Quantcast

sl-ata

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
2,936
1
Santiago du Chili
hi guys

got my greasy hands on one of them new shiny 07 air 888's and of course i just had to take a peek inside....

i spent some time looking for differences and could only come up with that the RC damper rod now has a notch to keep the volume spacer in place, and that some lightening has taken place at the dropouts, oh and the new post mount style brake mount of course. the lower compression adjuster is the same as before (so mind that bolt torque in order not to lose the adjuster) but the upper rebound adjuster is a slick triangular job.



crowns, stem and steerer are the same at least to my eye.
the air spring side is of course all new and very interesting.

the ATA adjuster has two movable flaps that make it really easy to crank, its all metal too which of course is so much more macho than plastic. it works pretty much like a uturn, by threading one part into another.





the rest of the cartridge i havent fully understood yet since i havent dissected it, but there are 3 separate air chambers in there, the positive is kinda obvious, the negative too, but the third one seems to work when the main rod hits a rod on the bottom and thus creates a third chamber for bottom out protection, ill look into this later.

as for how it works, well i havent ridden it but my field agent had some trouble getting full travel out of it because it ramps up a lot, i drained a lot of excess oil out of the RC leg but didnt have time to fiddle with the air leg. stictionwise i think it was great, i mean, it wasnt as plush as a coil fork but there are lots of seals in there that have to break in so i expect it to improve a lot, and its already more compliant than what i had expected in the first place.




weight:
straight out of the box, with tags and sticker covers, 3,17kg.
without stem 2,98.
cut steerer and with correct oil level, i would say its going to be around 2,93kg. thats 6,45lbs.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Did you find it was ramping up too much even with the PAR (bottom out) air chamber empty?

That was my one complaint about the 06 RC2X, it's far too progressive for lighter riders, and having enough compression damping early in the stroke seems to make it impossible to bottom out.

I was hoping the SL might be much more linear (or at least have the ability to be setup that way) but it's looking like I was wrong...
 
J

J5ive

Guest
Interesting. So it looks like the guts would bolt into other 07 888s?
 

eddiegold

Chimp
Nov 25, 2004
25
0
Got mine last week but its already gone off for repair. I store my bike upside down and when i was getting it ready for a ride i noticed a load of oil around the ata knob. A call to the importers revealed that the first few batches had this problem and they would fix it by adding some sort of seal to that area. It apparently only happens when the bike is stored upside down and is only lubricating oil not oil from the damping side of things. Still :disgust1:
 

al-irl

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
1,086
0
A, A
Got mine last week but its already gone off for repair. I store my bike upside down and when i was getting it ready for a ride i noticed a load of oil around the ata knob. A call to the importers revealed that the first few batches had this problem and they would fix it by adding some sort of seal to that area. It apparently only happens when the bike is stored upside down and is only lubricating oil not oil from the damping side of things. Still :disgust1:

How did it ride before you sent it off
 

Yeti

Monkey
May 17, 2005
877
0
yeti cave@the beach
vitox, some yeti love to u man, great post. i m still waiting, i think the distribuitor wants me to kill myself with all this waiting. anyway, could u post what u think the right oil level range is when u figure it out?...and changing the oil level on the rc leg of the sl is it just the same as with a coil spring 888? cheers
 

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
2,936
1
Santiago du Chili
Did you find it was ramping up too much even with the PAR (bottom out) air chamber empty?

That was my one complaint about the 06 RC2X, it's far too progressive for lighter riders, and having enough compression damping early in the stroke seems to make it impossible to bottom out.

I was hoping the SL might be much more linear (or at least have the ability to be setup that way) but it's looking like I was wrong...

i think it can be tuned less progressive, ill give the PAR chamber a shot first, then i think i could remove the volume spacer on the damper side, and finally see if the engagement point of the bottom chamber can be changed, but im pretty sure its just a matter of setup. the overall action of the fork and the weight is so good im really psyched to get it working right.
 
J

J5ive

Guest
Hmm, air wc? Is that pimp or a waste of time? :P

Is the RC side the same as other forks?
 

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
2,936
1
Santiago du Chili
Got mine last week but its already gone off for repair. I store my bike upside down and when i was getting it ready for a ride i noticed a load of oil around the ata knob. A call to the importers revealed that the first few batches had this problem and they would fix it by adding some sort of seal to that area. It apparently only happens when the bike is stored upside down and is only lubricating oil not oil from the damping side of things. Still :disgust1:
sounds like a missing o-ring perhaps?

@yeti
hope you have fingernails left for when the fork arrives!
i have no hard data on the amount of oil, what i did was just to remove oil until i could feel it needed more at the top of the stroke, then add a little bit more, later when the "field agent" (you know who...) reported he could feel a bit of topout when the going got rough, we added some more, all in all i would guesstimate it to be in the 180 to 190cc range. the thing is since the air spring is quite progressive (mind you i havent fiddled much with it at all save for the pictures sake) you can get away with the bare minumum of oil in the damper side, as long as it has enough oil for damping purposes, you are set.
as for changing the oil, its the same only difference is that the footnut is a bit harder to get out since there is no spring to keep the shaft jammed against the lowers (omg will that get censored?) trick is to loosen the stanchion at the lowers and keep it stretched while undoing the foonut btw.
 

go-ride.com

Monkey
Oct 23, 2001
548
6
Salt Lake City, UT
I've been playing around with the 888 SL too. The PAR chamber seems to be a floating piston that separates the main from the par. If you run the par with less psi than the main the floating piston may collapse to the bottom of the chamber. The instructions say not to do this, but I’m not sure if it would damage anything or just remove the bottom out boost. Personally, I find the fork progressive enough to not need the par.

As for lighter riders not getting full travel from the ’06 888 rc2x I have a fix for this, I just haven’t had enough testing time to post it. I broke my wrist a bit ago, but I’m hoping to get some riding in at Bootleg in a couple of weeks.
 
Apr 26, 2004
36
0
As for lighter riders not getting full travel from the ’06 888 rc2x I have a fix for this, I just haven’t had enough testing time to post it. I broke my wrist a bit ago, but I’m hoping to get some riding in at Bootleg in a couple of weeks.
Please tell, as this is starting to drive me crazy...7" from an 8" fork!
 

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
2,936
1
Santiago du Chili
I've been playing around with the 888 SL too. The PAR chamber seems to be a floating piston that separates the main from the par. If you run the par with less psi than the main the floating piston may collapse to the bottom of the chamber. The instructions say not to do this, but I’m not sure if it would damage anything or just remove the bottom out boost. Personally, I find the fork progressive enough to not need the par.

As for lighter riders not getting full travel from the ’06 888 rc2x I have a fix for this, I just haven’t had enough testing time to post it. I broke my wrist a bit ago, but I’m hoping to get some riding in at Bootleg in a couple of weeks.

i had another go at tuning it now and its getting close to full travel in bounce testing, did some slight mods to the innards and now the compliance is pretty much right there with the coil fork, will post when some real world testing has been done. ive got a feeling im going to be friends with this fork.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
i had another go at tuning it now and its getting close to full travel in bounce testing, did some slight mods to the innards
how much do you weigh?
and what did you change internally? i'd be interested in hearing if you can run the par chamber empty without any clunks or issues.

also, how much ls compression do you usually run? on my friend's rc2x, I found the adjuster to work fine, except it compounded the overly-progressive issue even more, and being around the same weight (~65kg) we can only get max 7" travel out of it. There's only so much you can do with oil height like you mentioned, before the cartridge starts starving of oil - so i'm guessing the solution on the SL is running way less par pressure, and maybe a little less normal pressure too.
 

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
2,936
1
Santiago du Chili
how much do you weigh?
and what did you change internally? i'd be interested in hearing if you can run the par chamber empty without any clunks or issues.

also, how much ls compression do you usually run? on my friend's rc2x, I found the adjuster to work fine, except it compounded the overly-progressive issue even more, and being around the same weight (~65kg) we can only get max 7" travel out of it. There's only so much you can do with oil height like you mentioned, before the cartridge starts starving of oil - so i'm guessing the solution on the SL is running way less par pressure, and maybe a little less normal pressure too.

check your pm's
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
sweet, replied.

the other dillemma is the weights - who's right?
vitox = 2980g [6.57lbs]
go-ride = 2858g [6.30lbs]

Sticker covers don't weigh 122g... and that's a significant difference (especially when cheeky guys like me are trying to compare it to the boxxer)... i'm inclined to believe vitox's figure since it's closer to the claim, but I want to believe that it's lighter :D

The real weight was 6.3 lbs. with full length steer tube, axle, and bumpers.
weight:
straight out of the box, with tags and sticker covers without stem 2,98.
 

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
2,936
1
Santiago du Chili
sweet, replied.

the other dillemma is the weights - who's right?
vitox = 2980g [6.57lbs]
go-ride = 2858g [6.30lbs]

Sticker covers don't weigh 122g... and that's a significant difference (especially when cheeky guys like me are trying to compare it to the boxxer)... i'm inclined to believe vitox's figure since it's closer to the claim, but I want to believe that it's lighter :D
well my weight is pretty much the same as yeti's weighed, mebbe go-ride got one from an earlier batch?
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
alls i know is i weighed my new 66sl last friday, 6.85 with axel and decals and the little break housing guide. so ALMOST perfect according to BTI
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
has anyone ever tried filling it with like hydrogen instead of air? id imagine it'd be a bit lighter, but would it feel any different? i mean it should stay the same right?
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
has anyone ever tried filling it with like hydrogen instead of air? id imagine it'd be a bit lighter, but would it feel any different? i mean it should stay the same right?
hydrogen and helium atoms are so small, keeping them sealed under pressure in a fork would be difficult.

Not to mention the weight savings would be smaller than nothing.

Other than that its a great idea:disgust1:
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
hydrogen and helium atoms are so small, keeping them sealed under pressure in a fork would be difficult.

Not to mention the weight savings would be smaller than nothing.

Other than that its a great idea:disgust1:
smaller than nothing? it would make it heavier? wow
 

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
12,690
290
VT
Make sure you fill your tires with nitrogen while you are at it because the 78% in air just isn't enough :biggrin:
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I'm bumping this thread up because I've got one now and have some questions.

I'm running mine permanantly dialed down to 170 to get a certain geo on my bike and have some issues. Rather than not getting full travel, I'm bottoming it regularly with pressures that suit the riding I'm doing.....mostly just rocky dh trails.

I've also got a pretty serious amount of 'stiction' which feels like seals but it's actually gotten worse which makes me think it's something internal. Marzocchi's site sucks for info on servicing these. Vitox or anyone else have any insight? I'm going to pull it apart this week and find out what's in there. Sounds like the rebound side is pretty similar to the coil forks.
 

sbabuser

Turbo Monkey
Dec 22, 2004
1,114
55
Golden, CO
Sometimes air leaks into the upper part of the left leg - unscrew the top cap to release it. For some reason mine did this until it was broken in, and the last time I pulled that cap (to change oil) no air came out.
The fork feels much better after the first oil change.
As for the bottoming, I'm guessing you've also checked your oil levels, right?
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Sometimes air leaks into the upper part of the left leg - unscrew the top cap to release it. For some reason mine did this until it was broken in, and the last time I pulled that cap (to change oil) no air came out.
The fork feels much better after the first oil change.
As for the bottoming, I'm guessing you've also checked your oil levels, right?
I haven't checked squat yet. I don't even know what's inside the air leg. It looks like a closed chamber air cartridge just like every other air fork based on vitox's pics but what and how much oil should be in the air side? Have you messed with the catridge at all or just changed whatever lube oil sits in the air side?
 

al-irl

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
1,086
0
A, A
i have the same problem with my sl. Im running mine at 170 aswell to keep the front end low. Its bottoming out pretty bad and it feels terrible with the pressure they recommend. So not quite sure what to do.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
Jm said:
Yeah, I see that all over the place. WTF? People are that dumb?
Unfortunatly, yes, they are. I had a guy up at the shop asking about filling his tires with helium to save weight. I explained why it wasn't a good idea. Part of my reasoning was that the weight savings were completly negligible. His reply? "But what if you ran really high pressures? Then you'd have less rolling resistance, and there'd be a lot of helium in there, so the weight savings would be bigger." :bonk:
 

ElTORO

Monkey
Jun 27, 2006
369
0
With all the other Tards!!
Kidwoo - What Settings are you using??? & what's your weight??

I run fully lowered and was haveing the same issue's but I got mine pretty dialed in. Well after messing around for a long time.

All put the exact #'s down after work but I think I'm running the sugguested pressure for a 100lb 12 year old. I'm 175 with no gear to so???? In nasty rock sections my dust seals are stupid close to the Min but I don't bottom out.

Edit: I forgot, my friend has the same fork. He felt mine and was like "Damn that feels way smoother then Mine" So we changed his air to match. His didn't even feel close to mine after. It's like all the forks are different, really weird.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Kidwoo - What Settings are you using??? & what's your weight??

I run fully lowered and was haveing the same issue's but I got mine pretty dialed in. Well after messing around for a long time.

All put the exact #'s down after work but I think I'm running the sugguested pressure for a 100lb 12 year old. I'm 175 with no gear to so???? In nasty rock sections my dust seals are stupid close to the Min but I don't bottom out.
Yeah the reccomended pressures are garbage. I think I'm around 70psi in the PAR and about 50 in the main chamber. Any higher in either and it felt almost rigid.

Get back to me when you check yours. Thanks man.