I concur.
Short LBS rant (from the employee side)
- Thread starter TheMontashu
- Start date
It's called EP (or hookups through a rep), most shops won't do it unless you're pimpass buddies with them.
That's fine....I just don't like when shop workers get all filled with hate on mail order companies while having that kind of attitude. Go ahead, charge a 500% markup...but don't be pissed or surprised if/when they DO walk out and buy from somewhere else.
thats not true , any shop can get a santa cruz bike, they sell to who ever cause their small and take all the bussiness they can get, but they are talking trek which you have to be a dealer to sell, you cant get one or two bikes from them, the shop im at is a garyfisher lemond dealer and we cant get trek and trek ownes them.
Ok got me their, I train & ride/party with everyone in the shop.
That's cool. As long as no complains about how part X cost $5 more at the bike shop than at Pupergo, or the local shop tells you to go bite it if you they won't discount a thing to a stranger who couldn't get his parts from UPS in time...
Ordering a single bike from a smaler company (even SC isnt HUGE) especialy at EP usualy isnt TOO bad. But a company like, giant, specialized, trek and what not, you need to be a dealer
The grocery business has an average profit margin of about 1%, and operating expenses of less than 10%, and they have to price match, give double and triple coupons and advertise "loss leaders" to get people in the door. When you see the $2.99 ribeye advertised, the store is probably taking it in the shorts to get customers in the door knowing they'll probably buy $100-200 in other groceries.
Your margin is considerably higher than a typical auto dealer, computer hardware store and many other businesses. Last time I bought network equipment for a large project I got my employeer the sales company made about 5%, I know because I had friends at the manufacturer.
I've said before, and I'll say it again. Internet bike and part sales are a fact. If LBS's want to survive they have to adapt. Obviously it's hard, if not impossible, for an LBS to compete solely on price. That leaves customer service and availability.
You can't expect a customer to wait two weeks for a special order and pay more than the internet price, they just aren't that dumb (o.k., a few are). What you reasonably can expect is that a customer will pay full (or near full) price for a part in hand when they need it. You can explain it by saying it simply costs more for you to stock infrequently needed parts, and the trade off is they get the part now.
As for customer service, an LBS can't afford to P*ss off any potential customers. Not that you or your shop are guilty of any of these but, these have happened to me. If the shop promises a bike will be ready at 3:00 PM it needs to be ready. A shop can't afford to turn away people for service because they have a two week waiting list. They can't promise to build a wheelset and then forget to order the parts after they have the customers money, and make excuses when a customer calls. Especially when you can order a wheel set custom built over the internet and have it delivered by the end of the week.
You could probably found a better way to deal with the first customer, but that's between you and the manager. My suggestion is to charge what the part costs mail order, plus the shipping cost minus the sales tax for a part if a customer shows up with a in-stock mail order price. You could have shown the first customer his effective price was about $37.50 with shipping, charged him that and he would have left moderately happy, instead of p*ssed off, now he'll tell everyone he talks to about how bad your shop is and how an employee yelled at him (even if it's not true).
For what it's worth both the potential customers sound like losers, but they talk to other people who aren't necessarly as big a losers, and might one day visit your shop.
P.P.S Nobody (even LBS employees) should have take abuse from strangers, that's what friends and family are for ;^)
are you confusing mark-up with profits?Baaahaahahahahahahaahahaha...
I think he is, we make almost ZERO profit after overhead
1) It makes no sense to compare radically different industries - that's the old 'apples and pancake mix' argument. Seriously. The retail specialty bike biz is set at about 34% mean profit margin because that's what keeps the lights on.
Talented mechanics are paid about the same as grocery store stock clerks.
Shop managers drive Honda CIVIC coupes, at least 5 years old.
This margin is what keeps things about where they are now.
Now, mean profit margin for Bike MO - not the same as Retail [for this discussion] is around 23%-25%.
There might be assemblers and wheel builders, but for the most part, it's two or three guys, some phones, a website and a shipping department.
No free tune-ups, no mechanics fixing, adjusting, installing product [usually an MO customer gets either an LBS or the Mfr to fix it]
Overhead is much lower.
As is - it seems to work, just like the Retail version, at the higher margin.
2) What I usually did with MO guys - the ones who were reasonable and polite and such like - was work a middle ground. I told my sales staff that if there were any problems, don't argue - kick it up the ladder.
One thing you don't want is the jr. employee to make wild discounts or, conversely, get into a resentful shouting match with any customer.
For those few MO-types that were abusive or just plain nuts - I generally told them that the shop wasn't authorized to offer discounts outside of legally published coupons or other promotional offers [slick legal-ease talk] and failing to produce any such coupon or other offer prevented any discounts. "But check out the Independent for any upcoming promotions!" (- local newspaper)
3) Trek foo' - This would happen a lot, especially since the other major shop in town [our despised competitor] carried all the lines we didn't - customers would want us to sell them the bike that the other guy had on the floor - they just didn't want the other shop to get their business.
I exlpained that in most cases, we'd need to sign a Dealership Agreement which would entail purchasing at least 100 bikes, and maintaining at least 25% of that as built and on the floor.
I also would tell them that not all lines were so stringent, but Trek, Specialized, etc were very protective of their established dealers and wouldn't sell just one bike to another shop.
That took me about 10-15 confused an annoyed customers to figure out, but from then on, no one walked away angry, at least.
Talented mechanics are paid about the same as grocery store stock clerks.
Shop managers drive Honda CIVIC coupes, at least 5 years old.
This margin is what keeps things about where they are now.
Now, mean profit margin for Bike MO - not the same as Retail [for this discussion] is around 23%-25%.
There might be assemblers and wheel builders, but for the most part, it's two or three guys, some phones, a website and a shipping department.
No free tune-ups, no mechanics fixing, adjusting, installing product [usually an MO customer gets either an LBS or the Mfr to fix it]
Overhead is much lower.
As is - it seems to work, just like the Retail version, at the higher margin.
2) What I usually did with MO guys - the ones who were reasonable and polite and such like - was work a middle ground. I told my sales staff that if there were any problems, don't argue - kick it up the ladder.
One thing you don't want is the jr. employee to make wild discounts or, conversely, get into a resentful shouting match with any customer.
For those few MO-types that were abusive or just plain nuts - I generally told them that the shop wasn't authorized to offer discounts outside of legally published coupons or other promotional offers [slick legal-ease talk] and failing to produce any such coupon or other offer prevented any discounts. "But check out the Independent for any upcoming promotions!" (- local newspaper)
3) Trek foo' - This would happen a lot, especially since the other major shop in town [our despised competitor] carried all the lines we didn't - customers would want us to sell them the bike that the other guy had on the floor - they just didn't want the other shop to get their business.
I exlpained that in most cases, we'd need to sign a Dealership Agreement which would entail purchasing at least 100 bikes, and maintaining at least 25% of that as built and on the floor.
I also would tell them that not all lines were so stringent, but Trek, Specialized, etc were very protective of their established dealers and wouldn't sell just one bike to another shop.
That took me about 10-15 confused an annoyed customers to figure out, but from then on, no one walked away angry, at least.
that is your choice to offer deals to who you want, but as I said before change your outlook and your disposition, and try to convert the guy, not try to talk down to him. there is a local shop where a bunch of richie snob a-holes shop. (my friend owns the shop) we get more people from this shop coming to us cause they don't like being talked down to than I care to mention. Some of the kids my friend has working for him have no clue what it means to provide good customer service. It sounds from your own description of the situation that you were turned off from the getgo, and sounds like you were ready for a confrontation instead of a conversion!
these are my observations from the facts that you yourself presented. only my observations and opinions.
very well put! I can tell you have spent a bit of time in retail as well!
I expect no special treatment at LBS's. I came into my (new) local bike shop about two months ago to have my wheel trued, I payed full price. I came in again about a week later to have my brakes tuned up and to have some new levers put on, I payed full price. I come in about a week ago to have bike gone over and have everything tuned up (I'm selling it) and they recognized I had been in there not only to get my bike fixed/maintanced but to get my helmet, pads etc etc. and they hooked it up by not charging me anything on the maintance.
I do support the one local shop I like (south mountain cycles). I've spend about $9K of my money there in the last year (racer-x and moto-lite frames, two high end forks, various components, and full enduro pro) and I've referred friends there too. They've earned their keep by being friendly, helpful, and generally very efficient at getting work done. They've made a mistake or two but didn't hesitate to make things right. They also didn't BS me about getting parts they didn't have, and were helpful in getting a couple of very particular parts my wife wanted. They usually have routine maintaince parts. The shop is small, but the people who work there really seem to like being in the bike business. They generally sell stuff at about the MSRP, but I seem to get a small discount probably because of the amount of business I've done with them. I love to hang out there, and have tipped the mechanics in the past. I don't expect special service but really feel like I've gotten it, and I appreciate it.
There is another shop nearby (landis). They are probably a decent shop, I've heard the mechanics are pretty good. The shop doesn't feel right, it's huge...it's just too retail. Prices are always above MSRP usually 10% or more, at least on accessories. They have almost "shop" type parts. I only go there for the few things I can't get anywhere else, like an electra cruiser for my daughter.
An then there is Performance bike (the anti-christ of LBS's). They have a huge stock of parts, lots of bikes. It's like the sears of bike stores. Because I drive by it on the way home, they have parts like cranksets in stock, and take price matches.. I frequently by mid priced parts there, but I will never buy another bike there. The mechanics generally aren't very good, most of the sales staff hate their jobs and dream of being real estate agents. But they have a massive apparel selection including all the major brands. You can stop in at 7:00 pm the night before a race and get just about anything you need, but you better know exactly what you want.
In a way these three shops represent the middle ground, the Nemun Marcus (w/o customer service), and the walmart of bike shops. I go to all of them for different reasons, but SoMo gets most of my large purchases. Performance (formerly supergo) I get chains, cranksets, and $150 shoes on clearance for $40. Landis gets very little of my business, they are over-priced and under-performing. The local roadies seem to love them
Ocassionally when I need a lot of parts I order from Jenson or Pricepoint, but that's a different story.
I love this, I see the Same cracp in Automotive Everyday, On my offdays i work at Redlands Cycelry and i see Exactly what you described, Man i Sooo wanna wear my Shirt That reads"" You can Either Agree with me, or be wrong""" when i am there.
There is the thing to to right there, Point out that shipping is going to match or even raise the price. Great seller there, Also remember that the MO companies Buy out OEM stuff, not always teh same quality as what you have on your shelf.
Unfortunatly that is Poor markup, Bikes themselves are low profit, Most other items are keystoned, meaning you pay twice what the shop does, Much better profit
Its actually not that hard to order a Single bike from a Brand you dont normally carry, First step usually, like with Trek/Giant/KHS for Example, is to Call your Nearest Dealer and ask if they are ok with you selling a Single bike.....From there Call whomever your ordering from, let them knopw you talked to So and So shop and there cool with it, and who you talked to, Pay money, And wait for shipping. Most places wont go that far in the time needed to do all that, But if you have a return customer who does spend money with you on a normal basis, then it may be worth your time
What happens if the Trek/Giant dealer is a half block away from your shop? Will they be glad to help their direct competition?
I was a Trek dealer for about 10 years [also Specialized, Giant, Cannondale, Rocky Mountain, etc boutique].
They absolutely would not ship to a non-dealer. Period.
And imagine a competitor cheerfully sending a sale to the enemy. Nope. Never saw it.
If that shop just down the road says you cant sell it, then your not getting shipped, If they are ok with it, youll get your single, Oh BTW i work for a Trek/Giant/Specialized Dealer. And i have sold a couple KHS's same way, KHS dealer is about four blocks up the road, But he was cool with me selling a single or two. We have also Allowed him a few as well
I used to be very open with other dealers in the town where I lived, but the one dealer that was nearly direct 1-to-1 competition for us was a total burke and that option was always negated between us.
As you say, if it's a cool dealer, then good things can happen. Most of the time, when we got something for someone at another shop, it was delivered to us [required by some 'agreements'] and the owner or manager of the other shop would swing by and pick it up. We'd shoot the breeze for a while, everyone was happy.
That was usually a special occasion, the other shop had a personal connection to the buyer [friend of the owner, employee, etc]
Absolutly, I personally would have reminded him how much shipping is with stuff like that, Showing him that the price difference has to be covered somehow. I mean really, do you want the guy who expects you to drop your price to match Mail order as a customer???? Not me, Specially if they are already short enough in the head to forget about shipping costs.