchi forks. Maby the in-house production has something to do with this, better quality control/materials etc.? The rest of the Marzocchi lineup is produced abroad by constractors, as far as I know. The fact that a lot of 888's etc. have had some issues regarding quality(leaking lower etc.) is much due to this. So the answer to the original question is very simple, keep the Shiver if you want a care-free fork. Atleast that's the fork I have

Demo9-lexle · Oct 20, 2004

hucker13 said:
I think that the Big Hit needs a 66. If you do freeride it would be a perfect fork. I have a Big Hit but couldn't afford the 66 so I got a Super T.

Hi all together,

I got the 03 Shiver dC in may demo 9 and changed because of BB height to a 888R it was perfect, thus the Shiver was also excellent (had an 01 Siver also)

I sold my Demo9 and I'm waiting for my Demo 8.

I used the 888R in my 03 Big hit DH also perfect in combination with a Swinger 6 way at the rear.

because I sold my Big hit ( I dont need a separate DH and HC freeride bike) I ordered a 66RC, that was about 10 rides in my Big hit and will now find its way into the Demo 8.

So I think I can judge very well about those forks.

First: The 888R is 700 grams lighter than my ole Shiver. The performance of the shiver was good, the 888 R is excellent.

The 66RC has the identic weight as the 888r with 8inch.

so the decision is only 8 inch versus 6.6 and double versus singlecrown. mounting height is nearly identical, the 888R is possible to lower with the Risse crowns.

If you want to drop that high, I would use The 888R, thus the 66RC is excellent in performace too. Only an ETA would be fine if available

So it's on you

I would recommend the 888R

Jm_ · Oct 20, 2004

Demo9-lexle said:
First: The 888R is 700 grams lighter than my ole Shiver. The performance of the shiver was good, the 888 R is excellent.

BS, a shiver is about 3859g, 888 is about 3354g, however if you run both with their integrated stems the figures will be closer due to the 888s integrated stem being on the heavy side. It's not 700g lighter.

Also, we've had someone come on this site and say that their 66RC weighs 6.2lbs, real close to marzocchis claimed figure of 6.1lbs. The 66RC doesn't weigh as much as the 888.

Cooter Brown · Oct 20, 2004

I've got a shiver on my big hit, and I ride it up here in eastern oklahoma/western arkansas, and you couldn't pry that shiver out of my cold dead hands, I love it, so much in fact, I'm looking to buy another one for my next DH bike

JRB · Oct 20, 2004

Cooter - I know where one is.

What Bob is leaving out is that he already can hang with up on XC bikes with a shiver riding flats.

That said, I really like cool new stuff. I also know that some of the hills you climb will suck more with a more slack head tube. I say keep the Shiver and buy the brakes you are always bitching about.

Demo9-lexle · Oct 20, 2004

Jm_ said:
BS, a shiver is about 3859g, 888 is about 3354g, however if you run both with their integrated stems the figures will be closer due to the 888s integrated stem being on the heavy side. It's not 700g lighter.

Also, we've had someone come on this site and say that their 66RC weighs 6.2lbs, real close to marzocchis claimed figure of 6.1lbs. The 66RC doesn't weigh as much as the 888.

I drove a 2001 Shver DC and a 2003 Shiver DC. and a 88r 2004 and ow a 66RC

the Shiver 2003 weighs with cutted steerer and Axle (without Stem) 8,93 pounds meassured on post office (trusted) scale.

The 888 R was with axle and uncutted steerer 7,38 pounds

My 66 RC with axle and cutted steerer (-81 gramms) is 7,165 and my one was the lightest of the four my dealer got. he got 2 with 7.5 pounds (uncutted steerer)

6.1 was the target weight! MZ never reached its targets weights except 888R and as I heared the new marathon Race will be under the targeted 1500 grams.

6.1 is definetly a lie for the weight with axle. Show me a pic of this fork with axle on a post office scale

Logically this weight is not possible. Just calculate.

888R versus 66RC

The 66 has only one crown but at least nearly the same weight as the two crowns of the 888RC no real advantage for 66

The 66 has shorter Aluminum Stanchions (light advantage)
The 66 has shorter Springs (light advantage)
The 66 has a bit les oil and smaller damping unit (light advantage)

The 66 has a steel steerer (big disadvantage)

SO IT could not be real lighter than the 888R

But I dont care about this.. the 66RC is perfect for my application

For DH only, take the 888R, for dropping take the Shiver. but the performance of the 888R is more sensible than a Shiver, thus the Shiver is a real good fork, no doubt

Cooter Brown · Oct 20, 2004

loco-gringo said:
Cooter - I know where one is.

What Bob is leaving out is that he already can hang with up on XC bikes with a shiver riding flats.

well by God, don't hold out on a ninja, who's got it, how much and what year? c'mon now loco, spill it :thumb:

Demo9-lexle · Oct 20, 2004

mr.terrible said:
This is a bit offtopic... But regarding the quality of these two forks(Shiver & 888/66). Just to let you know(if you already didn't) that the Shiver is the only in-house product that Marzocchi makes this year. As we all know the Shiver has oustanding reliability even compared to other Marzocchi forks. Maby the in-house production has something to do with this, better quality control/materials etc.? The rest of the Marzocchi lineup is produced abroad by constractors, as far as I know. The fact that a lot of 888's etc. have had some issues regarding quality(leaking lower etc.) is much due to this. So the answer to the original question is very simple, keep the Shiver if you want a care-free fork. Atleast that's the fork I have

888R and 66 Rc are made in Italy. Maybe they source the lowers (like teh Z1#s) from Suntour, but all other parts and mounting happens in Bologna/Italy we got very strict laws in Europe regarding "Made in" Made in means all the essential production has to be done in the country of the "made in"

JRB · Oct 20, 2004

Cooter Brown said:
well by God, don't hold out on a ninja, who's got it, how much and what year? c'mon now loco, spill it

Bob has it bro. I think it is an 02. It was hardly used before Bob got it from what I understand. He only paid $11 for it though so don't let him rip you off.

Truth be told, he doesn't even land on the fork. He drops and lands so heavy in the back that his shock blows instead. You would really have to get details from Bob though. It is a good fork and he is a maintenance nut, well I am sure about the nut part.

Brian Peterson · Oct 20, 2004

mr.terrible said:
This is a bit offtopic... But regarding the quality of these two forks(Shiver & 888/66). Just to let you know(if you already didn't) that the Shiver is the only in-house product that Marzocchi makes this year. As we all know the Shiver has oustanding reliability even compared to other Marzocchi forks. Maby the in-house production has something to do with this, better quality control/materials etc.? The rest of the Marzocchi lineup is produced abroad by constractors, as far as I know. The fact that a lot of 888's etc. have had some issues regarding quality(leaking lower etc.) is much due to this. So the answer to the original question is very simple, keep the Shiver if you want a care-free fork. Atleast that's the fork I have

Ahh... Leave it to the internet to produce such a load of crap.... Get your facts straight first. The 888 line is produced in Italy. If you knew all that goes on over in Italy at our factory, you would probably be pretty impressed. It isn't just a bunch of people bolting parts together...

Brian

JRB · Oct 20, 2004

Brian Peterson said:
Ahh... Leave it to the internet to produce such a load of crap.... Get your facts straight first. The 888 line is produced in Italy. If you knew all that goes on over in Italy at our factory, you would probably be pretty impressed. It isn't just a bunch of people bolting parts together...

Brian

Yeah - you have a tough time catching a break bro. I should yell at you for breaking my dropout on my Marathon.

Brian Peterson · Oct 20, 2004

I don't think I have a tough time catching anything... Execpt for the guy ahead of me... LOL. But, when I see BS posted, I will call it out as such.

Brian

oCs · Oct 20, 2004

Gramatica said:
I say keep the shiver.... I'm sure the damping of the 66, granted the 66R, Will be just as buttery as a superT..... But you will loose the stiff front end I'm sure you love......Taken in the fact that you are going more into freeride, I still think you can wreak the benefits of the shiver.

The shiver is not stiffer than the 66

Demo9-lexle · Oct 20, 2004

oCs said:
The shiver is not stiffer than the 66

Indeed, the 66RC is way stiffer

Shiver DC or 66?

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