[TheMontashu]

I have worked at a local shop for almost 2 years now. I am the first (well second) to admit that the shop isn't the best as far as everything business and ordering related, although we do have an EXTREMELY AMAZING mechanic and a couple good ones. I see all these threads about how horrible the LBS is bla bla bla, and sometimes the people are totally right and the LBS does totally suck.
That aside it seems like some people wont give the LBS a chance and hate them no matter what.

Yesterday I got a call at opening with a guys asking for a shimano es something or other BB, we had one in the BB drawer and I asked what size he needed. He responded with "there is only one size it's fine, thanks a Lot I'll be in shortly." I set aside the BB for the guy so I can find it when he comes in. The guy walks in, with a catalog from some mail order catalog (LBS people HATE mail order crap, there is nothing that will get you and attitude faster from an LBS employee than bringing in mail order crap) I ignore the catalog and ask him what I can help him with. He tells me that he is in for the BB. I go and grab it and go to ring it up and he looks at the price (40$) and pulls out his catalog and says that bla bla bla has it for 30$ and that, that is what he is willing to pay. I reply that the BB is 40$ and if he wants to pay 30 he will have to Wate and order it online, he started getting mad and trying to tell me that I am going to give it to him for 30. I simply told him that we are not a discounter and that if he wanted a discount price he would have to not be able to ride his bike right away and get it shipped. He finally said he would pay the 40$ after I put the BB on the counter he gives me an angry look and says, "This is the wrong size." I reply with "When I answered the phone you said the size was no an issue (I thought about telling him that he said it only came in 1 size like he did but that would have been directly calling him a lair and would have made him more mad) He proceeds to tell me I am a lair and go complain to my boss. (who is super cool and overheard the phone call) The guy left all pissed off and saying he would never come back.

Today a guy comes in
Me "what can I do for you today"
Him "do you guys carry trek"
Me "no we carry specialized and cannondale for the most part"
Him "you don't carry trek?"
Me "no, we carry specialized, cannondale, Santa Cruz, and seven"
Him "can you order me a trek"
Me "no, we are not a trek dealer"
Him "so you cant order me a trek, how come"
Me "because we are not a dealer"
Him (almost yelling) "You are providing me terrible service, thanks for wasting my time." and he stormed out
It just seems like there are some people who hate the LBS and there is nothing you can do to change that.

 

[loco-gringo]

I love the Trek conversation. Pure beauty. I am sure to get a huge dose of the LBS life soon. You can tell him we sell Trek.

 

[JRogers]

*yawn*

Whatever. Lots of bike shops match mail order prices (well, for good customers, in any case). And I think it's a bit of an overgeneralization to say that all LBS employees hate mail order. I worked in my local shop for 4 years and did not and do not hate mail order companies.

 

[mshred]

just ten bucks.... haaaa!! "can you order me a trek?"

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

what´s wrong with you?
what´s up with the grammatical correctness

 

[loco-gringo]

I agree with JRogers. A "some" or a "most" would work better in those statements about how both shops and patrons view things. I don't think "many" shops really think the Internet or mail order is suspect. If you don't suck at being a shop it's a non-issue.

 

[TheMontashu]

*yawn*

Whatever. Lots of bike shops match mail order prices (well, for good customers, in any case). And I think it's a bit of an overgeneralization to say that all LBS employees hate mail order. I worked in my local shop for 4 years and did not and do not hate mail order companies.

It's not that I hate mail order companies, I just hate that they undercut us and loose the LBS money, and the fact that there stores have idiots who know nothing about bikes working there for the most aprt. The bike industry is RETAIL, do you go to safeway and haggle NO, do people do it at sears NO. The price is the price is the price, if you are some randome person from the street I am not going to give you a discount. Only when people are spending alot of money on bikes and such, or be personel friends, should people get deals. Come in off the street and try expect me to cut our prophet in half, that is SUPER LAME.

 

[TheMontashu]

what´s wrong with you?
what´s up with the grammatical correctness

I started going to school

 

[SofaKingBanned]

The bike industry is RETAIL, do you go to safeway and haggle NO, do people do it at sears NO.

damn straight I do. Ok, not haggle, but if Sears and a competitor carry and identical product, but the other guy has it cheaper, I'll ask Sears to match the lower price.

If Sears says, "no", that's cool. Just saying that LBS are nothing special in this regard.

...if he wants to pay 30 he will have to Wate and order it online, he started getting mad and trying to tell me that I am going to give it to him for 30. I simply told him that we are not a discounter and that if he wanted a discount price he would have to not be able to ride his bike right away and get it shipped.

IF you said that, don't do it again. With all due respect, save the commentary for your co-workers after I leave the store.

I'm not saying you're wrong for denying to match or for thinking it, just that the commentary is inappropriate.

 

[blue]

If you don't suck at being a shop it's a non-issue.

Exactly.

 

[sanjuro]

I joke with you all the time, but I hope you believe that a more senior person would be better dealing with idiots than you would.

While I am very good making people very angry, I also have dealt with a thousand irate customers, and I have made many of them very happy.

One thing is to predict when customers will be a pain-in-the-a, and have a strategy to deal with them. For example, any customer who has a mail order catalog in his hands has to be told that we do not compete with mail order pricing, and while we have higher prices we offer more services.

Frankly, people will try to bull over a younger staff member but not willing to do so with a senior one. When I was a teenager, I referred many of the difficult customers to my boss who was only in her twenties, but seemed to work.

Finally, the Trek customer is an idiot. I would have suggested buying one of the brands we sold, and if that did not convince him, then I would suggest going to the Trek dealer and being done with him.

If that didn't shut him up, then I would say, "Do you go into the Honda dealer for a Ford?"

 

[burly50]

It's not that I hate mail order companies, I just hate that they undercut us and loose the LBS money, and the fact that there stores have idiots who know nothing about bikes working there for the most aprt. The bike industry is RETAIL, do you go to safeway and haggle NO, do people do it at sears NO. The price is the price is the price, if you are some randome person from the street I am not going to give you a discount. Only when people are spending alot of money on bikes and such, or be personel friends, should people get deals. Come in off the street and try expect me to cut our prophet in half, that is SUPER LAME.

Car dealerships are retail. Do you walk into a car dealer and hand him exactly what the sticker says, or do you haggle? There is nothing wrong with haggling. You as the retailer have 2 options. Lower your price, or don't. You shouldn't take it personal if someone trys to get a better price. I do understand your point about the mail order angle the haggler in question used. I go to the bike shop well informed about parts and their respective prices, both on the net, as well as in the MO catalogues. If I haggle, I never use the "I can get this for $xx on the internet" approach. I just think it's bad form. If the shop can't meet the web price, plus the shipping cost, taking into consideration the wait, and potential hassle, I just say thank you and go home and order it.
I have spent over $6000 (2 bikes and parts) at my LBS over the past few months. I haggled the hell out of them for both bikes, the first bike being my first purchase there. They didn't take it personally, and they did give me a sweet deal, on both bikes. When I go to buy some thing there now, they just give me awsome deals w/o even asking for them. I show my appreciation for this by not being a dick when they can't give me a deal. Everyone is different though.
As far as the Trek guy goes. F him for being a retard.

 

[BigMike]

I am in agreement with you here, but there are much better ways to handle the situation. I work at a local, family owned shop, and I am also not a fan of mail order. If the guy had come in and said I can get it for $30 online, why is it $40 here, I would have said I would have been glad to give it to him for the FULL price he was going to pay online. That would be what it costs+shipping. That would probably have come out to more than $40 anyway, and if not, I would have taken the few bucks off and had a customer that would come back.

The thing people don't get about mail order is its usually not as cheap as they think it is. Some guy came in looking at a 2005 bike we had discounted a few days ago, I let him test ride it, explained everything, showed him everything about the bike, and then he pulled the "I found it online for $150 cheaper." Yes, that did make me a little mad, but I calmly explained to him that yes, he probably could find it $150 cheaper online, but shipping would be at least $45, possibly more. Plus, when it comes in the box, he'd have to bring it to a shop to have it built, thats another $60. Now he's down to only saving $45. When buying a bike from our shop, you also get lifetime adjustments on the brakes and gears, normally $10 adjustments. If he needs both derailures and both brakes adjusted, he's down to only saving $5. Anything after that, and he's losing money. Not to mention the support of having a local shop to take your bike to if you have a problem or warranty issue.

Bottom line, Mail order is not always cheaper

 

[Jeronimo]

I go and grab it and go to ring it up and he looks at the price (40$) and pulls out his catalog and says that bla bla bla has it for 30$ and that, that is what he is willing to pay.

Today a guy comes in
Me "what can I do for you today"
Him "do you guys carry trek"
Me "no we carry specialized and cannondale for the most part"
Him "you don't carry trek?"
Me "no, we carry specialized, cannondale, Santa Cruz, and seven"
Him "can you order me a trek"
Me "no, we are not a trek dealer"
Him "so you cant order me a trek, how come"
Me "because we are not a dealer"
Him (almost yelling) "You are providing me terrible service, thanks for wasting my time." and he stormed out
It just seems like there are some people who hate the LBS and there is nothing you can do to change that.

For idiot #1, I would have pointed to the phone number to the MO company on the catalog in his grimy paw. What a scumbag, bringing the catalog of a competitor into your store. I bet he pays close to $10 in shipping.

For idiot #2, I would have used persistent repition, "We do not sell trek", repeated in the same calm tone/cadence after each time he responded until the 1/2 watt bulb lit over his empty head.

A good friend of mine is notorious for kicking idiots out of his shop. It's always fun to watch and even assist from time to time.

 

[BigMike]

A good friend of mine is notorious for kicking idiots out of his shop. It's always fun to watch and even assist from time to time.

The guy that owns the store next to us is like that, but he does it in a very............ interesting way His company is a UPS/FedEx/USPS Shipping place, and Uhaul rental.

When somone starts to hassle him, or starts to mouth off to him, he just simply states "get the fVck out of my store, and never come back."

I like his style!

 

[Jeronimo]

The guy that owns the store next to us is like that, but he does it in a very............ interesting way His company is a UPS/FedEx/USPS Shipping place, and Uhaul rental.

When somone starts to hassle him, or starts to mouth off to him, he just simply states "get the fVck out of my store, and never come back."

I like his style!

My friend just does not have time to hassle or haggle with idiots and if they go and "tell their friends", birds of a feather and all of that. A businss can reserve the right to refuse service for anyone and should also add, "especially idiots". It sounds like the guy in the store next to you doesn't have time for idiots either and more power to him for letting idiots know they are not welcome there. He should follow up with, "be sure to tell your friends" after giving them the boot. The worst idiots on mtbr all rag on my friend's shop and that makes him very happy because it gives him time to provide service to his good clientele.

 

[benno]

I started going to school

Gee, I'd never guess:

expect me to cut our prophet in half

Why would you cut a prophet in half? They're nice bikes...

 

[brungeman]

It's not that I hate mail order companies, I just hate that they undercut us and loose the LBS money, and the fact that there stores have idiots who know nothing about bikes working there for the most aprt. The bike industry is RETAIL, do you go to safeway and haggle NO, do people do it at sears NO. The price is the price is the price, if you are some randome person from the street I am not going to give you a discount. Only when people are spending alot of money on bikes and such, or be personel friends, should people get deals. Come in off the street and try expect me to cut our prophet in half, that is SUPER LAME.

The problem with your statement is that if you do it for good customers etc, and you do it for people spending lots why not do it for everyone?

Your examples are flawed. You have given an example of Sears etc. to say the price is the price... when actually you provide a recreational or transportation vehicle from a specialty shop/dealership... many similarities with a car dealership, or a motorcycle shop. Yes MC shops and Car dealers work deals all the time, and like in a bike shop they probably treat repeat customers better than "Joe off the street".

I work in a shop also, and I don't hate mailorder, it is a part of the business that can not be changed, but what the shop I work at provides to its customers is something that the mailorder cant. Piece of mind, and good service done right with the right parts in a timely fashion. The shop has been around since 1955 and its longevity is in direct correlation with the service, and service after the sale.

I look at someone who brings in a mail order catalog as a challenge. I have to show them why we are better to buy from. I don't hate mail order. People bring in parts from mail order all the time to have them put on their bikes. We smile and gladly take their business. in cases where the parts don't work, we explain the situation with the customer, and gladly order the right parts. In most cases we do an exchange of parts for them at no cost, or for what ever the difference is. They walk out smiling with their bike, and in most cases they come back the next time, sans parts ready for us to order the right parts and hand them back a professionally tuned bike back.


oh and PS......

Come in off the street and try expect me to cut our prophet in half, that is SUPER LAME.

I thought most of the time people just did something like nail Prophets to a cross...

 

[Reactor]

customer #1 has poor social skills. I'd never ask a shop without a price matching policy to match someone's else's price...I would just go somewhere else if the price were more than I was willing to pay. Usually I can mail-order the part and have it within two days, If I can't I pay the premium for local part, and don't gripe about it. Luckly I live near a performance bike and they carry almost everything I normally need at fairly reasonable prices, and they price match mail-order. You really should talk to the manager and have an agreed upon plan for handling customers with mail order pricing.

The grocery business is a pretty poor comparison to a bike shop. The profit margin in the food business is extremely low and the volume and competition very high. Car dealers are a much more apt comparison, and very few people go to car dealerships for parts. Instead they go to the local shucks/checker/autozone. In essence the only people buying parts from an auto dealer are the poor schmucks who can't work on their own cars, and the dealers know this and extort the living hell out of them. I got so tired trying to support my LBS and getting poor service that I bought my own tools and haven't taken a bike in for service in about a two years. I've even built up three bikes in the interim.



The second customer is just an idiot.

 

[TheMontashu]

The problem with your statement is that if you do it for good customers etc, and you do it for people spending lots why not do it for everyone?

Why not do it for every one???? It's pretty simple, here is an example; we have a costomer who bought 2 sevens from us, one full record axiom, and a duo mountian bike. He didn't like the XT dual control on the duo, so we gave him a killer deal on some XO stuff and hopes. The guy has given us literaly more than 10 grand, he brings beer and hangs out, he gets a deal. Some ass hole off the street who has not only not given us money in the past but is a douche bag is simply not going to get a deal.

 

[TheMontashu]

customer #1 has poor social skills. I'd never ask a shop without a price matching policy to match someone's else's price...I would just go somewhere else if the price were more than I was willing to pay. Usually I can mail-order the part and have it within two days, If I can't I pay the premium for local part, and don't gripe about it. Luckly I live near a performance bike and they carry almost everything I normally need at fairly reasonable prices, and they price match mail-order. You really should talk to the manager and have an agreed upon plan for handling customers with mail order pricing.

The grocery business is a pretty poor comparison to a bike shop. The profit margin in the food business is extremely low and the volume and competition very high. Car dealers are a much more apt comparison, and very few people go to car dealerships for parts. Instead they go to the local shucks/checker/autozone. In essence the only people buying parts from an auto dealer are the poor schmucks who can't work on their own cars, and the dealers know this and extort the living hell out of them. I got so tired trying to support my LBS and getting poor service that I bought my own tools and haven't taken a bike in for service in about a two years. I've even built up three bikes in the interim.



The second customer is just an idiot.

The bike industry gets 34% mark up, it's pretty freaken poor. That doesn't mean we pay 66$ for a 100$ part, it means we pay 300$ for a 400$ bike

 

[loco-gringo]

The bike industry gets 34% mark up, it's pretty freaken poor. That doesn't mean we pay 66$ for a 100$ part, it means we pay 300$ for a 400$ bike

34 points is a poor markup? You'd die in the manufacturing business.

 

[sanjuro]

Why not do it for every one???? It's pretty simple, here is an example; we have a costomer who bought 2 sevens from us, one full record axiom, and a duo mountian bike. He didn't like the XT dual control on the duo, so we gave him a killer deal on some XO stuff and hopes. The guy has given us literaly more than 10 grand, he brings beer and hangs out, he gets a deal. Some ass hole off the street who has not only not given us money in the past but is a douche bag is simply not going to get a deal.

The answer is to not give anyone a discount if possible. If I bought 10 cars, if I didn't ask for a discount, no car salesman would offer it.

In our business where everyone thinks they deserve a discount, it can be tough to say no.

Frankly, if our super customer did not ask for a discount, he would not receive one as long as he was happy paying full retail.

 

[JapaneseZero]

I sell to the federal government... 2-8 percent markup... on multi million dollar deals

 

[Jeronimo]

Frankly, if our super customer did not ask for a discount, he would not receive one as long as he was happy paying full retail.

I never have to ask and always get the "good guy" discount. Then again, I only patronize "good" bike shops.

 

[binary visions]

I never have to ask and always get the "good guy" discount. Then again, I only patronize "good" bike shops.

I never asked for a discount at my last LBS either, and the guy always cut me some kind of deal based on the fact that I was a regular customer and brought friends and family in there.

I'd say that's an excellent business practice, as you've immediately converted a customer who may or may not feel strongly about patronizing only your shop, into a customer who has a strong incentive to shop there exclusively.

 

[PsychO!1]

Some ass hole off the street who has not only not given us money in the past but is a douche bag is simply not going to get a deal.

Soooo, your new customers are labled asshole douche bags? How much does it cost to lose this label?

Your attitude, my freind, is the problem with LBSs.

 

[sanjuro]

Soooo, your new customers are labled asshole douche bags? How much does it cost to lose this label?

Your attitude, my freind, is the problem with LBSs.

Keep in mind, the customer in question didn't know what he wanted, got real angry, and at the last second changed his mind about everything.

That guy is an asshole douchebag.

 

[golgiaparatus]

I started going to school

"he will have to Wate and order it online"

 

[SofaKingBanned]

I never have to ask and always get the "good guy" discount. Then again, I only patronize "good" bike shops.

I'm sorry, are you saying Sanjuro's shop is a bad shop?

 

[TheMontashu]

Soooo, your new customers are labled asshole douche bags? How much does it cost to lose this label?

Your attitude, my freind, is the problem with LBSs.

It has nothing to do with how much he spends, it has to do with the fact that he got pissed at me for his **** up.

 

[SofaKingBanned]

It has nothing to do with how much he spends, it has to do with the fact that he got pissed at me for his **** up.

It's cool. His post now means you're no longer the dumbest one in this thread

 

[chicodude]

It has nothing to do with how much he spends, it has to do with the fact that he got pissed at me for his **** up.

No joke. If the lbs can't get you something its like...Oh well, I'll go somewhere else and get it.

 

[sanjuro]

I'm sorry, are you saying Sanjuro's shop is a bad shop?

I await JD's visit to my shop, and he steps out of line, he will learn first hand how a moolie beater is used...

 

[JRogers]

Soooo, your new customers are labled asshole douche bags? How much does it cost to lose this label?

Your attitude, my freind, is the problem with LBSs.

Exactly. So, maybe this Trek Guy was kind of a douche, but whatever. He clearly just doesn't know how the industry works. How many people in the outside world actually do? It's not the same as walking into a Honda dealer and asking for Jeep if the customer doesn't see it like that. How does he know that shops can't get something they don't stock? People get nutty ideas about what they want or need in a bike. The LBS employee's job is to steer them to something you have, not treat them like idiots for not knowing how the industry works. If you're working in an LBS, you probably spend most of your day explaining crap to people- crap you've known for years and is second nature- but that person probably knows none of it.

As for the mail order thing- I would try to convince people to buy from the LBS if it made sense. When I worked most of the jobs I've had in my life (actually, ALL the jobs) I couldn't afford to have a decent bike that would hold up through a few seasons without buying some mail order stuff. Some LBSs straight up rip people off on aftermarket parts. If a shop is pulling a price out of it's butt, I won't buy it.

Furthermore, I think back to the last place I lived. There were 2 shops- one was pretty cool and the other wasn't really. If the cool shop wasn't there, I would have bought almost all my stuff mail order. I got small stuff from that other shop, but I wouldn't want to support those clowns if I could get parts somewhere else cheaper.

 

[PsychO!1]

Keep in mind, the customer in question didn't know what he wanted, got real angry, and at the last second changed his mind about everything.

That guy is an asshole douchebag.

THAT guy was, I didn't take the quote as directed towards THAT customer, but as a gereralization of customers. And the fact he has spent no money here should NOTHING to do with it.

 

[sanjuro]

Exactly. So, maybe this Trek Guy was kind of a douche, but whatever. He clearly just doesn't know how the industry works. How many people in the outside world actually do? It's not the same as walking into a Honda dealer and asking for Jeep if the customer doesn't see it like that. How does he know that shops can't get something they don't stock? People get nutty ideas about what they want or need in a bike. The LBS employee's job is to steer them to something you have, not treat them like idiots for not knowing how the industry works. If you're working in an LBS, you probably spend most of your day explaining crap to people- crap you've known for years and is second nature- but that person probably knows none of it.

As for the mail order thing- I would try to convince people to buy from the LBS if it made sense. When I worked most of the jobs I've had in my life (actually, ALL the jobs) I couldn't afford to have a decent bike that would hold up through a few seasons without buying some mail order stuff. Some LBSs straight up rip people off on aftermarket parts. If a shop is pulling a price out of it's butt, I won't buy it.

Furthermore, I think back to the last place I lived. There were 2 shops- one was pretty cool and the other wasn't really. If the cool shop wasn't there, I would have bought almost all my stuff mail order. I got small stuff from that other shop, but I wouldn't want to support those clowns if I could get parts somewhere else cheaper.

I do think a senior person would have handled this situation better, not that TheMontashu did anything wrong.

However, I never want to hear about the LBS ripoff. If I felt like charging 500% markup, a customer is welcome to leave if he did not like the price.

The only LBS ripoff is not doing the work or selling used as new.

 

[TheMontashu]

THAT guy was, I didn't take the quote as directed towards THAT customer, but as a gereralization of customers. And the fact he has spent no money here should NOTHING to do with it.

at times money does have something to do with it, actualy often times people that have spend more money do get diferent treatment. First off in the way the get service done on there bikes. When costomers bring in nice bikes purchased from us I usualy do small stuff on the spot for several reasons; they have spent alot of money with us and I like to put out extra effort to make them happy, there bikes are nice and I would rather work on a nomad over a huffy, and third generaly the good costomers hang out at the shop and socialize and they tend to be cool people.

 

[blue]

The bike industry gets 34% mark up, it's pretty freaken poor.

Baaahaahahahahahahaahahaha...

 

[ElTORO]

Well I'm a super customer at my LBS I more or less ride for them. They have always hooked it up, well not at first took about a year and $4000. in parts but they are always cool. Velopro SB (Downtown) good shop!!

I kind of disagree with some of your statements about LBS not being able to order bike's they don't carry. I was just talking about this with the Manager at my shop. He said he can order any bike from any company in 1's & 2's it just takes a phone call. But they won't do it for regular customers to much time and normally not worth it. This is a Kona/Scott Dealer. And they are hooking me up with a Santa Cruz V10 for 07.

So yah I went to a Kona dealer and got a Santa Cruz.