[cwbastian]

I ran into some of the local ROMP trail crew on Sat and was saddened to hear that Cross Cut trail, one of the last remaining technical downhills is being re-routed in favor of the usual tame 2' wide bike path. Seems it wasn't a suitable "uphill trail", so away it goes.

Damn, I really liked that section, too.

The loss is compounded by the fact that we already lost Blue Blossom eariler this year. Pretty soon all the trails at Skeggs will be suitable for the average suburban baby carriage. A damn shame.

I do appreciate the work those guys do, but SOMEBODY has to appreciate the fact that a lot of us like trails that try to hurt us....

 

[Dingus McGee]

The writing was on the wall 6 years ago when I stopped riding XC at ECDM.
The OSP management does not give a #$%^ and never will. Guess I'll push my baby stroller there now like a good little middle-aged father. And ride the Crack instead. R.I.P. Skeggs

 

[Joe Pozer]

I ran into some of the local ROMP trail crew on Sat and was saddened to hear that Cross Cut trail, one of the last remaining technical downhills is being re-routed in favor of the usual tame 2' wide bike path. Seems it wasn't a suitable "uphill trail", so away it goes.

Damn, I really liked that section, too.

The loss is compounded by the fact that we already lost Blue Blossom eariler this year. Pretty soon all the trails at Skeggs will be suitable for the average suburban baby carriage. A damn shame.

I do appreciate the work those guys do, but SOMEBODY has to appreciate the fact that a lot of us like trails that try to hurt us....

I didn't realize that Blue Blossom was closed. From what I understand it will be rebuilt, but who know how long that will take.
That is a shame that the technical DH section of Cross Cut is being sanitized, that section was so much fun. I don't think it was ROMP's decision to re-route that trail. I believe that if it wasn't fixed the entire trail would be closed which would've sucked since that trail is used to connect many other sections.

What I'm really bummed about is that fact that the Disneyland section of Leaf is going to be closed and then re-routed. I'm sure it will be much more tame than before. I hadn't ridden that part in a long time but it was one of my favorites there.

 

[cwbastian]

I didn't realize that Blue Blossom was closed.

It's not closed, it's just rerouted to the point that the original DH sections have been eliminated and the trail no longer has any resemblance to Blue Blossom.

My only problem with ROMP and other IMBA model clubs is that they advance the "trails for riders of all ability" approach that makes for pretty tame stuff. Most of the guys I ride with would prefer a trail system with routes marked "expert", "intermediate", and "beginner" (or black diamond, etc). It would cut down on trail conflict, be safer for everybody, and give those of us who can actually ride a steep without skidding all the way down something interesting to ride. We did this in a couple of trail systems on the east coast a few years back and it worked really, really well.

Just think of the routes you could run at Skeggs if you didn't have to acccomdate Joe Wal-Mart on his $199 Schwinn.

Yeah, I know I'm dreaming.... Damn it.

 

[HarryCallahan]

I don't think it was ROMP's decision to re-route that trail. I believe that if it wasn't fixed the entire trail would be closed which would've sucked since that trail is used to connect many other sections.

Joe Pozer, you got that right. Check it out on ROMP's website, <www.romp.org> And although things between the Open Space district and ROMP and cyclists were pretty ugly a few years ago, this isn't even about how the district feels about cyclists. MROSD is under the gun from either the feds or the state fish and game folks to do something about erosion and the resulting siltation, which is killing salmon in the creeks downstream.

Cw, I'm curious about where the trail systems back east with the difficulty ratings were that you mention. Was it a ski resort area? And what was the topography like

 

[timmeat]

skeegs kicksass
theres plenty of good riding there w/o cross cut
giant salamender
steam donkey
south leaf blue blossom
fir
people who dont climb dont like skeegs
skeegs rocks and always will

 

[goin' medium]

I agree that is sucks to loose technical sections. But Skeggs had to change to preserve fish habitat . I prefer to ride scary downhill, but I ride XC at least once a week to stay in shape. Skeggs falls into that category for me. I figure if poeple who want technical features keep showing up to trail days and doing the work, cool stuff will get built.

I was there last weekend working hard to keep a local XC ride open, and to give my input on how to make it more fun to ride. The new section of trail will be pretty boring, but it may be possible to ride up, instead of hiking. We also suceeded in putting in a small, but well-built log ride.

I am torn. I try to work within the system to keep legal trails as scarey as possible, but often legal trails get neutered in the name of liability. I got to figure it's like voting. If you don't work the trails, you don't get to complain when the results suck. And even when you do the work, sometimes the results aren't what you want

On a brighter note. On a trail day in Soquel Demo forest the volunteer group was made up almost entirely of freeriders. We spent the whole day building stunts. It's what we wanted to ride, and we were there to do the work. True, the stunts aren't huge, but they are there and they are legal.

Scott

 

[HarryCallahan]

Hey there, Goin medium,

here's to you for going out and doing some of the work. I wish you hadn't put in the roll eyes bit about fish habitat, though. Some people feel that way about parks and open space in general. Wild salmon and steelhead are a cool thing, too.

Nice to hear about the trail work at the demo forest, too.

 

[goin' medium]

Don't get me wrong, fish are good. I like fish. And the new plans for Skeggs call for replacing fireroad trails with singletrack. A move in the right direction for biking fun and fish. I just wonder if they are going a little far considering the fact that Skeggs used to be an ORV park. Seems like it may be a bit misguided. But, since I am not up to date on the plight on fish habitat in California, I apologize for doubting the validity of their concerns.

Scott Friend of Fishes

 

[cwbastian]

Cw, I'm curious about where the trail systems back east with the difficulty ratings were that you mention. Was it a ski resort area? And what was the topography like

Actually there are several systems with marked & rated trails in the Charlottesville & Richmond, VA areas, some on state property and some on city/county land. None of the trails I was referring to are ski resort runs.

As far as the terrain goes, the trails most remind me of the stuff on Braille, but more rolling and less sustained DH due to the lack of elevation. East Coast stuff tends to be a lot narrower (Less than 12" v.s. the standard out here at about 24") because the trails get cut by hand and ridden in as opposed to being cut with a Bobcat and buffed with a rake. Of course, you can get away with hand cutting when you're dealing with soft, loamy dirt and not hardpack & bedrock. A lot of the trails I used to ride were literally 6" wide. I'm not saying one is better than the other, but there is a big difference between fast downhill w/ 800' of drop on a 2' wide groomed trail and a slower 100' drop with two log pyramids, a bunch of wet roots, and a 30' log ride, all running through a grove of trees with 2" of clearance on each side of your riser bars. Both good, but very different experiences.

To use an overused phrase; "it's all good", but it would be great if the local stuff had some features that you had to roll over, jump, or otherwise pay attention to. While Demo is the exception to this, even Braille seems to have had some logs cleared off of it and a good section rerouted on Ridge trail (the jump where the trail exits the woods and hits the helipad at the top of Sulpher Springs). It's really places like Skeggs and Saratoga that could really use some trail features. Maybe the land managers don't want it, maybe the "one trail for all abilities" mentailty prohibits building the occasional log pyramid or other stunt. Whatever the reason, it's too bad we don't have more Brailles in an area with such incredible terrain.

 

[HarryCallahan]

Great discussion here. Thanks for the thoughtful posts.

Goin' Medium, regarding your point about skeggs being a former ORV park, it wouldn't matter, in fact if it still was, this would probably shut it down. I think the regs driving this are a combo of endangered species and clean water act requirements. You know how you see hay bales, straw, and silt barriers all around construction sites starting about this time of year? And whether or not someone cares about the environmental side of it, (And I'm not saying you don't) there's also a practical aspect to itiltation and erosion can lead to mudslides, floods, and some big, avoidable public and private expenses.

CW, thanks, too for the followup info. The trails you describe do sound fun. The trail signs and difficulty ratings made me wonder about the ski resort. Personally, I like a no signs, got to get to know the area experience, but I don't mind trail markers.

The rolling and woody terrain sounds like fun. I hear they have some great rides like that in Wisconsin, on what are cross crountry ski trails in the winter. The other difference I could see is that narrower and less steep would mean less chance for erosion. What you describe kind of sounds like the differences between eastern and western downhill ski trails

Originally posted by cwbastian
...even Braille seems to have had some logs cleared off of it and a good section rerouted on Ridge trail (the jump where the trail exits the woods and hits the helipad at the top of Sulpher Springs

I can tell you about that. There were actually a couple incidents where guys jumped onto the pad while there was a copter on it, in at least one case with the rotor spinning. And while I don't know about MROSD, I know at Demo, trail width for Braille was dictated by the need to be able to get the search and rescue quadrunner in

 

[IronJim]

hey i dont know what you guys are talking about so can someone plz tell me

 

[cwbastian]

I can tell you about that. There were actually a couple incidents where guys jumped onto the pad while there was a copter on it, in at least one case with the rotor spinning.

Sounds like a something that ought to be included in the next Thor Wixen video.

BTW, you sound like you know a lot about the local trail scene. Can you tell me why so many local trails have zero features/obstacles/stunts on them?

When a tree falls on a non-Bay Area trail, people build it up with other logs and create a rideable pyramid. When a tree hits a trail around here, it gets cut & removed (again, Demo excepted). Wouldn't the former approach make for better trails?

 

[HarryCallahan]

CW, thanks for the compliment, but I don't know the answer to that.

My educated guess is that it is a combination of things: the status of the lands, established agency trail condition guidelines that are essentialy a building code type regulation, multiple use and cyclists being a newer user group than hikers or equestrians, and of course, good old liability. Note that Demo is not a park. Ditto for trails in national forests or on BLM lands.