[dhbuilder]

There is one huge difference!

Is the Israelis don't attack the Palistinians unless provoked.

The arabs on the other hand are continually attacking Israel with terrorism and with conventional weapons.

Why should the world condem Israel for defending against her attackers?

i personally don't condem them for bombin the everlovin daylights out of whoever messes with them.
but they've been a major aggravation to the region ever since they were set up there at the end of WWII.
they're surrounded by pure hate and evil. and are a focal point of that hate.
and we're hated because of our support for them. but we can hang them out to dry.

nothing over there makes sense.
the term political tightrope doesn't even come close.

 

[SDH]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War#Main_reasons_for_the_war

 

[Secret Squirrel]

i personally don't condem them for bombin the everlovin daylights out of whoever messes with them.
but they've been a major aggravation to the region ever since they were set up there at the end of WWII.
they're surrounded by pure hate and evil. and are a focal point of that hate.
and we're hated because of our support for them. but we can hang them out to dry.

nothing over there makes sense.
the term political tightrope doesn't even come close.

Political Dental Floss would be more apt....

On the other hand, I really don't want to see any of the Lebanese government chica's in anything resembling a bikini...

 

[rockwool]

no its not.
in a regular army there is a somewhat established chain of command, where there if a face for accountability and so on.

in a guerilla you are bound to get the "wasn´t me" card a lot. that makes for more "innecesary" damage in the long term.
and dont tell me "guerrillas" are effective tactics to "win". for the most part, they just prolong the defeat of whoever resorts to them, killing more people in the meanwhile.

In theory maybe, but that don't work out all to well in reallity. Look at all the junta's in latin america where they've been given immunity and God knows what not.
Same thing with Greece after IIWW where the ones who were collaborating with the nazi's side just changed masters to the brittish when zie germans retireted. Churchill ordered in 1945 brittish paratroopers and greek ex nazis to shoot in at a civillian crowd demonstrating against the brittish neo colonization of Greece. A major scandal world wide but no one was blamed or trialed.

Guerilla tactics are super effective, the nazis only controled the cities in the balkans, outside it was partizan teritory. Brought the whole Italin invading force to capitulate, including the Pinerollo Commando Division.
Standing up for your rights will cost you and others something. Accepting another invading force or the injust systems that rule in some countries will cost a lot too. You don't live just because you breath, there are abstract things that make life worth living that are more important.

 

[rockwool]

Did you justify the torture and the kidnappings?

It is important to separate right from wrong regardless of the situation. Even during the occupation of Lebanon by Israeli forces if Hezbollah employ such tactics as kidnapping & killing the citizens of other nations (and hence non-combatants in any sense) then they are clearly utilising terrorist tactics. That makes them terrorists.

None of which justifies, or is justified by, any other questionable actions by any other parties.

Yes, wrong is always wrong but there is big nono's and small nono's. Occupation is terrorism, just in a much bigger scale. You have to worry about the moscitos later when you have a Tyranosaurus Rex on you ass...

 

[rockwool]

except theres a huge difference between shooting at army regulars and blowing up a car in a crowded city street full of civillians

Blowing up (israeli) civillians in busses just show how desperate and how unjust the cituation is for the palestinians.
I bet they would love to have exactly the same weapons that the isrealis have; F-16's, gunships, tanks, the logistics and intelligence to run it all. But they don't.

If someone invaded your country what would you do? Continue the game on your playstation or grab that hayfork you keep in your garage and go out and do your part, even though you know, if caught, you're gonna be trialed as a terrorist for not wearing a uniform?

 

[rockwool]

So if Norway got its' collective panties in a bunch and started ambushing your guerilla units, that would be just like an occupying force, using proper ROE's and following the GC, getting picked off??......wow....just wow....

Dunno what you mean by this. Can you say it in another way?

 

[rockwool]

there never was a 'palestinian' state... and the other 3 countries lost their territory after attacking Israel in the 1960's and lost.

Sure there is. The Gaza strip, the West Bank and Eastern Jerusalem make out the state of Palestine today.
In 1948 the state of Israel was made by carving out 67% of the most fertile land of Palestine.

Nice sharing... Done by two swedes, both jews... NOt too just, fair and all dat shlt is it?

 

[LordOpie]

In 1948 the state of Israel was made by carving out 67% of the most fertile land of Palestine.

please read this...

that number is completely false. Israel was carved out of the Ottoman Empire who lost the war to Britain and France. As with all wars, winner gets to decide what happens. Combine Israel and Jordan and that's most of the land occupied by the Ottomans.

Look at a map and see how much land was given to Jordan versus Israel.

Also consider that France and UK gave away land! I'm not sure they've ever done that before. They usually KEEP it.

So, before you hate Israel for a situation they didn't make, consider the bigger picture... like there wasn't a Palestine, like Jordan and the rest of the Arab World forced some and encouraged other Islamic-Arabs (as opposed to Jewish-Arabs) to stay and be a thorn in Isreal's side.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Silver]

What are these asshats fighting over again? I'm sure it was worth if for the Israeli woman who got vaporized while sipping coffee on her balcony, or the Lebanese family who had like 12 people dead.

I saw Bush trying to talk tough to Syria on teevee...I wonder if Toshi would be willing to guess what they have him on. He seemed more dopey than usual, and he didn't snicker once.

 

[DRB]

Standing up for your rights will cost you and others something. Accepting another invading force or the injust systems that rule in some countries will cost a lot too. You don't live just because you breath, there are abstract things that make life worth living that are more important.

Fine but you live with the consequences of your actions. And in this case the consequences are the fury of the IDF on your doorstep.

 

[Changleen]

Why do you think that?

Sorry I'd had 12 shots of vodka when I posted that, don't know what the fvck I was thinking to be honest. I was quite suprised to see I'd already posted in this thread.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

ahmadinejad has said if israel touches syria it would be an attack on the "whole islamic world" a "fierce response" will come...

 

[N8 v2.0]

ahmadinejad has said if israel touches syria it would be an attack on the "whole islamic world" a "fierce response" will come...

oh man... that sounds scarey.... NOT!!!

 

[Secret Squirrel]

oh man... that sounds scarey.... NOT!!!

Unfortunately, Syria is no longer in 1967 .....it won't end in 6 days in favor of the Israelites.....

 

[Mackie]

So now Isreal is bombing Palestine and Lebanon. I guarantee you that Palestine and Lebanon are not going to just sit there and take it up the ass. How long before this escalates to a nuclear war?

"Someday a real rain will come and wash all this scum off the streets".

Yeah, they are heading for something big. The least compasionate part of me hopes for something huge, some nuclear reset button that wipes the slate clean and makes everyone so ready to kill one another over there realize just how crazy the whole thing is.

Religion as a political agenda scares the crap out of me.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

"Someday a real rain will come and wash all this scum off the streets".

love that movie.
reputation for the quote. 10 points for style and execution.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

oh man... that sounds scarey.... NOT!!!

well, if iran gets tangled, that **** would really hit the fan....

the US is in the iraq quagmire, virtually no public support for bush to drag into another war so easily... so it would probably be israel on its own for a while...

 

[formermtboarder]

Hezbollah has killed 8 Israeli soldiers and captured 2, and killed 1 Israeli civilian

My girlfriend is in Israel right now, she was an hour from where that happened. 7 Israeli soldiers dead, 2 captured, 3 civilians killed.

Im trying to convince her to come home. Im very worried this will escalate, do you all think it will?

 

[noname]

there's no thinking about it.

 

[formermtboarder]

there's no thinking about it.

??????

 

[fluff]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War#Main_reasons_for_the_war

Appropos of?

 

[fluff]

there never was a 'palestinian' state... and the other 3 countries lost their territory after attacking Israel in the 1960's and lost.

Who said anything about a state? The territory occupied by Israel has not been a state for a long time according to that criteria, and Israel is only one by dint of superior military force.

And when exactly did The Lebanon attack Israel in the 1960s?

Nice one-liners N8, but a little short on substance.

 

[fluff]

Sorry I'd had 12 shots of vodka when I posted that, don't know what the fvck I was thinking to be honest. I was quite suprised to see I'd already posted in this thread.

Ah, the wonders of alcohol.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Who said anything about a state? The territory occupied by Israel has not been a state for a long time according to that criteria, and Israel is only one by dint of superior military force.

And when exactly did The Lebanon attack Israel in the 1960s?

Nice one-liners N8, but a little short on substance.

well, there were 3 countries at least., egypt, jordan and iraq.

if am not mistaken iraq had a military alliance with egypt´s nasser....

 

[N8 v2.0]

well, there were 3 countries at least., egypt, jordan and iraq.

if am not mistaken iraq had a military alliance with egypt´s nasser....

Not Iran... its Syria. And Syria controlled a large part of Lebanon and has only pulled their military out of there last year.

See the 6 Days War: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

Not Iran... its Syria. And Syria controlled a large part of Lebanon and has only pulled their military out of there last year.

See the 6 Days War: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

duh!

i was trying so hard to make a connection with a "3rd" country besides the obvious, only thing i remembered was the iraq-egypt alliance, yet, somehow i completely missed the actual 3rd, syria, with golan and the sheba farms...

 

[BuddhaRoadkill]

love that movie.
reputation for the quote. 10 points for style and execution.

Agreed!

 

[fluff]

well, there were 3 countries at least., egypt, jordan and iraq.

if am not mistaken iraq had a military alliance with egypt´s nasser....

But none of them were the Lebanon. You know, the country that Israel is shelling? The one they invaded? The one that has not invaded Israel.

I was trying to ascertain the relevance of N8's remark to this current scenario, beyond the usual smokescreen tactic of course.

 

[DRB]

But none of them were the Lebanon. You know, the country that Israel is shelling? The one they invaded? The one that has not invaded Israel.

I was trying to ascertain the relevance of N8's remark to this current scenario, beyond the usual smokescreen tactic of course.

Where are the shells and rockets coming from? Where did the "freedom fighters" that captured the two IDF soldiers come from and where did they return?

 

[N8 v2.0]

But none of them were the Lebanon. You know, the country that Israel is shelling? The one they invaded? The one that has not invaded Israel.

I was trying to ascertain the relevance of N8's remark to this current scenario, beyond the usual smokescreen tactic of course.

Syrian/Iranian backed terror group, Hezbollah, occupies a good chunk of southern Lebanon.. they launched 150 rockets into Israel, broke thru the border and captured 2 of Israel's soldiers... now Israel is attacking their headquarters, arms depots and strongholds.

So what...

 

[DRB]

Unfortunately, Syria is no longer in 1967 .....it won't end in 6 days in favor of the Israelites.....

Neither is Israel.

 

[ALEXIS_DH]

But none of them were the Lebanon. You know, the country that Israel is shelling? The one they invaded? The one that has not invaded Israel.

I was trying to ascertain the relevance of N8's remark to this current scenario, beyond the usual smokescreen tactic of course.

hezbollah has pretty much a carte blanche in lebanon.
it holds 2 ministerial seat, and about 20% of the congress...

its definately not an irrelevant actor in the lebanese scene...

 

[fluff]

Syrian/Iranian backed terror group, Hezbollah, occupies a good chunk of southern Lebanon.. they launched 150 rockets into Israel, broke thru the border and captured 2 of Israel's soldiers... not Israel is attacking their headquarters and strongholds.

So what...

What, you mean broke thru the "border" into Syrian territory occupied by Israel?

 

[fluff]

Where are the shells and rockets coming from? Where did the "freedom fighters" that captured the two IDF soldiers come from and where did they return?

I don't believe it was Beirut. Which is being shelled by Israel. But considering we were talking about the relevance of the Six Day War to Lebanon is completely irrelevant.

 

[fluff]

hezbollah has pretty much a carte blanche in lebanon.
it holds 2 ministerial seat, and about 20% of the congress...

its definately not an irrelevant actor in the lebanese scene...

Agreed. But again, that is not the Six Day War, which is what N8 was referring to.

 

[N8 v2.0]

Who said anything about a state? The territory occupied by Israel has not been a state for a long time according to that criteria, and Israel is only one by dint of superior military force.

Most of the blame for the current situation falls squarely on the shoulders of Syria and Jordan. These countries kept the Palistinians as refugees.. foring them to live in camps and not allowing them into their populations. Consider it Arabian 'brotherly love'...

Jus think how vastly better off the Palistinians would be today if they had gone along with the Israelies and assimulated into their society. Israel is the economic power house and has one of the higher standard of living in that region... not to mention it is a hell of a lot more democratic than the arab kingdoms which surround it.

 

[N8 v2.0]

What, you mean broke thru the "border" into Syrian territory occupied by Israel?

Sure.. if that makes you feel better, changleen...

 

[fluff]

Most of the blame for the current situation falls squarely on the shoulders of Syria and Jordan. These countries kept the Palistinians as refugees.. foring them to live in camps and not allowing them into their populations. Consider it Arabian 'brotherly love'...

Jus think how vastly better off the Palistinians would be today if they had gone along with the Israelies and assimulated into their society. Israel is the economic power house and has one of the higher standard of living in that region... not to mention it is a hell of a lot more democratic than the arab kingdoms which surround it.

Well, isn't that a question you should address to the Palestinians? Perhaps you could even research the reasons for the mass exodus of Arabs from Palestine (sorry, the bit of the middle east now called Israel)? It's called Ethnic Cleansing in modern day terms.

 

[fluff]

Sure.. if that makes you feel better, changleen...

Oh boy, you got me there... At least you didn't call me N8.

Actually I do enjoy reality more than your little fantasy world.

Edit: Seriously N8. I'd like to know, what is your problem with that post?

Here's a picture for you: