Short Crank Curious…
- Thread starter rideit
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Yeah man, I think you're on it! I think it really comes down to the rider and where they are with fitness, mobility, strength, all that blah. So do what YOU feel is right.
Yes, I'm in Fort Collins. Front Rangy, Northern Colorado, But similar to the likes of Golden or like Colo Springs. Not quite "high altitude" as we're all around 5280' in elevation. And used to it. I'd consider High Altitude at 8K feet.
tl;dr - IMO: the largest gear ratio should be your "bail out" gear. Not the one you constantly use. Unless that's where you're at. Feel free to use it all the time. It doesn't matter. Have fun. Ride your bike! Stretch your limits!
Long story: Remember the days of a triple front chain ring? Well if you don't, let me explain: you typically wouldn't use the small chain ring unless absolutely necessary. Now, this could be used just once in a ride on a crazy tech uphill. Or used the entire ride up the hill. I have many years on both scenarios. Only you know when you need to use this gear. I have many fond memories of bros trying to go UP a gnarly section and having fun with little competitions on that. Just as much as we'd do going down. No one ever thought of comparing to crank length or cassette to front chain ring ratios. You just had fun.
Now, we have just one front chain ring. I rarely find it being in the smallest cog. You know, the fastest of all gear ratios. Usually if it's we're on the road going back to the car. But I find I'm in the biggest cogs most of the time. What size of front chain ring is where I think about things. Usually it's a 30t. Enduro racing it's 32t. At home because I may be hung over, hurt, recovering, trying to win "crazy climb show with the bros" 28t. Just cuz. Like I said, you never really use the smallest cogs but definitely the biggest cogs.
Going from a 26" rear wheel to a 29er definitely effects the gear ratios. So feel free to experiment. In my experience I'm going down in gear ratio, hence the 28t chain ring. I know, I suck.
Your mountains may vary. YMMV?
It's all good. Have fun with what you brung.
The hardest local "rideable" climb is 1,240 freedom-feet in 2.34 freedom-miles. It says the average grade is 10%, but that's not right, it's mostly in the 20s. It's definitely a hell of an effort to keep a decent speed on it. It's not the steepest anything, but to keep it going over that distance at the constant grade is pretty tough without resorting to single-speed/standing slowness. 30-42 works fine for me here, although 30-40 or 30-44 isn't a huge difference either. I lost the KOM while sitting here with my peg-leg, but I don't think easier gearing means much. Gearing is largely a matter of conditioning IME, that's how SS riders go up stuff and going easier in gearing doesn't make me faster or make climbs suddenly possible. There's a range that if you go too far, this doesn't hold true, but people are generally a lot more adaptable than they give themselves credit for. If you want to get better, it's going to require bootstraps. Or an ebike.
Yeah, but some of that triple stuff was just f*cked. 1:1 (22x32, 34 or 36) was just too low to keep moving forward in a lot of climbing situations. With low anti-squat bikes and big travel front forks, this was basically unmanageable IME. It wasn't a "bail out gear", it was pretty much unusable IME. 1:2 was generally your steep-ass climb, because you could drop to it with relatively one motion as shit got steep. You downshifted on the big ring and upshifted on the cassette at the same time, to arrive at 1:2, except you kind of lost out on making a decent transition from the middle ring to the insanely easy gearing of the smallest. You also had to often let off the pedals to get the damn thing to shift down to that 22 granny ring, trying to shift under the slightest bit of power on a steep climb could be difficult to impossible depending on the bike and front derailleur tune/geometry.
Anyways, this IME gave you redundancy and stuff outside a reasonable range, on both sides. 1x is a lot better at giving me just what I need.
yeah but paywalled... seriously? paying for Blister?!
Everything in the world is going behind some sort of subscription bullshit. Its so sad.
These things might only be $3 here, $17 there, $9 over there, but man it adds up if you aren't careful.
I get a lot more value out of paying for them than some of the other shit I pay for. They do proper in depth analysis of stuff, do great head to head comparisons, and I've taken advantage of their personalized recommendations for bikes and skis. Their podcasts are good too. I'm happy to support them. The savings I got on a pair of 4FRNT skis probably covered a few years of subscription alone, and if I get a set of WAO wheels on the next bike with their discount, that'd cover a lifetime subscription.
These look interesting, although I don't know much about 2024 aluminum. Major bonus for being a pinch-bolt design.
www.applemanbicycles.com
2XR Crankset - Appleman Bicycles
Worldwide shipping: $55+ duty/taxes not includedUSA shipping: $15, Free after $550 lead time: 3 weeksIn a hurry? Contact us about expedited service At A Glance The 2XR Crankset stands for “two times radius” and is the brainchild of framebuilder Matt Appleman. Frustrated by cranks that didn’t fit...
www.applemanbicycles.com
Those look nice.These look interesting, although I don't know much about 2024 aluminum. Major bonus for being a pinch-bolt design.
2XR Crankset - Appleman Bicycles
Worldwide shipping: $55+ duty/taxes not includedUSA shipping: $15, Free after $550 lead time: 3 weeksIn a hurry? Contact us about expedited service At A Glance The 2XR Crankset stands for “two times radius” and is the brainchild of framebuilder Matt Appleman. Frustrated by cranks that didn’t fit...
Just read about those on PB and came to link them, the negative would be back to a 104BCD spider, so nothing less than 30T possible if required.
Just put a 60T cassette in the back. The more I look at these cranks, the more I like them. Throw a steel chainring on and you're all set for thousands of miles of riding.
135mm cranks. What the hell
Kiddos ride bikes, too. The cranks are very nice, btw.
135mm cranks. What the hell
I am riding 165 cranks because of clearance on my mullet Titan. I read this article. Then I clicked on the appleman link curious to see what his calculator would tell me to ride. Entered my tibia length - boom - 175 mm
135mm cranks. What the hell
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I bought 175mm cranks because they were in stock, they feel nicer than 165mm until I hit them on something when pedaling, but that's due to shit riding style and forgetting I am now on a dually.
I'm building a mullet Titan as well and had 175mm cranks on the Spitfire, that I'm going to swap over.I am riding 165 cranks because of clearance on my mullet Titan. I read this article. Then I clicked on the appleman link curious to see what his calculator would tell me to ride. Entered my tibia lenght - boom - 175 mm
Too low in your opinion?
As always, depends. I'm running the dropouts in the lower "high" position. I'm noticing it only on descents in rough off camber stuff. With the 165 cranks I can put in some quick pedal strikes where I had a hard time with the 175s. No problem on uphills though. You should be fine.
You don't want a fancy titanium ring?
E-Bikes only, FFS.You don't want a fancy titanium ring?
I hope I won't ever need it.
Anyone having success drilling and taping forged cranks? If yes which model of cranks did you use?
I am building a 2015 Giant trance for my 12 years old son and would like some shorter cranks. I found those but with only 123mm between arms they most likely will not fit the frame https://www.vpace.de/en/vpace-children-s-crankset-incl.-chainring?number=1001451&c=35
Shimanos look like that inside
Would that be enough meat to drill and tap close to the pointy void?
I am building a 2015 Giant trance for my 12 years old son and would like some shorter cranks. I found those but with only 123mm between arms they most likely will not fit the frame https://www.vpace.de/en/vpace-children-s-crankset-incl.-chainring?number=1001451&c=35
Shimanos look like that inside
Would that be enough meat to drill and tap close to the pointy void?
I think the old rule of metals is that the holes need to be 3x the diameter apart from each other. In the case of that crank arm, it looks like the hollow part in comparison to the pedal hole would be close to that rule. But it's been 20 years since I took that class, so what do I know.
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Shorter than what?
165s are fine for a 12yr old (Fathered many). If he can fit an adult bike he'll be just fine on adult length cranks.
I don't think its a good idea, as aren't Shimano hollowtech cranks two pieces of metal that are then joined together? You might risk compromising that junction.
Plus even if it worked and you got the hole drilled, who has a tap for the reverse threaded side? :edit: ok so Park Tool, at least, has these taps and they are pretty cheap, but quality might be questionable for cutting new threads?
you are right guys, that is not such a good idea...
my buddy who is a mechanical engineer was not thrilled by it!
@Gary
I am trying the idea of compensating for a too low BB. The stock bike has a high BB but after putting a 26" at the rear (basically the only fitting wheel I have) and swapping the shock for a 190x51 (from a 200x51), the BB is now crazy low. You will be right to think that I am looking for more problem than I already have but hey, I am a nerd and think that my son would benefit from a lower BB and also shorter cranks on a bike that should be predominantly used in bikeparks.
I could do simple and put the original shock back and use the 175mm crankset I have in my parts bin. And it is probably where I will end. But for the moment I enjoy contemplating other options
my buddy who is a mechanical engineer was not thrilled by it!
@Gary
I am trying the idea of compensating for a too low BB. The stock bike has a high BB but after putting a 26" at the rear (basically the only fitting wheel I have) and swapping the shock for a 190x51 (from a 200x51), the BB is now crazy low. You will be right to think that I am looking for more problem than I already have
but hey, I am a nerd and think that my son would benefit from a lower BB and also shorter cranks on a bike that should be predominantly used in bikeparks.I could do simple and put the original shock back and use the 175mm crankset I have in my parts bin. And it is probably where I will end. But for the moment I enjoy contemplating other options
how tall is said 12 year old?
This needs quantifying.
Plus pics. Even if just to laugh at its seat angle.
Ps. I built my GF a trance a few years ago as an XC bike and slung on 26s f&r. It has my old 165 Saint cranks but it's not low enough that it desperately needs them. She's kinda a novice and never gets pedal strikes. Eventually I'll probably swap the cranks out for lighter shimano 170s and stick the Saints on my capra where they belong.
Mine were all somewhere around 5ft by 12.
Youngest is 13 now and just over 5'4" with size 8 feet
ie. She'd have grown out of silly little cranks pretty fast
There is a picture in my first post, for the moment without headset. The bb was around 31-32cm above the ground. I will update when the headset arrives.
Propaine has a 115 mm crank they install on their kids bikes:
www.propain-bikes.com
Funn made short cranks, I think square taper though:
An option from Rotor: https://www.kaniabikes.com/zubehoer/zubehoer-20-zoller/tretkurbel-rotor-bcd-104-einfach/143?number=rotor135 0,42 kg&c=43
Kurbel 1st Ride Frechdax 115mm Inkl. Kettenblatt Und Innenlager | PROPAIN Bicycles
1st Ride Kurbel 115 mm
www.propain-bikes.com
Funn made short cranks, I think square taper though:
FUNN Soljam cranks 150 mm BMX [funn_crank_soljam_150_36] - 1999Kč : KATMAR Bike Center, specialisté na MTB, BMX, MX a Enduro
KATMAR Bike Center FUNN Soljam cranks 150 mm BMX [funn_crank_soljam_150_36] - Funn Soljam BMX Racing Crankset Crank Material: Forged. BDC: 110mm. Chainring: AL-6061-T6. BB Axle Width: 118mm. Chainline: 44mm. Crank Bolts: M8 capless. Chainring Bolts: Steel. Weight: 806g (175mm). Designed for...
www.dartmoor-bikes.cz
An option from Rotor: https://www.kaniabikes.com/zubehoer/zubehoer-20-zoller/tretkurbel-rotor-bcd-104-einfach/143?number=rotor135 0,42 kg&c=43
Porpain might have worked but is out of stock...Propaine has a 115 mm crank they install on their kids bikes:
Kurbel 1st Ride Frechdax 115mm Inkl. Kettenblatt Und Innenlager | PROPAIN Bicycles
1st Ride Kurbel 115 mm
Funn made short cranks, I think square taper though:
FUNN Soljam cranks 150 mm BMX [funn_crank_soljam_150_36] - 1999Kč : KATMAR Bike Center, specialisté na MTB, BMX, MX a Enduro
KATMAR Bike Center FUNN Soljam cranks 150 mm BMX [funn_crank_soljam_150_36] - Funn Soljam BMX Racing Crankset Crank Material: Forged. BDC: 110mm. Chainring: AL-6061-T6. BB Axle Width: 118mm. Chainline: 44mm. Crank Bolts: M8 capless. Chainring Bolts: Steel. Weight: 806g (175mm). Designed for...www.dartmoor-bikes.cz
An option from Rotor: https://www.kaniabikes.com/zubehoer/zubehoer-20-zoller/tretkurbel-rotor-bcd-104-einfach/143?number=rotor135 0,42 kg&c=43
I also found plenty of short cranks with square taper but I haven't found a way to fit them to a pressfit frame
It looks nice! How tall is she?
i got a medium frame too