[Jr_Bullit]

Here's a puzzle I'm working on...

In a recent salary survey it was found that based on my current job I'm paid half of the going market rate for my type of job in my area. The lowball range is 20k higher than my current pay, and the top-end is 1.5 times higher than my current pay.

So, I find this rather frustrating, considering the hours I put in, commitment to the job, etc.

The dilemna I face is I have a great job, good working environment, fairly good benefits, and its fun. My boss has been a great mentor for years...and I admit that when I was hired I was worth only a little more than they paid me, but through a lot of professional development, training, and experience, that's really changed.

I've revamped my resume and shown it to a few close friends who hold higher level jobs and they all went "wow" - why aren't you looking actively for something higher paying?

So - I'm going to post the darned thing in a few places, mail it out to some larger companies, but I can't help the feeling that I'm betraying my office by trying to care of myself....

 

[McGRP01]

If you post or update your resume on monster.com between now and April 15th, you have the chance to win "the trip of a lifetime"!!! It's worth a shot.

 

[Full Trucker]

pish posh girl... "good working environment" doesn't pay the bills! ha! but seriously, there's nothing wrong with shopping your experience around and seeing what's out there - especially if you find something that not only brings you a greater financial reward, but is also a situation that you can learn new things and grow further than where you are now. and heck, if you get some nice offers, you could ALWAYS see if the current gig can match the salary/responsibilities/benefits/duties/what have you.

good luck!

 

[MMcG]

I say go for it - who knows you might land a job at a company that is more fun, has a better work environment, and better benefits!

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

There is NOTHING wrong with looking out for you first. If the subject ever came up at work, exactly what you typed up there would be your answer. You might do a little fishing in the market place and if you get a solid bite have that conversation with your manager. Unfortunately attrition and turnover are a part of the real world, and you could be the best [insert your job title here], but sometimes the company that you cut your teeth with just cannot afford, or doesn't have the space for your professional development.

 

[I Are Baboon]

but I can't help the feeling that I'm betraying my office by trying to care of myself....

Meh, you won't be betraying anyone. That is just the nature of business. They are doing you an injustice by paying you so low. If they knew what they were doing, they'd know your pay is low by using third-party salary surveys. Besides, maybe if you give your notice they'll make you a sweet counter-offer.

I'd venture to guess that most people advance their careers by changing employers as opposed to being promoted by their current employer.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Ya - that's what I've been told, which is why I'm giving it a whirl...but I still feel like I'd be betraying my company....

What's triggering this is the knowledge my boss is taking out a 100k insurance policy on me (yep, just like a piece of furniture), so in case, in any of my adventures (like another rock falling in my head) I don't survive, he can afford to higher someone in fast that can hopefully pick up my job in a reasonable amount of time...

My thought is, dood, if you need a 100k insurance policy on me, then I need a raise!!! But he doesn't think of it like that...and I know if I receive an offer for what I'm worth on the going market, even the low-ball end, I'd be surprised if my boss matched it...though I could be wrong - rumour has it he pays for one of the directors kids to go to some high falutin pre-school...

 

[Jr_Bullit]

I'm guessing all of you, at one point or other, left the company you "cut your teeth" with?

 

[JRB]

I'm guessing all of you, at one point or other, left the company you "cut your teeth" with?

Yes - don't sacrifice being able to screw around though.

 

[Brian HCM#1]

Get it out there, who knows you may get hired by a company that can pay way more. Then as you tell your boss you're quiting he may match that offer to get you to stay.

 

[I Are Baboon]

I'm guessing all of you, at one point or other, left the company you "cut your teeth" with?

Yup. My first empoyer out of college taught me a lot, trained me, and gave me much needed experience. I left after three years to take a supervisor job and a 30% raise.

 

[stosh]

It's a hard call. Did you ever think about asking your boss about your pay in a non-confrontational way?

 

[Full Trucker]

What's triggering this is the knowledge my boss is taking out a 100k insurance policy on me (yep, just like a piece of furniture), so in case, in any of my adventures (like another rock falling in my head) I don't survive, he can afford to higher someone in fast that can hopefully pick up my job in a reasonable amount of time...

I've heard it said that if you are irreplaceable, then you arn't promotable either. If they need INSURANCE to gaurantee your position will always be filled, it definitely sounds like you might be one of the "irreplaceable ones" and can't really advance where you are. If that's the case - then they are betraying you in a way, by hindering your progress. or... something...

 

[binary visions]

but I still feel like I'd be betraying my company....

No no nonono!

Take care of yourself first. This is a business you're working for. I'm sure you do a great job for them, but when you leave, they'll hire someone else and continue on with their day.

If you want to stay because you value your working environment, despite the low pay, that's your perogative, but you should never stay because you feel that you "owe" them.

You have provided them with your services, they have provided you with a paycheck (and apparently a meagre one at that). The transaction is over once you've received payment for your services.

I'm sure they'll miss you, and I'm sure your boss will grumble and complain, "If I had given this to Jr_B, it would have been done already." But you owe them nothing, just as they owe you nothing, and life will continue after you, just like it continued before you.

 

[Crashby]

A very valuable lessen to learn early on in your professional career is that now, unfortunately, there is little/no loyalty that employers have to YOU. There may be more in smaller companies, but every day, hundreds of people are laid off with no severance/benefits from jobs they have had for 10, 20, 30 years... some only months away from full retirement benefits. Pensions are going by the wayside, and are largely the exception, not the rule.

Take care of yourself... maximize every opportunity to advance yourself in title and pay.

...hope this helps.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I'm guessing all of you, at one point or other, left the company you "cut your teeth" with?

Yep, I left my first "Real Job" immediately received almost a 10k raise per year for doing the same title job else where, then 3 months later got promoted from that position with the same company.

 

[Snacks]

I'm guessing all of you, at one point or other, left the company you "cut your teeth" with?

Nope, still here I have started looking around though.

Kevin has been at Travis for 15 years this summer, crazy

 

[N8 v2.0]

Earnig less at a job you enjoy is worth more than earning more at a job you hate.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

Earnig less at a job you enjoy is worth more than earning more at a job you hate.

That depends on how much you are earning and the degree that you like or dislike your job.

There is a reason why its called "work" and not "fun time" or something. Its what you do, not who you are. I like my job, but I would probably take one that annoyed me twice as much for twice the pay. However I wouldn't take one that I liked twice as much for 1/2 the pay.

JrB, I am sure you know, but you have to look out for your best interests before your companies, I can assure you they are looking out for their best interests before they are looking out for yours.

 

[MMike]

Betraying the company that low-balling you??????? For shame.

 

[dh girlie]

F that man...go for it. You're not there for your health...and besides...if you get a job elsewhere then the fat guy can have your portion of snacks...and you won't have to worry about him eating more than his share cuz you won't care cuz you'll be elsewhere.

 

[likeustoleit]

The way I look at it, your labor is a commodity. You want to get the best price for it you can. Likewise, employeers want to get the most/best work they can for the least money.

If you can find a better deal elsewhere, take it. The company would.

 

[splat]

I'm guessing all of you, at one point or other, left the company you "cut your teeth" with?

How long have you been there ?

My first Job out of College ( not counting Co-op ), I was there for 13 years and it was one of the toughest things I have ever done. but it was also one ofthe best things I ever did. for starters I got a %25 raise and have been able to broaden my experience.

But Right now in this work enviroment , there is no Company Loyalty, it is a sad fact of life.

one other thing my father told me :

We are all prositutes , it is just a matter of what we are willing to do for how much they are willing to pay us.

 

[pigboy]

Quiet wage slave! Back to your hovel! No whining! Work faster! Don't disturb me while I eat these donuts! No you may not have any donuts. Donuts are for valuable managers, not for wage slaves.

seriously, if you want/need more money ask your boss about changing your compensation. if that conversation goes nowhere or merely results in a lot of waffling from your boss (ie. "Well maybe in a few months we _might_ be able to talk about that idea.") then you know that they are quite happy to exploit you, but not interested in adequately compensating you for your work. That's your green light to do a serious job hunt and get yourself more money and hopefully a manager who is less of a tool. But if your current boss actually values your efforts and you point out the compensation mis-match between your salary and what the market seems to be paying s/he ought to fix that situation right away. And don't accept any BS about "Well we only change salaries during the once-per-year performance review period." That is baloney. It's mostly a tool employers use to try and minimize raises. If they use the "once-a-year" argument politely point out that you are way below the salary curve and you expect it to be fixed for the next paycheck. Be polite. Be firm. If they don't fix it then get a new job.

and if you're like me the first few times you try to ask for a raise you'll be so tense you'll want to barf or run screaming from the room while you attempt to have these conversations with your boss. if you have this reaction just take a few breaths and keep talking. it's just the good old "fight or flight" reaction showing up in a situation where it is not at all helpful. the good news is that the more jobs you go through the less stressful this entire situation is.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

How long have you been there ?

My first Job out of College ( not counting Co-op ), I was there for 13 years and it was one of the toughest things I have ever done. but it was also one ofthe best things I ever did. for starters I got a %25 raise and have been able to broaden my experience.

But Right now in this work enviroment , there is no Company Loyalty, it is a sad fact of life.

one other thing my father told me :

We are all prositutes , it is just a matter of what we are willing to do for how much they are willing to pay us.

3.5 years - and to be fair - during this period of time my raises add up to 50% of my salary, which is nice, but they won't take me to the next level...

 

[pigboy]

3.5 years - and to be fair - during this period of time my raises add up to 50% of my salary, which is nice, but they won't take me to the next level...

what is the "next level"? if you are looking to buy a house, get married, have a kid etc that can be a good thing to bring up when talking to your boss. sometimes bringing that angle into the conversation can tip the scales in your favor. i don't think it ought to matter (pay should be derived from performance and the job market), but sometimes the personal stuff does matter to your boss and if you can show that you're not going to blow the money on big screen televisions, eight more mountain bikes and so forth then your request may seem less venal than if it were driven by greed alone.

but if you're just trying to make Level 60 Paladin, well then you're just being silly.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

Thanks everyone for all the great comments! It's a tough decision - I don't "love" my job, but I know how great of a job it is, how good I am at it, and so on - but I don't like the idea of being locked into a low wage simply because I'm young, or because I haven't made the demands enough for more raises.

 

[Jr_Bullit]

what is the "next level"? if you are looking to buy a house, get married, have a kid etc that can be a good thing to bring up when talking to your boss. sometimes bringing that angle into the conversation can tip the scales in your favor. i don't think it ought to matter (pay should be derived from performance and the job market), but sometimes the personal stuff does matter to your boss and if you can show that you're not going to blow the money on big screen televisions, eight more mountain bikes and so forth then your request may seem less venal than if it were driven by greed alone.

but if you're just trying to make Level 60 Paladin, well then you're just being silly.

Mostly I'm trying to get beyond the stage of living paycheck to paycheck - I'm working very hard on paying student loans, credit card debts from college, car loan etc. I'm also going to be buying my first house in the next two to three months, and my salary will dictate what kind of house it is that I walk into. At this stage in life, I'm still a single income girl - just me and my cat - and I know I do well for myself considering - but...

well here's a good example - my job requires me to be in front of customers frequently...which demands a certain level of professional dress and attire. But - new clothes, especially expensive new clothes, are not a part of my budget. I budget $200 a month for food/play, and $100 for gas...Beyond that my income goes to living expenses and paying of debt...pretty simple life that I don't see changing too drastically - but a little cush in the saving account would be nice for the day when my car finally needs its new timing belt..etc etc.

 

[Snacks]

Goodness! I need to look for a new job!

 

[jxq25]

40K?

Sorry for the innappropriate q but I just wanted to see if I could still solve simple equations with multiple variables.

 

[MMike]

I'm on mt 6th job since university. Boeing is the only one I didn't leave voluntarily...

 

[Talkingmonkey]

I'm on mt 6th job since university. Boeing is the only one I didn't leave voluntarily...

Yeah, well, thats just because you quit before they could fire you.
Hey, I was working on a project the other day and a drawing you did came up. Of all the sheets in the Parts List, your's was revised the least. Chris and I laughed about it.
You still suck though.

 

[Leethal]

Betraying the company that low-balling you??????? For shame.

Right on!!!! Do you really think they do not know your a bargain...As much as we like to believe our bosses are idiots they still have some scruples...

 

[Jr_Bullit]

40K?

Sorry for the innappropriate q but I just wanted to see if I could still solve simple equations with multiple variables.

Haha - currently just a little under 45, and believe me, I know it's a lot in some areas around the US, but not here...

My resume is mostly tweaked well enough to start sending out to other companies...kind of strange but I had to take my current job and split it into three distinct "titles" because I do three distinct things. We'll see if it gets any good responses.

I'm going to sit down and also try and talk out my concerns with my boss - part of me still feels very loyal to the company and I feel like they should be given first opportunity.

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I'm going to sit down and also try and talk out my concerns with my boss - part of me still feels very loyal to the company and I feel like they should be given first opportunity.

I'd be weary. You might want to shop yourself a little first. At least have a little something in your pocket before you head in there. This is a negotiation, always negotiate from strength not weakness. You will be in a much better position to have that discussion if you have even an incling of an offer else where. If you dont, you have that discussion, you dont get the result you want and you end up not leaving you probably have just pigeon holed yourself for quite some time.

 

[MMike]

Yeah, well, thats just because you quit before they could fire you.
Hey, I was working on a project the other day and a drawing you did came up. Of all the sheets in the Parts List, your's was revised the least. Chris and I laughed about it.
You still suck though.

I KICK ASS.

You however suck. So does your fork.

 

[dan-o]

I'd be weary. You might want to shop yourself a little first. At least have a little something in your pocket before you head in there. This is a negotiation, always negotiate from strength not weakness. You will be in a much better position to have that discussion if you have even an incling of an offer else where. If you dont, you have that discussion, you dont get the result you want and you end up not leaving you probably have just pigeon holed yourself for quite some time.

This is great advice.

 

[Talkingmonkey]

I KICK ASS.

You however suck. So does your fork.

Hey, say what you want about me, but you leave my fork alone.
It does suck. I think I need stiffer springs.
Maybe some heavier weight oil.
Would Crisco work?

 

[SkaredShtles]

I'd be weary. <snip>

I'd probably be more wary than weary, but my job *does* tire me out a bit..........

-S.S.-

 

[MTB_Rob_NC]

I'd probably be more wary than weary, but my job *does* tire me out a bit..........

-S.S.-

damn grammer/speelin polize