[pigboy]

please.

share your feelings.

I'm looking at the 27.5" wheel size mt bikes

I used to ride a 2004 S-works enduro (stolen). have not been riding for a few years. not interested in DH or big drops. just a boring trail riding guy.

single pivot vs. multi pivot

 

[StiHacka]

Get one of them 27.5 Giants and be happy.

 

[jonKranked]

No pivots

 

[pigboy]

No pivots

my crabby old back says eff that shizzat.

rear suspension will be part of the equation.

 

[Team 9.8]

Multiple pivots is always better than single pivot. You can create multiple leverage ratios and shock paths that you could never get with a single. That said, single pivots are usually plusher bikes, but you can blow through the travel relatively easily.

I would always go multiple pivot. If you want 27.5", I would look at the Pivot Mach 6, Specialized Stumpjumper, and the Santa Cruz Bronson.

 

[jdcamb]

Multiple pivots is always better than single pivot. You can create multiple leverage ratios and shock paths that you could never get with a single. That said, single pivots are usually plusher bikes, but you can blow through the travel relatively easily.

I would always go multiple pivot. If you want 27.5", I would look at the Pivot Mach 6, Specialized Stumpjumper, and the Santa Cruz Bronson.

Kind of like Nacho Chips from the Dollar Store and Doritos.... I'm with you, tell us more.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

I like single pivot because I keep bikes for years and single pivot is dead simple to maintain. I would also recommend staying the hell away from proprietary shocks and forks, e.g., no lefties or whatever that Specialized madness was, the brain or whatever.

 

[maxyedor]

I like single pivot because I keep bikes for years and single pivot is dead simple to maintain. I would also recommend staying the hell away from proprietary shocks and forks, e.g., no lefties or whatever that Specialized madness was, the brain or whatever.

I agree, except that the Lefy is actually a pretty decent fork, and can be replaced with a traditional fork if you want to. The problem is that they come on Cannondales which also come with stupid proprietary pull shocks, and there's absolutely no fix for that.

I also like single-pivot frames with big bearings in the main pivot, and a dog-bone to keep everything nice and rigid. I swear I spend more time tearing down, cleaning, re-building, and checking torque on my friend's bikes than they do actually riding them. Blowing through the travel on a single-pivot is a genuine issue, but can be overcome with shock tuning.

I have gotten most of the loose pivots on friend's bikes sorted out with clean threads, proper torque and proper loctite, but that's prep I just don't have to worry about on my single pivot frames.

 

[OGRipper]

I think you mean pivots, not links. (Some single pivot bikes have multiple links.) Anyway, hard to answer. General consensus is that multi-pivot bikes perform better for a variety of reasons, including shock rate, axle path, braking performance, etc., but some say the differences are mostly theoretical. Also, some think the added maintenance of multi-pivot bikes isn't worth it, but that depends on the bike and where you live and ride. (Dry climate? Don't worry about it.) Really though, these are sweeping generalizations. There are some single pivot rigs I'd rather ride than some multi-pivot bikes, whether due to suspension design, build quality, geometry, etc.

 

[jonKranked]

given how good shocks are nowadays, it's kind of a moot argument*.


*a good shock can't overcome bad suspension kinematics, and vice versa.

 

[jonKranked]

Multiple pivots is always better than single pivot. You can create multiple leverage ratios and shock paths that you could never get with a single. That said, single pivots are usually plusher bikes, but you can blow through the travel relatively easily.

I would always go multiple pivot. If you want 27.5", I would look at the Pivot Mach 6, Specialized Stumpjumper, and the Santa Cruz Bronson.

horsesh*t. some of the best riding bikes i've ever been on were single pivots.

the best linkage design in the world can't overcome poor shock performance, or poor shock tuning.

 

[jonKranked]

my crabby old back says eff that shizzat.

rear suspension will be part of the equation.

if you want help picking a bike, we're gonna need more info... where you ride, how you ride, are you looking for something that climbs well, etc. what are your requirements?

 

[Team 9.8]

horsesh*t. some of the best riding bikes i've ever been on were single pivots.

the best linkage design in the world can't overcome poor shock performance, or poor shock tuning.

Dude we aren't talking about walmart bikes here. Plain and simple, multiple shock paths is better. You can argue it until you're blue in the face, but it's the truth. Sure you can tune out some of the flaws with a single pivot with shock tuning, but your still tuning out flaws...

 

[Jm_]

Santa Cruz Super 8

 

[jonKranked]

Dude we aren't talking about walmart bikes here. Plain and simple, multiple shock paths is better. You can argue it until you're blue in the face, but it's the truth. Sure you can tune out some of the flaws with a single pivot with shock tuning, but your still tuning out flaws...

guess what? there are plenty of poorly designed linkage driven & multi pivot bikes out there that are riddled with flaws. having multiple pivots/links is no indication of well designed kinematics. one system isn't inherently superior to the other; it comes down to how well each is designed and executed.

 

[Team 9.8]

guess what? there are plenty of poorly designed linkage driven & multi pivot bikes out there that are riddled with flaws. having multiple pivots/links is no indication of well designed kinematics. one system isn't inherently superior to the other; it comes down to how well each is designed and executed.

Alright I see your point now. At first I was confused haha.

 

[kickstand]

Dude we aren't talking about walmart bikes here. Plain and simple, multiple shock paths is better. You can argue it until you're blue in the face, but it's the truth. Sure you can tune out some of the flaws with a single pivot with shock tuning, but your still tuning out flaws...

I am glad you joined here recently, you seem really smart.

 

[jonKranked]

Alright I see your point now. At first I was confused haha.

yea sorry if i wasn't immediately clear. this isn't the kind of conversation that can be had with broad generalizations.

and the best suspension design in the world can easily be undermined by a crappy shock, or a poorly tuned shock.

 

[Team 9.8]

yea sorry if i wasn't immediately clear. this isn't the kind of conversation that can be had with broad generalizations.

and the best suspension design in the world can easily be undermined by a crappy shock, or a poorly tuned shock.

Very true, but hopefully if you are buying a new and higher end bike you won't have a crappy shock. Now poorly tuned... sure.

I am a mechanical engineer by trade, so when you discuss single shock pathway versus multiple, multiple is always better, assuming the company that designed it wasn't a bunch of idiots. All of them are going to ride differently though, so it really comes down to the rider. I have both single and multiple pathway bikes and like them for different reasons, but if I was going to only have one, it would be a larger brand multiple pivot point.

 

[MMike]

Can the RM7 be used for free-riding?

 

[Jm_]

Can the RM7 be used for free-riding?

With moar shimz, it can.

 

[jonKranked]

I am a mechanical engineer by trade, so when you discuss single shock pathway versus multiple, multiple is always better, assuming the company that designed it wasn't a bunch of idiots.

Oh man, funniest thing I've read on this board in a long time. Thanks for the laugh.


This isn't a dig at you, but you're putting waaaaaayyyyy too much faith in bike industry "engineers"

 

[kickstand]

Well, he claims to be a mechanical engineer himself. There is a high population of idiots in that demographic.

 

[jdcamb]

Well, he claims to be a mechanical engineer himself. There is a high population of idiots in that demographic.

Well maybe he is the exception to that generalization? We gotta give him a chance first...

 

[MMike]

Wasn't dw a "mechanical engineer"? I HATE those guys......oh...wait....

 

[buildyourown]

Neither. Buy the one that fits and feels the best. Don't limit yourself based on perceived strengths and weaknesses.
Some of the best bikes I've ridden look horrible on paper. I almost ordered a Santa Cruz TR and then I rode one. It felt horrible. In so many ways.

 

[jonKranked]

also, wtf is a shock "pathway"?

 

[Sandro]

I am a mechanical engineer by trade

9.8 being the speed of gravity

 

[Sandwich]

Sandro's gonna make fun of me again, but...

this:

Anyway, hard to answer. General consensus is that multi-pivot bikes perform better for a variety of reasons, including shock rate, axle path, braking performance, etc., but some say the differences are mostly theoretical. Also, some think the added maintenance of multi-pivot bikes isn't worth it, but that depends on the bike and where you live and ride. (Dry climate? Don't worry about it.) Really though, these are sweeping generalizations. There are some single pivot rigs I'd rather ride than some multi-pivot bikes, whether due to suspension design, build quality, geometry, etc.

There are great riding, single pivot, non-linkaged bikes. And there are terrible riding, multiple pivot, several times-patented bikes that are inferior, at least on paper.

Don't discount a single pivot because it's not patenty enough. Don't immediately praise a multi-link bike because it has more linkages and patents than another.

I'd much rather take a british single pivot, built in a shed, leaking oil from the factory, with great geometry and a good shock rate than a xqzwrts-link with 18" chainstays and a reach of 15".

 

[Sandro]

Sandro's gonna make fun of me again, but...

Naw, I agree with most of what you write, but you will have to live with being Mr. Anti Squat, at least until DW starts another Yaw thread.

 

[jonKranked]

Naw, I agree with most of what you write, but you will have to live with being Mr. Anti Squat, at least until DW starts another Yaw thread.

now we need to discuss regressive yaw pathways

 

[jdcamb]

now we need to discuss regressive yaw pathways

Eye-position dependence of torsional velocity during interaural translation, horizontal pursuit, and yaw-axis rotation in humans?

 

[Sandro]

Eye-position dependence of torsional velocity during interaural translation, horizontal pursuit, and yaw-axis rotation in humans?

No, not in humans, in 650Bs. How are you ever going to make any money if you can't print in on a chainstay?

 

[HardtailHack]

Single six million pivots, Knolly!

 

[Sandwich]

six sigma pivots?

 

[jonKranked]

yo dawg i herd u liek pivots

 

[CrabJoe StretchPants]

six sigma pivots?

Bell (coupler) curves?

 

[jdcamb]

No, not in humans, in 650Bs. How are you ever going to make any money if you can't print in on a chainstay?

Don't Humans utilize Bikes for the most part? So part of the limitations of either design is that the Human variable is so huge. For that reason each design might serve someones physiology better then another based on that huge variable?

 

[jonKranked]

Don't Humans utilize Bikes for the most part? So part of the limitations of either design is that the Human variable is so huge. For that reason each design might serve someones physiology better then another based on that huge variable?

the chris christie fat link?

 

[jonKranked]

also, pigboy shows up, sh*tshow ensues.


good job.