[Motionboy2]

My feelings on this are mixed. I can see both sides. All in all however I feel that if you were born a man you should be classified as one on the race scene. What other sporting events allow a man who has been surgically changed into a woman compete in competition as a woman? Especially at the professional level.
As for the Virginia slims model being a man, I couldn't find proof of that using google, but on the other hand WHO CARES? It isn't like she is competing to be the fastest in her sport in the world! I did a search for "transgender athlete" and the only hits that came back were for the Sydney Gay Games. The athletes were competing in both male and female events!

I don't feel that it is right to put any person in a position where they can claim a world champion title and they have a clear advantage, whether it be performance enhansing drugs, cheating or even starting your life as a man and competing as a woman. Why don't we compair her times with those that she/he got before the surgery! Are they different, faster, slower? Or if you take the time that she is getting now and compair it to the class that she used to race where would she stand?

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by stiksandstones
I think if this person is going to race their bike, then they need to find a group that puts on races for people of that gender. Until the UCI, Canada Cup, NCS, etc gets a he/she class its a no brainer. There is a rumor going around the circuit that this trans-whatever threatened a lawsuit if they were not allowed to race-so they caved in and allowed it...does anyone know if this is true?

Stikman
www.stiksandstones.com
www.dirtmag.co.uk

Well you would find out before me

If she threatened with a lawsuit...... man, I can just see the court case now.....

What is she descriminated for? Racing in a class she/he doesn't exactly fit into? She/he can race in the mens class 'cuase that is what he/she is...for the most part. He/she has a better chance of doing well with the ladies(generally) so that is what he/she is trying to do. I am not saying he/she did it to race the female class, but since he/she is now there.....*shrug*

Granted I am no scientist, well studied on the subject, but I doubt even he/she can qualify as being an expert. People will believe what they hope to be true....if someone says he/she is as much a female as a natural born female...than that is what they are going to believe.

He/she is a HE. Non-present body parts, hormones and all. Maybe a dissadvantaged HE but a HE nonetheless.

Rhino

 

[CRUM]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA
Maybe a dissadvantaged HE but a HE nonetheless.

Rhino

My wife just happened to be looking over my shoulder when I punched your response up. She got her hackles up with this statement. She is making me type this. Ouch, cut it out! She thinks you should have said, "Maybe a disadvantaged SHE because HE wasn't born a SHE. And because she is monitoring me closely, I have to agree. Ouch! Okay, okay, I agree cuz I want to. Is that better?

 

[Motionboy2]

Originally posted by CRUM
My wife just happened to be looking over my shoulder when I punched your response up. She got her hackles up with this statement. She is making me type this. Ouch, cut it out! She thinks you should have said, "Maybe a disadvantaged SHE because HE wasn't born a SHE. And because she is monitoring me closely, I have to agree. Ouch! Okay, okay, I agree cuz I want to. Is that better?

Ok send your wife away for a moment

I actually agree with both statements but they are refering to different things.

Rhino is saying advantaged physically because of male build/muscle etc.
I take it that you/she meen Disadvantaged more socially and psyclogically because she/he has to be put through the considerable amount of pain and discrimination in order to go through this transformation.

You are both right IMO, just different.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Originally posted by CRUM
My wife just happened to be looking over my shoulder when I punched your response up. She got her hackles up with this statement. She is making me type this. Ouch, cut it out! She thinks you should have said, "Maybe a disadvantaged SHE because HE wasn't born a SHE. And because she is monitoring me closely, I have to agree. Ouch! Okay, okay, I agree cuz I want to. Is that better?

Yes like MotionBoy2 said......I am talking physically/sports/MTB racing wise..

CRUM you crack me up. Not to get you introuble or anything, but,

HE is still a HE, less the equipment and 'mones. He has the odds against him competing in the male class....horemones and all. But HE is at an advantage in the female class....in reality he is a dude in sheeps clothing.

Again this is in regard to sports/DH racing, not whether they have the right to do/live in society one way or the other.

 

[Scurry]

no, why should this even be an issue?

 

[CRUM]

Originally posted by RhinofromWA


....in reality he is a dude in sheeps clothing.

I woulda said "in reality HE is a dude in SHE clothing". No, that would make herm just a transvestite. I know, how about "A Rose by any other name might be Bill". No, doesn't quite make it either. Hmm. Let's see.... "I am she as you are she and we are she together". No. Too general. And besides I can't be a she cuz I'm a he, so we could never be she together. Oh well. I give up.

 

[X-rider]

Asolutely, positively, unequivocaly... NO!!!

 

[Avy Rider]

I think this whole situation is NUTS! (No pun intended!!!)

If you're born a guy...you're a GUY!!!
If you're an effeminate guy....fine...but you're still a GUY!!!
If you're a gay guy...your choice...but you're still a GUY!!!
If you decide to chop off Cap'n Winkie and take hormones...

...You're stilll a GUY dammit!!!

I feel bad for the REAL female athletes that DESERVE those wins!

 

[dirtpaws]

what's the big deal?

it's already been done, summer olympics of 1976 in mexico.

two words: BRUCE JENNER

 

[dirtpaws]

speaking of bruce jenner...

a picture is worth a thousand words.

just kidding ol' brucie.

 

[phillyvanilly]

Anyone see the south park episode last week where cartman pretends to be retarded so he can win the special olympics? For some reason this reminded me of it.

 

[Tully]

Absolutely not. Even though hormones may alter a man's musculature, it still isn't fair. Men are still bigger and have more natural aggression than women. As someone said earlier in this thread, Michelle Dumaresq (did I spell that right) is huge for a women, and able to flick around a V10. Plus, Michelle has the riding skills of a man.

 

[HippieKai]

Originally posted by phillyvanilly
Anyone see the south park episode last week where cartman pretends to be retarded so he can win the special olympics? For some reason this reminded me of it.

yeah i get the same vibe!

 

[phillyvanilly]

currently, one as far as I know.

 

[Msisle Dad]

Philly are u telling me something?

not that there is anything wrong with that

CR

 

[freeriding101]

i think we should just make a third group men women and trannies... no just kidding. some ppl are born with both tools and its just easier for the doctor to cut off its taliwacker than to sew up it vagina. so even though they have a vagina they have male hormones. i think if the ppl are confused about which races to join they need to figure out what cromosones they have, not look down there pants.

 

[WestCoastHucker]

 

[Capt. Jack Sparrow]

I had a dream last week that I had become a pro racer (good part) and ended up racing against her (bad part.) I think I woke up screaming.

Since there probably won't be transgender races anytime soon, yeah, she really should have thought about the fact that she might not be able to race competitively anymore if she got the surgery.

 

[genpowell71]

I dont care how much estrogen you take, you still have male muscle structure. If they want to compete, then why not let the women start using roids? Then we'll have to start letting the men use, because they will sue so they can use. Where will it stop?

 

[RhinofromWA]

Why can't they just compete in thier original class? I guess gals-to-guys would have testostorones flowing.....I think that would be illegal. If no hormonal therapy I guess they could get altered and compete with the other ladies if no hormonal therapy was taken.

If guys-to-gals compete, why not run the mens class? A dissadvantage you say? Maybe then running with women would be a slight advantage?....even if it didn't help out in the end. (just typing random thoughts on the subject)

At some point should there even be a male or female class? How would women feel about this?

If you decide to have an operation to alter your sex than why should you automatically get to run with others of like your "new" physical self?

Rhino

 

[flatulant_man]

In everything but physical activity, I think transgenders have every right to express themselves. however, if a man thinks he's a woman, he still has the muscles and balls of a man, and is able to compete at a higher level than a women

 

[Bluebuddha30]

Well people we need to remember that, this is a new issue for us and needto think about this and look at the research, this a medical issue not a social one. Let us leave social, political, religous views out of our sport.
I think that maybe we need a new transgendered sub-class for some events if there are enough to justify it, if not well, Our women swam agaist the East German Women didn't they??

 

[roiyial]

i think it depends on what size you are...if you small enough to fit in a crowd of chiks...you should be able to compeet against them

 

[aussiedude]

I say Yes

 

[RhinofromWA]

There is an article in a recent issue of Outdoor magazine or something regarding the transgender/female/male person up in BC. I didn't get to read most of it as I was waiting for my Beef Phad Thai to go to be ready. But it hashed out much of what we are discussing here.

GO to your local library they might have it also.

 

[KleinMp99]

Michelle says:

"And people do all the time. I will defend myself until I can't talk anymore that I don't have an advantage. If I did, I wouldn't race. I would quit."

"If I thought I had an advantage, I would quit..."


Hmm.....I wonder why "she" hasnt quit yet??

 

[GoRoRo]

Its unfortunate b/c regardless of what class "she" races in she is going to get sh*t for it. As I competitive female, I would be annoyed to race against her and lose...but that would just give me more drive to train harder so I could beat a "guy?". You see it is a screwed situation either way.

 

[RhinofromWA]

Its unfortunate b/c regardless of what class "she" races in she is going to get sh*t for it. As I competitive female, I would be annoyed to race against her and lose...but that would just give me more drive to train harder so I could beat a "guy?". You see it is a screwed situation either way.

Why does she race against genetic ladies? neaky:

I think he/she is on the center of the podium but dang! he/she is big compared to her competitors.

 

[Lexx D]

Her size looks like it would give an advantage. She/HE's huge! I really don't think she should be allowed to race with the ladies. She is not female, I don't have a problem with peoples decisions but she's the size of a guy.

 

[bella]

Im currently a road rider primarily but trying to get into some mtn biking, but being barely 5 ft i dont think id like racing against her regaurdless of it being road or mtn.

 

[stupidbikerkid]

i dont think they should be able to. men and women have two totally different riding styles. women do go slower and men go faster it has been proven. women are very good but the just go slower so i dont think it is fair

 

[Acadian]

http://www.nsmb.com/shore_news/dumaresq_title.php

 

[nydave]

Get real, Mike still looks like a guy. What's a matter? Couldn't win as a dude... oh no. I'll just take hormones so I sound like a girl...now I'm a winner...woopee!!! Say what you want, bottom line is real women are getting screwed...period. No, no, no.

 

[Heath Sherratt]

Yeah, she's a man baby

 

[sanjuro]

Since Heath brought this thread back up,

The choice to support or not support Michelle Dumaresq certainly involves people feelings towards transgendered people. There is a lot of negative feelings towards transsexuals, and I think it takes a very open minded person to be accepting.

I admire Michelle's determination to race, despite enormous pressure against her. I also respect her decision to have a sex change.

However, I cannot say I support her right to race, however. I feel she does have advantages over her female racers, no different than if one of them took male hormone therapy.

I respect her as a person, but I do not support her right to race.

 

[Heath Sherratt]

what he said.

 

[Heath Sherratt]

however,

 

[Angus]

I am not bothered be someone wanting to be something different, but in the end they are still pretending, yeah the costume is elaborate (and permanment)
but it is still a disguise of who God made them to be. We all wear disguises at different times in our lives, they make us feel different and sometimes special.

But as to a Transgender female competing I am against it because deep down they are still a male, yeah they have hormone changes and such but the basic genetic structure is still the Y Chromosone, I feel that this is unair to all natural born woman. I feel this advantage is equal or worse than a competitor using steriods.


in conclusion to my rant, If your a man and you want to have sex as a woman, live like a woman, go ahead be my guest be a woman.
If you want to race....Be a Man.

 

[sunnerbeanmtb]

Ive fought long and hard to get my speed, strength, and power up to be in comparision to guys. I am good at what I play when being compared to females. It would not be fair to add males into female competitions. That leaves the window open for any male to put on a wig and skirt and compete.