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Show me the money! or How I learned to speak French and love Iraqi cuisine

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
I dunno it if is "about the oil", but I do know that it's about the money. No, not for us, for them.

Hussein signed contracts with (gasp, say it aint so?) France, Germany, Russia, and China that will allow those countries exclusive rights to iraqi oil once the embargo against Iraq is lifted.

Oooooh I get it. So if Hussein is taken out of power those contracts are null and void. No wonder they don't support enforcing the UN resolution that they once voted for.

Of course, our hands aren't clean in this affair either as there are a few major UK and US oil corporations vying for similar access and courting various would be replacements for Hussein.

Dirty business this is, but I still think it needs to be done. The WMD and terror ties are too strong.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/DK01Ak02.html

more..

As of October 2002, Iraq reportedly had signed several multi-billion dollar deals with foreign oil companies mainly from Russia, France and China.

Deutsche bank estimates US$38 billion total on new fields - 'greenfield' development - with potential production capacity of 4.7 million barrels per day if all the deals come to fruition.

The oil companies reportedly having signed deals with Iraq are none other than Lukoil and Tatneft from Russia, TotalFinaElf from France, China National Petroleum Corp from China, Eni from Italy, Repsol YPF from Spain and other oil companies from Indonesia, Malaysia and a few other countries.

Russia, being owed billions by Iraq for past arms deliveries, could have the strongest interest in Iraqi oil development, including a US$3.5 billion, 23-year-old deal to rehabilitate Iraqi oilfields, particularly the 11-15 billion barrel West Qurna field located west of Basra near the Rumaila field.

However, Iraq was reportedly becoming increasingly frustrated at the failure of these companies to actually begin work on the ground and has threatened to no longer sign deals unless firms agreed to do so without delay. It must also be noted that UN sanctions overwhelmingly have dissuaded these companies from doing so.

Russia's Lukoil signed an agreement with the Iraqi government in 1997 but requested to delay work on West Qurna. Lukoil was restrained from starting work by UN sanctions. When Moscow threw its support for a UN resolution on disarming Iraq, Iraq was furious and scrapped this oil deal. Lukoil's chief executive, Vagit Alekperov, then seeked guarantees from both Moscow and Washington that it would not lose the field to major US oil companies if the US ousted Saddam. News had it later that Lukoil received "guarantees" on this matter from Putin.

In October 2001, another Russian oil company, Slavnet, signed a US$52 million service contract with Iraq on the 2 billion barrel Suba-Luhais field in southern Iraq. Full development of Suba-Luhais could result in production of 100,000 barrel a day at a cost of US$300 million over three years. Last heard of in March 2002, Slavneft reportedly was awaiting approval from the UN to drill 25 wells at Luhais.

France's TotalFinaElf was reported to have signed a deal with Iraq on oil development rights for Majnun, located 30 miles north of Basra on the Iranian border. Majnun oil field is estimated to have oil reserves between 12 to 20 billion barrels. Production as at May 2002 was at 50,000 barrels a day, with output possibly reaching 100,000 barrels a day today. Majnun is considered as Iraq's largest oilfields.

In July 2001, Iraq was also angered by France's perceived support for the US "smart sanctions" plan and Iraq subsequently announced that it would no longer give French companies priority in awarding oil contracts, and would reconsider existing contracts as well.

Iraq also announced that it was inclined to favour Russia, which has been supporting Iraq at the UN Security Council, on awarding rights to Majnun and another large southern oil field, Nahr Umar. This oilfield is expected to have an output of around 440,000 barrels a day but may reach 500,000 barrels a day with more extensive development.

China National Petroleum Corp has a contract to develop the US$700 million Al-Ahdab field, reputedly the largest oil development deal signed in the country after West Qurna. A rapidly industralised China will also need all the oil it can secure for future requirements. Estimates in 1997 had it that China's oil import from the Persian Gulf would grow from 0.5 million barrels per day to 5.5 million barrels per day in 2020. This makes China one of the region's most important customers.

The final large oil field is Halfaya, located in southern Iraq, estimated to have reserves of 2.5 to 4.6 billion barrels. The reported companies showing interest in this Halfaya project are BHP, CNPC and Agip. Halfaya could ultimately yield 200,000 to 300,000 barrels a day in output at a possible cost of US$2 billion.

Smaller fields with under two billion in reserves are also receiving interest from foreign oil companies. These fields include Nasiriya (Eni, Repsol), Tuba (ONGC, Sonatrach, Pertamina), Ratawi (Shell, Petronas, CanOxy), Gharaf (Japex, TPAO), Amara (PetroVietnam), Noor (Syria), and more.

At least 110 prospects has also been identified from previous seismic work in the Western Desert blocs near the Jordanian and Saudi borders. In late 2000, India's onGC was awarded Block 8 and in april 2002, Indonesia's Pertamina signed an exploration contract for Block 3. Other companies reportedly interested in this Western Desert blocs include Petronas, Repsol, Lundin, Sonatrach, MOL, Ranger and TPAO.

In total, Deutsche Bank estimates that international oil companies in Iraq may have signed deals on new or old fields amounting to nearly to billion barrels of reserves, four million barrel a day of potential production, and investment potential of more than US$20 billion.

Thus, the major oil companies with deals in Iraq are French's TotalFinaElf (with estimated reserves of 12.5 to 27 billion barrels), Russia's Lukoil, Zarubezneft and Mashinoimport (with estimated reserves of 7.5 to 15 billion barrels) and China's National Petroleum Company (with estimated reserves of two billion).

Undoubtedly, Iraq's oil industry is in a "lamentable" condition. In 1990, Iraq was capable of pumping 3.5 million barrels of crude a day, down to 2.8 million barrels a day and falling annually by 100,000 barrels. Oil analysts and experts argue that Iraq would need several years and tens of billions of dollars to boost output capacity much above what it was on the eve of Operation Desert Storm.

Any future increase in production would thus depend on the extent of damage from the looming oil war, price of oil and the policies of Iraq's government. Thus, the issue is time.

The next question we should explore: How does the Iraqi government determine future and current oil deals?

A change in regime would undoubtedly pave the way to a change in policies. The incoming Iraqi government could face a giant legal compensation case after the oil war.

If the regime remains, with Saddam Hussein at the helm, the currently signed deals would be honoured. However, the impending oil war is expected to oust Saddam Hussein. It was reported last week that US has already chosen a successor to Saddam Hussein.

Mohamed al-Jabiri said that the White House has given its "blessing" to the head of the Iraqi National Congress, Ahmed Chalabi, to lead a transitional coalition government in Iraq once Saddam has been deposed.

So if there indeed will be a change in regime in Iraq, one can bet that there will be policy changes too. First and foremost, the change in regime, as per the oil factor, the incoming Iraqi government could face giant legal compensation case if the new government cancels all signed agreement under Saddam's regime.

Not to mention the fact that the military industrial complex of all three nations (China, France, Russia) are all heavilly involved in helping to maintain the Iraqi military. A disarmed Iraq is not in their best interest.

France, Russia, and China should know that one is judged by the company one keeps. I think I'll go order me some freedom fries.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
That's some pretty interesting stuff.

I wonder why the white house doesnt call them on it?
 

Jorvik

Monkey
Jan 29, 2002
810
0
I honestly don't know anymore.
Originally posted by BurlySurly
That's some pretty interesting stuff.

I wonder why the white house doesnt call them on it?
I think it is because if Bush goes out and says:

"You are against ousting Saddam because you want the oil!"

Their reaction would be :

"You want to take Saddam out because you want the oil!"

Bush:

"Liar, Liar, pants on fire!"

Them:

"I know you are, but what am I?"

And so on and so forth, albeit using diplomatic speach as opposed to the dialogue of first graders at recess.

While I do not dismiss oil as being one of our reasons for action, I certainly do not perceive it to top our list. I'm starting to believe it tops the list of quite a few other countires, as the above article DT posted suggests.
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
So let me get this straight. The politicians from all countries are lying hypocritical windbags who are hiding their real motives in doublespeak. Wow, who'd have thought;) Of course "ours" are better than "theirs" though.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
The difference is that we are trying to stop a terroist sympathiser and despot who has, has used against his own people, and has vowed to use CBR weapons and make some money at the same time.

They are trying to make some money, and if it means that the despot stays in power so be it, as long as they get their money.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,495
20,293
Sleazattle
Originally posted by valve bouncer
So let me get this straight. The politicians from all countries are lying hypocritical windbags who are hiding their real motives in doublespeak.
:eek: :eek: :eek:
That can't be true! I thought all politicians were honest hardworking people who have the interest if the average good person in mind, you know, like Santa Claus.
:think:
Oh yeah, that's right, he doesn't exist either.

I don't buy any of this crap. I hate all these jerks, Bush, the French and Sadam. We will not know the real story of what is going on hear for years. Hopefully not too many people will suffer because of it.
 

Westy

the teste
Nov 22, 2002
54,495
20,293
Sleazattle
Originally posted by Jorvik
I think it is because if Bush goes out and says:

"You are against ousting Saddam because you want the oil!"

Their reaction would be :

"You want to take Saddam out because you want the oil!"

Bush:

"Liar, Liar, pants on fire!"

Them:

"I know you are, but what am I?"

And so on and so forth, albeit using diplomatic speach as opposed to the dialogue of first graders at recess.

While I do not dismiss oil as being one of our reasons for action, I certainly do not perceive it to top our list. I'm starting to believe it tops the list of quite a few other countires, as the above article DT posted suggests.
You forgot about this one:

Bush: My daddy is bigger than your daddy!

Them: Is not

Bush: Is too
 

valve bouncer

Master Dildoist
Feb 11, 2002
7,843
114
Japan
Originally posted by Damn True


They are trying to make some money, and if it means that the despot stays in power so be it, as long as they get their money.
LOL. I'm sure you even said that with a straight face. Of course the good old USA would never do anything like that now would they. But of course "our" leader's motives are much purer than "theirs" because ....because....because they're ours that's why.
 

Trond

Monkey
Oct 22, 2002
288
0
Oslo, Norway
This information has been debated over and over in Europe, and it is important to point out one thing: Although most people are against an invasion of Iraq, not many of them directly support France, China or Russia. There's a distinction here, at least to me. I am not even close to supporting their viewes when understanding their "real" motives, but I still oppose an invasion of Iraq.

I guess most people are against an invasion simpy because we cannot prove a link from Iraq to terrorist groups, no WMD are found and Iraq has made no direct threats to the US. It's like saying, we shall bomb Country X into the stoneage because they might turn on us in 5 years. Nobody have the right to be that paranoid.

Also, it is quite ironic that the US wants to implement Democracy in Iraq. Doesn't that go against the very idea of democracy?

Trond.
 

Jorvik

Monkey
Jan 29, 2002
810
0
I honestly don't know anymore.
Originally posted by Trond


Also, it is quite ironic that the US wants to implement Democracy in Iraq. Doesn't that go against the very idea of democracy?

Trond.

Not when the leaders of democratic revolutionist movements in Iraq are assasinated on Saddam's orders. Remember after the Gulf war when Bush Sr. told the Iraqi people to rise up against Saddam? We told the people to try to take back their power from Hussein. The movement was crushed by the regime because we didn't provide them with the assistance needed to accomplish this task. As a result, the boldest Iraqi nationalist, anti-Saddam leaders got wiped out. If democracy is going to come to Iraq, the current regime must be destroyed.

These thoughts are terribly disjointed, my apologies, I've got a Physics final due in an hour and am suffering through the worst form of procrastination: furious posting on online message boards.
 

rbx

Monkey
this situation goes beyond oil imo if the u.s government goes above the UN then what why the hell did they created it!!??they send an international message that the u.s is above the law and that the world should go back to countries invanding their neighboors whenever they should feel like it.all this preemptive strike ideologie created by mr. wolfowitz should be sacked it will just get the u.s in deeper crap with the rest of the middle-eastearn world.it is also shameful that france and the rest are keeping a madman in power for their own gain BUT pulling saddam from power this abruptly will cause some major problems in that area between all the tribes(siinte shiite etc).
 

Drunken_Ninja

Turbo Monkey
Aug 25, 2002
1,094
1
Hangin' with Riggs and Mertah
as much dislike this saddam fella and would love to see the US do some major damage in an effort to correct the problem regardless of the costs...

As long as whoever does acheive victory decides to use guille, tact, diplomacy and provide legitimate reports to the world of what is happening. I have no beefs. I just want a piece of the action. Innocents are the casualty of war, victimized martyrs bs.

There is a right way and a wrong way to go about solving your problems. I think that Bush wobbled when he decided that he wanted war to the extent that he has hindered his own efforts by not keeping the public and the media informed. In acting like a tyrant he has caused diplomatic problems to no end.

That and he has dominated the media for 2 fvcken years. If he walks the tightrope without falling off all of that time he will leave a lasting impression on the rest of the world. Powermonger and a mental midget I would say from what I've seen and heard.

If I didn't have to hear his stupid comments and see his ugly face every day...maby he would be right for the job. Maby but you would have to replace him with a democrat to do the job right. We all know that democrats are tree huggers. Nothing would get done, another stalemate. (democrats to portray leadership qualities a little better however i think that they are about equal to republicans when it comes to being a right wing party)

It is a miracle that anyone at all is prepared to tackle the middle east problem, that is, if it wasn't induced by the US in the first place...

I do think that anyone supporting saddam is not helping the rest of us. The guy is a madman with alot of weapons, fact. The debate lies in the alternative methods that could be entertained in this situation. What will it take to solve the problem? wish we knew.

A leader has to lead people and countries not divide them. The traits that leadership doesn't include? Vindictive and discriminatory acts. It has become harder and harder to remain politically correct in a world where your behavior has become socially unacceptable.

I don't like bush, I don't like saddam. if i had to chose one of the two to follow on the issue...i probably will...and the decision won't be my own.
 

SandMan

Monkey
Sep 5, 2001
123
0
Montreal QC & Greenwich CT
It's about the oil from both sides. US takes over that are going to put in there one companies.

Also don't forget that Chenney is a member of the boardn, at a salary of 1 000 000 $$ per year, at some company (can't remeber the name), while still being VP. But here is the interesting part, this company was chosen among 7 others, to "help" rebuilt Iraq. Talk about conflict of interest. The source was BBC, I sure that CNN or FOX would never report this. Just look it up.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
You are thinking about a company called Halliburton, and you are wrong on most counts.

a) it is an petro-services company, not an oil company
b) This is a list of corprate officers:

Corporate Officers

David J. Lesar
Read Mr. Lesar's Bio >
Chairman of the Board, President & Chief Executive Officer
4100 Clinton Drive
Houston, TX 77020
USA
(p) 713.676.3011

Bert Cornelison
Executive Vice President & General Counsel
4100 Clinton Drive
Houston, TX 77020
USA
(p) 713.676.3011

Douglas L. Foshee
Read Mr. Foshee's Bio >
Executive Vice President & Chief Operating Officer
4100 Clinton Drive
Houston, TX 77020
USA
(p) 713.676.3011

Jerry H. Blurton
Vice President and Treasurer
4100 Clinton Drive
Houston, TX 77020
USA
(p) 713.676.3011

Cedric W. Burgher
Vice President
Investor Relations
4100 Clinton Drive
Houston, TX 77020
USA
(p) 713.676.3011

Margaret E. Carriere
Vice President & Secretary
4100 Clinton Drive
Houston, TX 77020
USA
(p) 713.676.3011

Charles E. Dominy
Vice President
Government Affairs
1150 18th St NW Ste 200
Washington, DC 20036
USA
(p) 202.223.0820

Arthur D. Huffman
Vice President & Chief Information Officer
10200 Bellaire Blvd
Houston, TX 77020-5299
USA
(p) 281.575.3000

Weldon J. Mire
Vice President
Human Resources
10200 Bellaire Blvd
Houston, TX 77020-5299
USA
(p) 281.575.3000

R. Charles Muchmore, Jr.
Vice President & Controller
10200 Bellaire Blvd
Houston, TX 77020-5299
USA
(p) 281.575.3000

David R. Smith
Vice President
Tax
4100 Clinton Drive
Houston, TX 77020
USA
(p) 713.676.3011


c) this is a list of their board of directors:
Board of Directors

Robert L. Crandall
Chairman Emeritus, AMR Corporation/American Airlines, Inc., (engaged primarily in the air transportation business); Chairman, President and Chief Executive Officer, AMR Corporation and Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, American Airlines, Inc., 1985-1998, President American Airlines, Inc., 1985-1995; joined Halliburton Company Board in 1986; Chairman of the Nominating and Corporate Governance and member of the Audit, the Compensation and the Management Oversight Committees; Director of Celestica, Inc., American Express Company, Clear Channel Communications, Inc. and Anixter International Inc.

Kenneth T. Derr
Retired Chariman of the Board, Chevron Corporation (an international oil company); Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Chevron Corporation, 1989-1999; Director of AT&T Corp., Citigroup Inc. and Potlatch Corporation.

Charles J. DiBona
Retired President and Chief Executive Officer, American Petroleum Institute (a major petroleum industry trade association), 1979-1997; joined Halliburton Company Board in 1997; member of the Health, Safety and Environment, the Compensation and the Management Oversight Committees; Chairman of the Board of Trustees, Logistics Management Institute.

Lawrence S. Eagleburger
Senior Foreign Policy Advisor, Baker, Donelson, Bearman & Caldwell (a Washington D.C. law firm); United States Secretary of State, Department of State, 1992-1993; Acting Secretary of State, 1992; Deputy Secretary of State, 1989-1992; joined Halliburton Company Board in 1998; member of the Audit, the Compensation and the Management Oversight and the Nominating and Corporate Governance Committees; Director of Phillips Petroleum Company, Stimsonite, Universal Corporation, Corning Corp. and COMSAT.

W.R. Howell
Chairman Emeritus, J.C. Penney Company, Inc. (a major retailer); Chairman of the Board, J.C. Penney Company, Inc., 1983-1996; Chief Executive Officer, J. C. Penney Company, Inc., 1983-1995; joined Halliburton Company Board in 1991; Chairman of the Management Oversight Committee and member of the Audit and the Compensation Committees; Director of ExxonMobil Corporation, Pfizer Inc., Bankers Trust Company, Bankers Trust New York Corporation, The Williams Companies, Inc., and American Electric Power Company, Inc.

Ray L. Hunt
For more than five years, Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer, Hunt Oil Company (oil and gas exploration and development); Chairman of the Board, Chief Executive Officer and President, Hunt Consolidated, Inc. and Chairman of the Board, Chief Executive Officer and President, RRH Corporation; joined Halliburton Company Board in 1998; Chairman of the Compensation Committee and member of the Audit and the Management Oversight Committees; Director of Electronic Data Systems PepsiCo, Inc. and Security Capital Group Incorporated; Class C Director of the Federal Reserve Bank of Dallas.

David J. Lesar
Chairman of the Board, President and Chief Executive Officer of the Company; President of the Company, 1997-2000; Executive Vice President and Chief Financial Officer, 1995-1997; joined Halliburton Company Board in 2000; Director of Lyondell Chemical Company and Mirant Corporation.

Aylwin B. Lewis
Chief Operating Officer, TRICON Global Restaurants, Inc. (a quick service restaurant company); Executive Vice President, Operations and New Business Development, TRICON Global Restaurants, Inc., January -July 2000; Chief Operating Officer, Pizza Hut, Inc., 1997-1999; Senior Vice President, Operations, Pizza Hut, Inc., 1996-1997; Senior Vice President, Marketing and Operations Development, KFC-Pepsico, Inc., 1995-1996; joined Halliburton Company board in 2001.

J. Landis Martin
For more than five years, President and Chief Executive Officer, NL Industries, Inc. (a manufacturer and marketer of titanium dioxide pigments) and Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Titanium Metals Corporation (an integrated producer of titanium metals); President, Titanium Metals Corporation, since 2000; Chief Executive Officer, Titanium Metals Corporation since 1995; Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer, Baroid Corporation (and its predecessor), acquired by Dresser Industries, Inc., in 1994, 1990-1994; joined Halliburton Company Board in 1998; member of the Health, Safety and Environment, the Nominating and Corporate Governance and the Management Oversight Committees; Director of NL Industries, Inc., Titanium Metals Corporation, Tremont Corporation, Apartment Investment and Management Corporation, Crown Castle International Corporation and Special Metals Corporation.

Jay A. Precourt
Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer, Hermes Consolidated, Inc. (a gatherer, transporter and refiner of crude oil and crude oil products); Vice Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Tejas Gas Corporation, 1986-1999; President, Tejas Corporation, 1996-1998; joined Halliburton Company board in 1998; member of the Compensation, the Health, Safety and Environment and the Management Oversight Committees; Chairman of the Board and Director of Founders Funds, Inc. and Director of the Timken Company.

Debra L. Reed
President, San Diego Gas & Electric Company (a regulated utility company); President-Energy Distribution Services, Southern California Gas Company, 1998-2000; Senior Vice President, Southern California Gas Company, 1995-1998; joined Halliburton Company board in 2001.

C. J. Silas
Retired Chairman of the Board and Chief Executive Officer, Phillips Petroleum Company (engaged in exploration and production of crude oil, natural gas and natural gas liquids on a worldwide basis, the manufacture of plastics and petrochemicals and other activities), 1985-1994; joined Halliburton Company Board in 1993; Chairman of the Audit Committee and member of the Compensation and the Management Oversight Committees; Director of Reader's Digest Association Inc.



About Halliburton

Founded in 1919, Halliburton is one of the world's largest providers of products and services to the oil and gas industries. The Company adds value through the entire lifecycle of oil and gas reservoirs and provides and integrates products and services, starting with exploration and development, moving through production, operations, maintenance, conversion and refining, to infrastructure and abandonment. Halliburton employs 85,000 people in more than 100 countries working in two major operating groups:

Halliburton's Energy Services Group offers a broad array of products and services to upstream oil and gas customers worldwide, ranging from the manufacturing of drill bits and other downhole and completion tools and pressure pumping services to subsea engineering.

KBR, the engineering and construction group, serves the energy industry by designing and building liquefied natural gas plants, refining and processing plants, production facilities and pipelines, both onshore and offshore. KBR's non-energy business meets the engineering and construction needs of governments and civil infrastructure customers. KBR also provides operations and maintenance for a wide variety of facilities.

The VP divested himself of his interest in Halliburton in the fall of 2000. You can bet at his level of involvement if anything untword were going on the SEC would know about it.
If Martha Stewarts penny-ante dealings caught their attention something on the scale suggested certainly would.

The truth is out there. Stop getting your info from hippie idots.
 

SandMan

Monkey
Sep 5, 2001
123
0
Montreal QC & Greenwich CT
Originally posted by Damn True
You are thinking about a company called Halliburton, and you are wrong on most counts.

a) it is an petro-services company, not an oil company
petro services....hello!! Related to the oil industry.

Originally posted by Damn True
You are thinking about a company called Halliburton, and you are wrong on most counts.

Stop getting your info from hippie idots.
It's called the BBC actually, they do give both sides of the story most of the time unlike CNN and Fox news.
 

Damn True

Monkey Pimp
Sep 10, 2001
4,015
3
Between a rock and a hard place.
Originally posted by SandMan
petro services....hello!! Related to the oil industry.



It's called the BBC actually, they do give both sides of the story most of the time unlike CNN and Fox news.
So now we can use "related"? By gosh then we should all go after the CEO's of GM and Ford as well. Heck damn near every heavy industry is "related" to oil.

It may have come from the BBC, but it's wrong, and being repeated by hippie idiots dosen't make it right. The BBC was most likely quoting a hippie idiot who got the info from another hippie idiot.