[Udi]

Anyone here had long-term experience under non-dentist usage?

Ideally proper DH use: including smacking pedals into things, maybe bending a pedal spindle, clipping rocks with the crank arm itself - that kind of stuff.

I know the old ones had alloy threads which could tear out, did they rectify that in any way? The current pedal insert still looks like aluminium, not steel. There also appears to be no washer or load distribution mechanism to cater for pedal impacts. I am open to correction here.

Any random internet pics of the later "cinch" version broken or damaged? I know the old spiders cracked but that's long gone.

I've both bent and ripped threads out of a pile of XTs, but have run Saints for years with no issues. I'm doubtful that plastic cranks would work for me, but doesn't hurt to ask.

 

[kidwoo]

I've bent and ripped pedals out of xt cranks too. They're soft. I've been on some sixC cranks for two seasons now with no issues. So whatever pedal inserts would come in year and a half old models are in there but I haven't had any problems. I do use washers.

The cinch mech sucks but you know that already. I don't think I've hit my pedals any more or less than normal but I haven't bent a spindle or ripped one out. All this on the unridibru BB height of a DHR with 170s.

The weight difference between them and the saints I took off will keep me on them.

I put a strip of mastic tape along the edge of each just because I ride in so much gravel, I get nicks on the underside of whatever cranks I use. Being plastic and all.......

 

[lobsterCT]

Not DH, but riding this set hard for two seasons. 240 lbs. I strike my pedals frequently, and rub off the rubber protectors quite a bit, so I carry a spare set in my pack. No damage from that. I do use a pedal washer, and yes, aluminum inserts. The only significant damage is at the top in this photo. About a 1/8" chip from a kicked up rock riding fast. I didn't feel like mixing west system and filler, so I just blobbed it with JB weld. Seems ok. Been like this about a season.

I read the RF bb sucks, so I started with a RWC with stainless bearings. Have not had the creaking that people complain about with this crankset.

If you are destroying xt cranks, I would think you should stick to saints.

 

[ZHendo]

The guy I ride DH with most often is a total hack on a DH bike, and has been beating on his SixC cranks for 2 years now without a single issue. He rides VP Harrier pedals (MASSIVE platform) and smacks them into all manner of things. I've seen him go OTB multiple times from mashing a pedal into stumps, rocks, etc. that stop his bike dead in its tracks. He's 170lb, so not a big guy necessarily, but does an unusual amount of damage to parts and bikes for his stature.

 

[HAB]

I've bent a Saint arm before, you can break pretty much anything if you fuck up badly enough

I had some SIXc cranks for a bit and the arms were burly, but like 'woo said, the spindle interface kinda sucks. I never really could get mine to stop creaking for more than a week at a time, so I'm back on Shimano and couldn't be happier.

 

[mykel]

This is my fourth season on a set of SIXc 165mm on the big bike.
I'm a 220 lb hack who is about as smooth as a pallet of bricks falling down stairs.
I have clipped pedals / crank ends on far too many rides - kind of if I don't get though a ride without clipping a rock, something may be wrong.

I have been running spank spikes, so can not use the little booties.
I have added a strip of frame protector around the bottom of each though.

No creaks or weird noises for me.

Would bang again.

 

[Udi]

I wonder if the pair kidwoo/HAB used suffered some interface wear from being run loose at some point in their life. It looks the the alloy spindle mates directly with the carbon arm, i.e. the female spline has no alloy insert? In this case I'd imagine it wouldn't take much to damage that interface permanently and potentially never fit the same again afterwards.

No doubt the interface is squarely inferior to Shimano HT2, but I have had a couple heavy-riding friends running these for a few seasons and apparently there have been no creaking issues from the interface.

I'm wondering if the problem is preventable under a more diligent user, and/or more careful initial setup (perhaps with loctite to ensure a situation where the interface is loaded while loose never occurs). However I don't really like re-torquing or checking torque on threads that have been loctited since it seems to deteriorate the bond in the process. So that seems potentially annoying, unless I could know they'd stay put permanently once loctited.

Anyway just thinking out loud. Interesting to read the longer term experiences.

@lobsterCT
What pedal washers are you using? Thanks for the pic.

@mykel
I'm guessing by pedal washer you mean the ones that come with the Spank pedals - however I was thinking maybe a larger diameter washer (of similar thickness) would be nice to spread the load a bit better under impacts. Not sure if such a thing is available though. Bit annoying that the boot won't fit with those, I run either spike or oozy pedals as well. I see the boot as being of high importance for DH (my Saint cranks have very deep gouges in that area), and somehow "frame protector" doesn't sound like it'd do the same job at all. Got a pic of what yours are looking like?

 

[kidwoo]

I'm wondering if the problem is preventable under a more diligent user, and/or more careful initial setup (perhaps with loctite to ensure a situation where the interface is loaded while loose never occurs).

Assuming they were run loose is kind of a shot in the dark. The guy I got them from was designing bikes and racing world cups before you and I ever touched a real dh bike. He's also a blackbox tester who's job is improving bikes. Plus I've just watched him with his own bikes over the last 13 years or so...The likelihood of him running them loose or installing them poorly is pretty slim. I never used them, just sold them to HAB after I realized that asshole sold me 175s. They'd probably been ridden 5ish times before that.

The creaking I've gotten from the ones I've actually ridden (pair of next sls on my trail now for a year also) wasn't from that interface though. It was from the goofy tension ring backing off. Couple that with an aluminum spacer or two plus all the dust I ride in and things get squeaky. It's not that big a big deal, just kind of an occasional annoyance. That's what I was talking about. I don't really have any gripes with the spindle/crank interface other than they're kind of a pain to get the crank bolt started putting them on. I guess HAB gave up on the other ones but the arms I've run, I can always get to shut up.

 

[Udi]

One more question - can you buy individual replacement arms if you damage one, and what's the pricing like? I couldn't see them listed on CRC separately.

@kidwoo -
You can rest assured that the people I know running them have a similar back story or I wouldn't have even considered them in the first place, you already know my opinion on non-shimano interfaces. I have considered that maybe the guys I asked are glossing over minor issues given they wouldn't have paid full price / paid at all for them though, hence this thread.

But do you think these issues are completely avoidable, or are they always going to exist? I.e. can you loctite the tension ring and/or all threaded parts of the crank on initial assembly, and the preload assembly after it's had a chance ot settle in, and then forget the thing forever? Or are you suggesting this is a case of dust entry (seems a bit farfetched and surely sealable in some way if that's the real cause)?.

To be completely honest I feel retarded for having even considered this, but now am genuinely amazed how many people out there are running them. It's the lowest and most central part of a downhill bike, and it's sprung weight, so it basically meets all criteria for the one place you'd want to have the most mass if you were distributing it (or alternatively, the worst place to reduce weight on a bike). Now that's not to say lighter isn't better, it's obviously contributing to an overall lighter bike. But once some creaking and annoyance is added in, the 240g saving is looking less good...

I'm really feeling like it's not worth the hassle especially given the steep price. To be honest I'd happily pay if they were going to be set and forget, but it seems there are mixed opinions on whether that can or cannot be the case.

I've still got an open mind though, happy to hear more.

 

[Lelandjt]

I clipped a rock hard enough to bend a XTR spindle but my SixC was unharmed. This was on a Nomad riding DH at a resort. At my shop I've warrantied 4 sets of Next SL cranks for loose inserts. Raceface was super quick and easy about getting new ones out to us.

If you damage an arm in a non-warranty fashion you'd contact Raceface to buy a replacement cuz distributors don't list separate arms. Again, they seem easy to deal with but that's for a US shop that's only a day away from their Ogden warehouse.

 

[kidwoo]

One more question - can you buy individual replacement arms if you damage one, and what's the pricing like? I couldn't see them listed on CRC separately.

@kidwoo -
You can rest assured that the people I know running them have a similar back story or I wouldn't have even considered them in the first place, you already know my opinion on non-shimano interfaces. I have considered that maybe the guys I asked are glossing over minor issues given they wouldn't have paid full price / paid at all for them though, hence this thread.

But do you think these issues are completely avoidable, or are they always going to exist? I.e. can you loctite the tension ring and/or all threaded parts of the crank on initial assembly, and the preload assembly after it's had a chance ot settle in, and then forget the thing forever? Or are you suggesting this is a case of dust entry (seems a bit farfetched and surely sealable in some way if that's the real cause)?.

The problem IMO is that the ring is just crappy thin plastic. It's easy to overtighten the pinch screw on it, stripping the bore, and it gets hot in the sun and probably gets even softer. I guess you could use the plastic specific loctite on the ring, it could only help. Again, I don't have any problems with any of the other interfaces. I think I've tightened a chainring once but it's nowhere near the annoyance of chainring bolts.

The dust/squeak phenomenon isn't far fetched. One day at northstar here and every bike anyone has ever ridden there gets creaky as soon as you get behind someone. That said, things like frame pivots are worse on a regular basis than the cranks. It's not like they start making a fuss every single ride or anything. Not even close. That plastic ring is the only thing that could be better. Improve that, and I have no gripes whatsoever.

Are they really only 240g lighter than saints? Holding each in my hand I would have guessed something more like 9lbs. But IMO, they're worth it. Literally changing nothing else, you can feel your bike get lighter with just that switch. My heavy ass fox rear shock and SA spring keeps the middle of my bike nice and weighted down low. You were worried about 20 grams on a stem, something that's a far more important interface IMO. If you want to lighten up your bike, these are a gimme. Honestly I've chased down creaks on bashguards and chainring bolts far more than I've had to mess with these.

To be completely honest I feel retarded

Please.
It's 2016.
"Plus bike ready" is the preferred nomenclature.

 

[HAB]

Like 'woo said, the preload ring is plastic and kinda sucks. The earlier ones were aluminum, but they went away from that because those had their own set of creaking issues that I believe were mostly related to dust entry.

I think the most surefire way to make them not creak would be to find some 30mm ID shims and space out the spindle with the preload ring either removed, or bottomed against the crank arm. Basically you'd just make the whole assembly non-adjustable, shimmed out to whatever thickness is needed for your specific setup. I decided that it wasn't worth bothering for me and just sold them while they were still in nice shape.

 

[Udi]

I decided that it wasn't worth bothering for me and just sold them while they were still in nice shape.

I like your idea with the shims.
I also feel like the hassle probably isn't worth it, to replace something on my bike that is infinitely reliable.

Been considering the idea of just trying an XTR 165mm non-drive arm with a nice pedal washer. Wonder how much that would save over the Saint arm (probably 80-100g, far cry from 240g but cheap and keeps the trouble-free interface), and if the splines are compatible on all of them. I ride LFF, so I think it's the right/rear that cops the abuse.

 

[HAB]

I like your idea with the shims.
I also feel like the hassle probably isn't worth it, to replace something on my bike that is infinitely reliable.

Been considering the idea of just trying an XTR 165mm non-drive arm with a nice pedal washer. Wonder how much that would save over the Saint arm (probably 80-100g, far cry from 240g but cheap and keeps the trouble-free interface), and if the splines are compatible on all of them. I ride LFF, so I think it's the right/rear that cops the abuse.

I don't have a Saint crank handy at the moment, but do have an XTR M9020 and some calipers around. Happy to take measurements if it would help.

 

[StiHacka]

Based on the feedback so far, we can conclude the cranks are completely unrideabru.

No big issues with my Cinch Turbine with an alum ring, btw.

 

[kidwoo]

I don't have a Saint crank handy at the moment,

I'll sell you a set for cheap.

Totally creak free in dust. Trust me on this.

 

[jackalope]

^^
This + your Saints = Saints Lite

240 grams worth of speed holes in no time, plus you'd then have several convenient places to hold a spliff while the bike is in the stand.

But FWIW, I have Next SLs on my Megaduro and I haven't had any creaking issues. However, the cranks arms have had some chunks blasted off them, and I'm not sure any carbon crankset would be the best call on a DH bike for a hack like me. It's shots like this one I just got the other day which makes me worry about crabon pedal sticks for real (and longterm) DH use -

 

[HAB]

I'll sell you a set for cheap.

Totally creak free in dust. Trust me on this.

That's good, dust is a huge issue up here

 

[Lelandjt]

Based on the feedback so far, we can conclude the cranks are completely unrideabru.

While I share other posters' lack of enthusiasm for the plastic preload ring has anyone had problems with it coming loose? On my oldest set of Cinch cranks I tightened it once to remove some bearing play that developed but on my other pairs I haven't had to touch it since the install. The plastic scared me so I was careful tightening it but it got tight without stripping. I've got 5 sets of SixC and Next SL Cinch cranks that have been trouble free for 6 months to 2+ years. Since I work at a Santa Cruz and Ibis dealer I also see a lot of these at work and besides the 4 warrantied Next SLs that had loose inserts, no problems. It's a mountain town so even the Ibis owners are using them on real terrain.

My only concern would be using these or any 30mm crank with a BB92 frame cuz the bearings used are so small and I blew through bearings when using a 30mm Lightning crank and BB92 setup. This is only speculation though cuz maybe Raceface uses better bearings.

 

[Udi]

I don't have a Saint crank handy at the moment, but do have an XTR M9020 and some calipers around. Happy to take measurements if it would help.

M9020 165mm is on special here at the moment, maybe I should just buy em and worry about it later. Figure the two halves can upgrade my DH and trail bikes respectively, getting too old to care about things matching.

Any thoughts on them strength wise? I've wondered if the XTR uses a better alloy than XT.

 

[HAB]

M9020 165mm is on special here at the moment, maybe I should just buy em and worry about it later. Figure the two halves can upgrade my DH and trail bikes respectively, getting too old to care about things matching.

Any thoughts on them strength wise? I've wondered if the XTR uses a better alloy than XT.

Certainly so far so good for me, but I wouldn't say I've really put them through their paces that comprehensively. I've hit the ends a few times but don't think I've really beat on them that exceptionally hard.