Just wondering if there is something else I should be considering for a coil shock?
Thanks for any advice here.
Thanks for any advice here.
Should I consider something else other than the Fox 2021 DHX2 shock?
- Thread starter Dh builder
- Start date
a used RC4
maybe the rockshox vivid coil or air I own and am going to talk you into buying
what bike?
maybe the rockshox vivid coil or air I own and am going to talk you into buying
what bike?
Twin tubes are dumb on dirt, the 2021 is a partial admissiom of that............
Perhaps look to an ext storia or arma, or an avalanche.
Large bodys small shafts, proper hsc system.
Done.
Perhaps look to an ext storia or arma, or an avalanche.
Large bodys small shafts, proper hsc system.
Done.
The 2021 X2, Ohlins or EXT are my votes. Shim tuning can make a lot of shocks feel very nice.
Sometimes you can get an RC4 in there depending on the frame and the compromise.
Sometimes you can get an RC4 in there depending on the frame and the compromise.
I noticed you have Ohlins on one of your Scotts. Any flaws or complaints? Do you ever find yourself wanting more HSC adj than the 3-4 presets?
I'm stuck with a 8.75x2.75 shock for the dh bike. Doesn't look like Fox is going to release the '21 DHX2 in my dumb size.
I'm still very interested in the EXT, but in no huge rush to pull the trigger.
I had a TTX22M on a Spesh Enduro EVO that I dug. Good traction and small bump compliance and handled big hits well. No complaints. Only having three high speed compression settings wasn't a problem, the three that were there were very useable and decreased futzing around tuning time.
I thought Fox makes the best suspension, why does nobody seem to think it is a good choice?
If I compare the EXT Arma and the Fox DHX2, you get more control with the high speed rebound which the EXT does not have. Why is the EXT better?
If I compare the EXT Arma and the Fox DHX2, you get more control with the high speed rebound which the EXT does not have. Why is the EXT better?
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Because they don't. They make stuff so they can mass-produce it and sell it to OEM manufacturers. The 2020 and before X2 is a great example of this, because it has a wide range of adjustment, it doesn't need as many modifications to work on many bikes, so they can cut down their cost. It's a pretty shitty damper overall, but it's more adaptable, so it makes more economical sense than having to do more tunes of something like an RC4, which is a better shock. Don't misinterpret this to say that if the X2 is "adjusted for" a bike than it's going to be good. It just means it'll be the best it can be on that bike.
A long time ago, they made some decent stuff compared to what was offered. In some small areas, they still do, but they also tend to not give much of a shit and put out some real terrible stuff. Long ago, they made the vanilla forks with R, RL and RLC adjustments, where the damper was basically the same, it was open bath, and except for their shitty seals where they denied they needed actual high-pressure seals like Marz, it was a decent fork. They gained a lot of cred because they didn't "cheapen out" the internals of the fork for the lower-adjustment models.
Then as they broke into the OEM market, that changed. They released the "evolution" series of forks and shocks. These had orifice dampers and were horrible jackhammers. The rear shock had no high speed rebound circuit. Opening these up it was aparrent they had "sold their soul" to the OEM market.
So fast forward a bit and some of their tunes, porting, stacks and so on, are just wildly inappropriate for the application. They are most definitely what is wrong with the industry, continually trying to "reinvent" suspension, rather than concentrating on actually making it better. RC4 starts to work pretty good when they ditch the ridiculous boost valve... It's more about advertising a new product every two years...
Most people here haven't even ridden an EXT just fyi. they're just going on a more sound design for a wider range of applications.
DHX2s can work fine on the right bike. Not so much on others. So again......what bike are you putting this on?
My bike is kind of custom built bike so I can't really say what type I have. It uses a 10.5x3.5" shock and has a heavier rear wheel than normal.
Do you guys know how important the high speed rebound adjustment is because the EXT does not have this?
Do you guys know how important the high speed rebound adjustment is because the EXT does not have this?
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truly custom like one-off? how about posting some pictures? we like homemade bikes around here.
High speed rebound isn't a thing with the EXT because the design inherently covers it. That's why the dhx2 sucks dick on some frames (like mine, a v10). Fox thought it was cool enough to let you think you can adjust it while virtually eliminating the meaningful damping pressure range for the sake of a shiny adjuster. The FOX dhx2 HS rebound gets horribly overwhelmed on a lot of frames.
If you don't know what the leverage curve is on that bike, just play it safe and get something that's not a dhx2. Literally any other shock than a dhx2.
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To expand upon what JM is saying, the reason that the X2 sucks is the mechanism which gains the externally adjustable high speed in Fox's execution of 2020 and older X2 shocks cripples the compression damping system. Any good shock design has adjustable HSR it's just that you have to take it apart and add or remove shims to adjust it. Once this is matched to the spring it's not something you need to be adjusting anyway. It's certainly not a trade-off I'd be willing to take a complete crap compression damping curve for. fox in doing this reduces the variety of shocks they need to sell by 3, no more selling a shock with a soft medium and firm rebound tune that's good for them but bad for us
I love those shocks on the Ransom. However, It all depends on the tune of the shock and the lev rate of the frame. When the shim tune is right then yes, I have good useable range. The tune on the ones with the special neck for the SCOTT are really good.
Anyways, I think all these shocks are just chassis and if the tune is off then you are pushed into a corner and external adjustment only does so much.
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You (along with englert and _Jm) are applying experience with the previous-gen X2 to one significantly different, which you haven't owned. OP asked about the new 2021 shock, only a fool would think he's considering the old X2 as an alternative.
This is the first time Fox has done substantial development work (themselves) on a coil shock since the RC4.
I'd like to try one, I've heard good things, I'll reserve judgement until I've ridden it in my own frame.
Nobody who has told you it is a "bad choice" has actually owned or ridden the new 2021 shock.
I recommend you send buckoW a PM if you want experience from someone who owns it.
Read the thread again. I wasn't conveniently interchanging the two. He asked about a DHX2, so that's when I talked about it.
Maybe they should have called the new one a dhx3
Ditto.
You threw a fit about people mentioning OTHER OPTIONS worth considering so people mentioned RC4s etc. Which is exactly what the OP asked for.
Nope, I just pointed out that comparing the completely redesigned 2021 X2 chassis to the previous-gen X2 is absurd.
Some responses to this thread are bordering on misinformation (given the 2021 shock the OP asked about) which is why I replied.
Read your own post #14. You literally responded to his question about HSR with commentary on the previous-gen X2 in your frame as justification on why not to get one. You told him not to buy the new shock based on your experience with the old one.
No problem with any other recommendations, especially the RC4.
I honestly thought that's what he was asking about 
Like I said, DHX3
Imma make some stickers.
Like I said, DHX3
Imma make some stickers.
2.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 would have been even lighter.
0.0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 weighs more than 0.0
duh
duh
And 5th Element.
I remember testing an DHX 5.0 coil, DHX 5.0 air and RP3 on my 6pack. The DHX air was terrible, it'd blow through travel like crazy. If you were in the parking lot going over cracks in the pavement, you'd think "wow, this is so plush, I should get this!", then it uses 90% of travel all the time and feels like crap. The RP3 could either be set up with 3" of sag so it would use full travel, or less sag and it'd never come close. Any way you worked it, you got about 3" of positive travel, was way too progressive. Later tried an RP23 and that was similarly bad, even in more open modes it liked to buck you on a bump first, before it decided it should maybe be absorbing it, magnified on the higher settings. Then out of all of those there was the DHX 5.0 Coil. It wasn't spectacular by any means, but it was at least somewhat consistent. Spiky at high speed, but it at least used it's travel fairly efficiently, didn't ramp up to something crazy. A fox vanilla or RC of the same or just-before era was ok, but the low speed control back then was very poor and the adjusters just made those shocks harsher. Fox's idea with the DHX AFAICR was to "decouple" the SPV function in that style of damper...it didn't quite work in practice. More industry dipshittery trying to reinvent suspension when it's already there for the taking (motorcross).
remember the boxxer L-Turn?Now talk about boxxers
thankfully no. (again).I remember it existing. But do you remember JM's epic boxxer rants?
Back to the DHX2 debate;
No, I have not ridden the 2021 version. But there are pics of it to discuss and compare.
New one appears to have bigger shaft, still twintube(?), and now has a massive bottom out bumper.
That bumper length alone is a red flag. It covers damn near 1/2 the stroke, are elastomers rad again?
No, I have not ridden the 2021 version. But there are pics of it to discuss and compare.
New one appears to have bigger shaft, still twintube(?), and now has a massive bottom out bumper.
That bumper length alone is a red flag. It covers damn near 1/2 the stroke, are elastomers rad again?
the dxh3 has a completely redesigned rebound setup. That's what's likely going to make it better.
maybe
has a completely redesigned rebound setup. That's what's likely going to make it better. maybe
It better with that massive bumper pushing back!
The shaft is bigger because they're back to running shimmed rebound on the main piston, so there's oil flow through the shaft. Should be an improvement if they implemented it reasonably well.
I haven't squeezed one yet but I'd bet a lot that the bumper is way softer than the old one. Getting hung up on "but it looks too big" is dumb without comparing durometer.
I haven't squeezed one yet but I'd bet a lot that the bumper is way softer than the old one. Getting hung up on "but it looks too big" is dumb without comparing durometer.
I don't see bumpers being a red flag at all. They've been used for high end MTB shocks (11-6, probably others) and motor sports to good effect for some time. The elastomer comparison is pretty irrelevant.
I've ridden both of those shocks, back to back, on the same bike (GG Gnarvana). Caveat: the kinematics don't rely on a damper to fix anything, so the MY20 DHX2 works well to begin with. The MY21 version is better, though. There is less of a tradeoff between stability and harshness in the damper, and the climb switch is noticeably stiffer, yet has a smaller detriment to descending performance when you forget to turn it off.