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Ski Monkey: Kid Skis

stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,825
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Colorado
Question about skis for Haley: Yesterday we had a hard lesson about skis for her - 119 twin tips are not the ski for deep powder when you are 49" and 50#. I did a quick rental to a "base" 122 to get surface area, which made a huge difference. We did however figure out that on those 122's she was totally fine keeping up, playing around (no trees, or backwards).

For the ski guys - I know a twin tip can go longer, but to what extent vs. a base ski to get a lot of the same aspects without becoming boats?
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
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Seattle
I'd say that the overall rocker profile matters a lot more than the tip shape. Anything with a real amount of tip rocker is going to plane up a ton better than a traditional fully cambered frontside ski. What's she on now?
 
stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,825
7,600
Colorado
HAB said:
I'd say that the overall rocker profile matters a lot more than the tip shape. Anything with a real amount of tip rocker is going to plane up a ton better than a traditional fully cambered frontside ski. What's she on now?
Click to expand...
https://www.aspenskiandboard.com/products/k2juvyboysskis2017?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=googlepla&variant=19834550020&gclid=Cj0KCQiAtvPjBRDPARIsAJfZz0pKh4DqEywQ5nDAuD8hfNJxVgDX9NlFcuJXJmmbMTPqeYKQVV_RDXAaAixHEALw_wcB

So lighter version of these: https://www.evo.com/outlet/skis/k2-shreditor-112
 
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HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
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Seattle
30 seconds of googling didn't yield me any pictures of the rocker profile, but that link describes them as having "all mountain rocker" which almost certainly means some, probably limited, amount of tip and maybe tail rocker with some camber underfoot, which would be better than a full on frontside ski. (That Evo link is for a much, much wider adult ski. Not really very comparable.)


What wasn't working about the K2s that went better on the rental ski? Any idea what those were?
 
stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,825
7,600
Colorado
HAB said:
30 seconds of googling didn't yield me any pictures of the rocker profile, but that link describes them as having "all mountain rocker" which almost certainly means some, probably limited, amount of tip and maybe tail rocker with some camber underfoot, which would be better than a full on frontside ski. (That Evo link is for a much, much wider adult ski. Not really very comparable.)


What wasn't working about the K2s that went better on the rental ski? Any idea what those were?
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It was a "basic" rental, but it had a shit ton more surface area.
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
2,013
Seattle
If you're trying to get better float without making the ski too hard to swing around, I'd focus more on going wider and more rockered rather than longer. 119cm doesn't sound too crazy short for her height, especially if she's that light. Width obviously gets you surface area, which helps, but shape matters a lot too.

I have no idea what the kids ski market looks like, having never had any reason to shop for them, so I can't really recommend specific models off the top of my head, but that's what I'd be looking for.
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
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HAB said:
If you're trying to get better float without making the ski too hard to swing around, I'd focus more on going wider and more rockered rather than longer. 119cm doesn't sound too crazy short for her height, especially if she's that light. Width obviously gets you surface area, which helps, but shape matters a lot too.

I have no idea what the kids ski market looks like, having never had any reason to shop for them, so I can't really recommend specific models off the top of my head, but that's what I'd be looking for.
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one thing about having kids - you kind of get in the tendency to size up on things (clothes, shoes, bikes, probably even skis) if you are purchasing them, because kids outgrow stuff astoundingly quickly.
 
Full Trucker

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
10,805
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Exit, CO
Let me preface this by saying: I mostly don't know. And when you ask "...to what extent (longer can a twin tip be) vs. a base ski to get a lot of the same aspects without becoming boats?" I think A.) length is just one aspect and B.) what are the "same aspects" you're looking to get? Assuming you mean you want more floatation without sacrificing maneuverability / turniness?

Here's a super-general, over-simplified thing: a "twin tip" ski in the same overall length as a "basic" ski (I assume you mean a ski with a traditional flat tail) will "ski shorter" on groomed/packed snow because while overall surface length is the same, the length of the ski that actually contacts the snow is shorter. Typically this would probably mean the sidecut radius is tighter as well, which will generally speaking make the ski feel more turny (maneuverable) on groomed/packed snow. But that doesn't factor in weight of the ski, width, etc. which all also contribute to whether or not a ski feels like a boat. I'd guess at her size weight (probably specifically swing weight?) will be a major component of if the skis feel like boats to her.

I think I agree with HAB on the idea of looking for something wider to get the extra surface area, and keeping the length in check to help keep swing weight down. Going wider will make the ski heavier as well, but theoretically that added weight would be more towards the center, or at least evenly distributed, rather than added to the far ends.

And also, her current skis work just fine most of the time, no? So just maybe rent her something a little bigger (like you did) when the new snow is up to her armpits... which shouldn't be all that often since we live in Colorado and it really doesn't snow here. :D
 
stoney

stoney

Part of the unwashed, middle-American horde
Jul 26, 2006
21,825
7,600
Colorado
Full Trucker said:
Let me preface this by saying: I mostly don't know. And when you ask "...to what extent (longer can a twin tip be) vs. a base ski to get a lot of the same aspects without becoming boats?" I think A.) length is just one aspect and B.) what are the "same aspects" you're looking to get? Assuming you mean you want more floatation without sacrificing maneuverability / turniness?

Here's a super-general, over-simplified thing: a "twin tip" ski in the same overall length as a "basic" ski (I assume you mean a ski with a traditional flat tail) will "ski shorter" on groomed/packed snow because while overall surface length is the same, the length of the ski that actually contacts the snow is shorter. Typically this would probably mean the sidecut radius is tighter as well, which will generally speaking make the ski feel more turny (maneuverable) on groomed/packed snow. But that doesn't factor in weight of the ski, width, etc. which all also contribute to whether or not a ski feels like a boat. I'd guess at her size weight (probably specifically swing weight?) will be a major component of if the skis feel like boats to her.

I think I agree with HAB on the idea of looking for something wider to get the extra surface area, and keeping the length in check to help keep swing weight down. Going wider will make the ski heavier as well, but theoretically that added weight would be more towards the center, or at least evenly distributed, rather than added to the far ends.

And also, her current skis work just fine most of the time, no? So just maybe rent her something a little bigger (like you did) when the new snow is up to her armpits... which shouldn't be all that often since we live in Colorado and it really doesn't snow here. :D
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She's grown 2" since she got these ones, so I was going to go into Christy to up-size her. Just trying to go in a bit smarter, as the group there isn't so much.
 
Full Trucker

Full Trucker

Frikkin newb!!!
Feb 26, 2003
10,805
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Exit, CO
If it’s gonna keep snowing like this, you probably oughtta just buy my Bent Chetlers for her... 192 length and 123 underfoot, one mount, make you a helluva deal. A little big for her now, but she seems to be growing fast.
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
38,980
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Full Trucker said:
If it’s gonna keep snowing like this, you probably oughtta just buy my Bent Chetlers for her... 192 length and 123 underfoot, one mount, make you a helluva deal. A little big for her now, but she seems to be growing fast.
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Nah, that's ridiculous. She needs nothing more than my 190 cm x 118 mm Bibbys.
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
38,980
8,140
HAB said:
Intrigued. PM me with more info on bindings/drilling/whatever if you're serious.
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The bindings aren't on demo plates and the drilling is for my undoubtedly shorter than yours BSL. I think I'll keep them around for future cat-skiing adventures despite my disappointment in them outside of actual powder.
 
Toshi

Toshi

butthole powerwashing evangelist
Oct 23, 2001
38,980
8,140
Nick said:
buys powder ski
wishes it carved better

:twitch:
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Fair point. But I recall the Blister review saying that one could still drag one's butt carving on blues on the way back to the lift. That seemed to be overselling it a bit, one might say.
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
2,013
Seattle
That's maybe for the best, my girlfriend might stab me if I brought home another pair of skis. :D
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
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Seattle
There's probably a good case to be made that I don't *need* a third ski >115mm underfoot anyway. :D
 
SkaredShtles

SkaredShtles

Michael Bolton
Sep 21, 2003
66,429
13,245
In a van.... down by the river
WTH is wrong with you people?!? I have a pair of skis.

OK... two pair - but I basically never use my BC skis any more.

I really should get out on my BC skis more. :(

Wait a second - you guys don't have kids. Carry on. :D
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
2,013
Seattle
I was just about to reply with "skis are WAY cheaper than kids" but I just saw your edit :D
 
HAB

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,583
2,013
Seattle
Nick said:
Disagree. Three is the sweet spot.
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You're right, allow me to rephrase: "I should probably get a first inbounds ski <110mm underfoot before I add a third >115"

Current quiver is 184 4FRNT Ravens as touring skis, 186 Blizzard Bodacious as general purpose inbounds ski, and 192 Praxis Protests with Shifts as an inbounds and sidecountry powder ski.
 
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