[haggis]

Struck a crisis point - Been riding my Banshee Scream with shuttles and lovin it. Without the shuttles though, my riding aboard my AC1 blows; The stability just ain't there to open 'er up with confidence on the steep downs...
Need recommendations on a slack head-angled bike that can be ridden for at least an afternoon without having to donate a kidney. Seems most 'trailbikes' basically lack DH stability. Is a light DH ride the only solution? What do you guys ride when there's no shuttle/chair to take you up the hill?? I have learned that weight is not the greatest concern as the Banshee pedals supoibe...

 

[Joey]

If weight isn't really a consideration, a 24 Bikes Le Dude may fit the bill. 5'5" to 7" of travel and perhaps the slackest angles I've seen outside of a DH bike.

 

[Jm_]

if stability is your primary concern, I don't think it's just the headtube angle, there is more to it than that.

Some freeride and trail bikes like the ellsworth Id have sky-high bottom bracket heights, around 15". Other trail bikes like the turner 5 spot and my fxr are down around 13.7", that makes a huge difference in stability. You probably also want something with longer seat stays, at least 17". The new turner 6-pack is going to have 17.1" stays, should be fairly low, so it may be a good bike to wait for.

DH bikes have higher BB heights than XC bikes usually, but they have a longer wheelbase too, so when you decrease the wheelbase and raise the bottom bracket, as is done with a lot of freeriders and some trail bikes, you can definitely get something that is not nearly as stable.

Headtube angle, top tube length, bottom bracket height, wheelbase and chainstay length should all be contributers here, so you'll probably need to pick the bike that has most of these qualities in your favor, definitely not a bike that has just "one" or "two" of these...

 

[mobius]

I don't think the HA is stability as JM said. I ride a 2004 Heckler and took it to snowshoe and was doing race speed runs on it just fine. And it was with a fox vanilla on it. Listen nto JM

 

[Repack]

JM also beat me to it- its BB height, wheelbase... they all work together.

 

[YETI187]

you may also want to check out the specialized enduro sx

 

[Jm_]

you may also want to check out the specialized enduro sx

Explain why a short slalom/jump type bike is going to be very stable at speed. It's going to be severely lacking in some of the areas mentioned above.

 

[The Kadvang]

Explain why a short slalom/jump type bike is going to be very stable at speed. It's going to be severely lacking in some of the areas mentioned above.

Maybe he meant the new Enduro SX trail? But otherwise, the combination of short chainstays (and therefore a short wheelbase), a steep headangle, and short travel are going to combine into a lack of stability at speed.

 

[MikeD]

Maybe get a BigHit, an old RFX, or an Azonic Saber?

A lot of the things that make your DH bike so enjoyable to descend on are in direct opposition to those things that make a trailbike...

 

[haggis]

Diferent strokes for different folks - My Banshee is hardly DH specific with it's short wheelbase and for me, short top tube. Although it wouldn't be the best DH racer's choice, it works grand for freriding and the rocky courses we ride here. And as Jm was saying, jump-bikes can rocket too; my Ruckus flies most DH courses, faster than the AC1 unless it's real rocky.
I was thinking more Yeti AS-X seeing as I want something more all-day yet equivocal to the Banshee.

 

[Kornphlake]

The problem with slack angles on an all day bike is that they require a greater amount of effort to keep the bike tracking straight up hills than steeper angles. If you're looking for something with roughly the same angles as your banshee you're going to find something that pedals up hill roughly as well as the banshee.

 

[buildyourown]

Take a trail bike and put a long fork on it. Instant slack head angle and longer wheel base. Use a fork like a zokes with ETA, and you can still get the front end down enough for long climbs. I have a hardtail with a 5" Z1 on it. While it is definitly not a DH bike, it handles pretty damn well.

 

[biggins]

my turner xce kills trails and it is 4 in the back and 5 in the front. oh and its for sale......... did i mention thta already?

 

[biggins]

oh yeah, try running a little shorter stem.

 

[bighitfsr]

The bighit comp in the 5.5" X 67deg travel setting is low and slack.
Mine is set up like this and its almost as slack as my DH bike (sherman firefly up front).
The frame is a little heavy for general trail riding though.

 

[MMcG]

Take a trail bike and put a long fork on it. Instant slack head angle and longer wheel base. Use a fork like a zokes with ETA, and you can still get the front end down enough for long climbs. I have a hardtail with a 5" Z1 on it. While it is definitly not a DH bike, it handles pretty damn well.

I have a Z1 on my Belair and I really like it in this set up. It took me a few rides to adjust, but I rode on Sunday and cleaned some tough switchback climbs and step ups without a problem and I can just let the bike rip on descents now! I really like this 5" in front 4.5" in the rear set up on the Balfa now. Good stuff.

 

[Guess?Who]

Sell the AC and get a better freeride bike. Saber, Asx, Gemini, etc.

 

[haggis]

Sure, angled as the Banshee it might steer like a milk truck uphill but hopefully not weigh like one too... Basically a lighter longer Scream is in order. The AC1 has a 35mm stem and it still descends as teenagers nuts compaired to the Banshee which, in whilst we're on an analogy run, goes down like a Thai hooker- FAST.

 

[MikeD]

Well, perhaps you should get a Chapparal if you're so happy with the Scream?

 

[haggis]

I might just do that MikeD - They are stiff-arsed bikes.

 

[lonewolfe]

I can't believe nobody on here mentioned the perfect bike for our fellow Monkey. The Ellsworth Joker! It is fairly light, 6-7" of travel depending on the year. Slanck angles even running a 5" fork, fairly long chainstays and a longer top tube. If you are 6' or taller I know a guy has a really sweet frame for sale on here that is a large size. Flat black with silver rear end. He goes by the name of Gumby and has it listed in the frames section of Buy and Sell. Check it out unless you are shorter than 6'.

 

[Stiff]

Andy,

I'm thinking you're looking for something to ride up Apsan and Achasan, Nutcracker, Middle Finger, Bug, etc and generally rip up technical Kimchitrack?

Perhaps an Iron Horse 7point7 when it comes out? I'll let you know how the DW platform pedals compared to the BH when my Sunday factory w/ Breakout+ arrives in the fall. The Sundays are quite long and apparently pedal superbly....

Looks like I won't get to Korea this year.

-S

 

[haggis]

Long time coming but I have a sveltly-dressed Evil Sovereign as my newly-wed. Rides sweet - I dig the tight ass on it. My devolving to a 5 inch Vanilla front shock is a shocker though - Really begs for a 6" up front to keep up with the Ruckus with 2001 triple clamp Junior T...
New rides rule.

 

[banrider]

Long time coming but I have a sveltly-dressed Evil Sovereign as my newly-wed. Rides sweet - I dig the tight ass on it. My devolving to a 5 inch Vanilla front shock is a shocker though - Really begs for a 6" up front to keep up with the Ruckus with 2001 triple clamp Junior T...
New rides rule.

What about your Scream??are you still riding it??cheers!!

 

[mandown]

consider a bottlerocket? depending on how you build it, you could get as light as 35lbs and have a reasonable rig. mine is in at 41lbs and i have it set with a double chainring. i run it with a 36VAN and it is good for speedy dh stuff. it is a bit big for tighter trails. a smaller fork would fix that. i ran a Pike on it for a few weeks and it was a much better trail bike. consider something with a travel adjust that will take you down to about 120mm. any lower than that and the bike doesn't feel good on the downhill. however about 130mm feels great on the tighter trails.

consider the sizing of the frames. i am 6'1" and should have gone with a medium for a "flickable" bike. the large size feels much more like a stable dh bike. it also has enough seat tube and top tube for XC pedaling.

 

[joelsman]

canfield balance
yeti 575,
transition preston
giant reign
get a longer top tube and run a short stem too

 

[dropmachine]

You ride a Giant AC and are wondering why its crap? You do know that AC stands for Absolute Crap right?

Maybe the ****ty ride comes from the incredible flex coming out of the back end, or long stays, or strange angles, or terrible bobbing, or any other the other problems plaguing that bike.

 

[Bicyclist]

He just said that he found a bike and then you're recommending more. Maybe reading a thread before posting in it is a good idea.

 

[trailhacker]

Or maybe paying attention to the dates of the posts...

 

[skinny mike]

Or maybe paying attention to the dates of the posts...

yeah, i didn't realize it was an old thread until i saw mmcg talking about his belair.

 

[SirChomps-a-Lot]

I was thinking more Yeti AS-X seeing as I want something more all-day yet equivocal to the Banshee.

Do it.

Full length seatpost, relatively steep seatpost. Those are the key issues for making any bike XC-able. I keep up with XC guys on mine all the time, I do all day epics, and I never have to back down from a drop because I'm worried the bike can't take it. The only change I make from xc to dh is tires.

Allow me to pimp this here. (again)

 

[haggis]

Yes SirChomps - The Banshee is a lifer. She runs the steeper/narlier Korean trails with purrfectly good trail manners, and bad manners when the leash is slackened...
As for the AC being crap DropMachine, far from it my friend. Reason I got the AC (part from it being unpassable deal) was it's chameleon nature - I've seen these frames ride 12' to flat on tarmac and come out smiling yet the XC-come FR riders get brazen woodys aboard it too. She's been sat atop my workstand for the past year being parted out because it lacks that spring lamb vitality in it's bones. Simply put, it's a tad boring. My Sovereign on the otherhand fits the bill sweetly. Spirited yet stable whilst hugging sharp sweepy trails tighter than J-Lo's g-string. Not too fly for any white guy... Now if I could dig deeper for a Fox 36...

 

[spacemanspiff06]

kona coiler of some vairtion. the 07s are slack and stable but still pretty pedal friendly. 65.6 HA 17.3 CS, yeah, it likes speed and steep
http://www.konaworld.com/bikes/2k7/COILAIRSUPREME/index.html

 

[DHS]

sorry for the crappy pic. but this is a great slack xc bike for me...

 

[tgreathead]

I love my Azonic Saber.

 

[Stray_cat]

Has anyone mentioned the Transtion Bottle Rocket? I do alot of my aggresive trial /freeride (ugh!) work on a Sinister Splinter MX which has adjustable geo. But these are kinda hard to come by.

 

[William42]

has anybody noticed that he started this thread in 2004 and has already found a bike?

....

 

[tgreathead]

has anybody noticed that he started this thread in 2004 and has already found a bike?

....

Others can use the information too, that's why its a forum instead of direct email

 

[pdawg]

Others can use the information too, that's why its a forum instead of direct email

Slack trail bike in 2004 probably had a 70 degree head angle. This information is outdated.

 

[Kanye West]

Slack trail bike in 2004 probably had a 70 degree head angle. This information is outdated.

Agreed. With an adjustable fork (140mm - 180mm) my 6" bike is 64 degrees at it's slackest. VERY stable now that I put that fork on and I can do pretty much equal DH pace runs as I can on my big bike unless I am on the roughest stuff out there. I don't know what the HA is at when I have it at 140mm, but it suits just fine for climbing even if not 100% pure XC geometry.