[buildyourown]

Suspension Setup
So, I've always been under the impression that when setting up a bike for a novice, you should run the preload on the firm side and the damping on the slow side. Mainly because you can assume that a novice rider will be running into things and casing landing and you don't want them being bucked by fast rebound.
I've also been under the impression that the oposite was true. That as a rider became smoother and faster you could soften the suspension ans speed up the damping. That an expert rider would learn to control a fast rebound.

However, I've noticed several local pro/semi-pro bikes being setup very firm and slow. I've also noticed that some of them are running much higher tire pressures. Their rational is that a firmer/slower setup will stay above the bumps and skip over them instead of falling into them and that harder tires will roll faster.

I've always run my tires as low as I could without flatting and my suspension as soft as I could without bottoming.
Anybody try both?

 

[JRogers]

I think it's wise to set up a novice rider's bike with slower rebound because he doesn't need it faster (which can lead to deflection and getting knocked around more) whereas a faster rider is likely to be hitting more things faster so needs the suspension moving faster to compensate.

I also think that the whole "it'll skip over bumps instead of falling into them" argument is bogus. Think about it...just seems like it wouldn't work. If I'm slamming through a rock garden, I want a soft setup so my momentum carries over the bumps and isn't being lost to the rocks. I doubt setting it up really firm would do it. Think about hitting a curb on a bike with very stiff or no suspension and then with one set up soft...which one do you think will get through faster/without launching you over the bars?

The harder tires roll faster thing has some merit, but many times you can chalk up the "rolling faster" thing to feeling like you're moving faster because of less traction, less control and less damping. Same with smaller vs. wider tires- smaller ones sometimes just seem faster. Not saying to always go big size and low psi...just that doing the opposite isn't always better.

Like you, I setup my suspension as soft as I can without bottoming or having it pedal like crap and put my tires as low as possible without flatting or risking a roll-off or the set up getting all squirmy.

 

[amateur]

To a certain extent, it's personal preference and riding style. Stiffer suspensions are easier to get off the ground and easier to deflect momentum rather than absorbing it like a softer setup. As for the tire pressure, they're usually going faster so it provides some flat resistance and also gives a slightly smaller contact patch which gives is a little less rolling resistance.

 

[dhkid]

I also think that the whole "it'll skip over bumps instead of falling into them" argument is bogus. Think about it...just seems like it wouldn't work. If I'm slamming through a rock garden, I want a soft setup so my momentum carries over the bumps and isn't being lost to the rocks. I doubt setting it up really firm would do it. Think about hitting a curb on a bike with very stiff or no suspension and then with one set up soft...which one do you think will get through faster/without launching you over the bars?

The harder tires roll faster thing has some merit, but many times you can chalk up the "rolling faster" thing to feeling like you're moving faster because of less traction, less control and less damping. Same with smaller vs. wider tires- smaller ones sometimes just seem faster. Not saying to always go big size and low psi...just that doing the opposite isn't always better.

Like you, I setup my suspension as soft as I can without bottoming or having it pedal like crap and put my tires as low as possible without flatting or risking a roll-off or the set up getting all squirmy.

the staying on top of the bumps thingy is true. one way to know for sure is ride your bike down some stairs, once you get to a certain speed, you will feel like you are just riding down a smooth ramp and you accelerate better. thats coz your suspension doesn't have enough time to "recover" for the next step so its skips.

as for tires and presure, the way i look at is that the higher the pressure, the smaller the contact patch. hence there is more pressure on each individual knob of the tire, that way it digs into the terrain. giving better traction on loose/muddy conditions. ppl say that lower pressures give better traction applys to roots and rock where a the tire can better follow the contour of the terrain .

 

[Cant Climb]

To sovle the mystery of sag, rebound speed and tire pressure you have to time yourself on a course. Have a course that is your benchmark and time yourself on it throughout the year and with different set-ups, goemetry, or whatever....

This is where you will find what really works fo you.

The clock dont lie.

 

[kidwoo]

Suspension soft so wheels get out of the way hauling over stuff and tires firm both for flats and also to keep from rolling over sidways and losing steering precision. Sticky compound tires at slightly higher pressures than the old days make me happy.

As far as the guys I ride with who race competively at a pro level, I think we all have around the same tire pressures, but one guy in particular runs his suspension stiffer than most. It can be argued that there's less loss of momentum going into compressing suspension but there's also notcibly less tracking going on. Like everything, It's going to depend on priorities. I use suspension to compensate for my hobbit height, taller guys can manipulate the bike more and use body english in lieu of the squish.

 

[SuspectDevice]

It is really hard to form any baseline, as so much is dependent on rider style and preference. Lots of really fast riders ride bikes that are setup horribly, that defy years of convention and common sense.

 

[tomvan72]

Most Suspension companies these days spend many hours developing their products and have taken alot of the guess work out of set up. If you really pay attention to the recommended sag set up, you can go from there. I used to think I like my set up one way. A shock tuner set up my fork one day and at firdt was weird, then awesome. He used the recommended guide lines. This of course is just one opinion. and a good starting place. many companies will assist you on the phone.

 

[Zutroy]

Most Suspension companies these days spend many hours developing their products and have taken alot of the guess work out of set up. If you really pay attention to the recommended sag set up, you can go from there. I used to think I like my set up one way. A shock tuner set up my fork one day and at firdt was weird, then awesome. He used the recommended guide lines. This of course is just one opinion. and a good starting place. many companies will assist you on the phone.

The reqs from the manufatures are a good starting point, but not usually the best if you really trying to go for speed, there are other things that some into play...mainly riding style...do you jump things alot..do you plow into sections and power them, do you lean on the front or back more when it gets rough. That's why people like push and marzocchi ask about riding syle and things like that when they tune your gear. There really is no one right way, it's all personal. Me personally i ride soft and slow settings, but then i plow over things and don't jump alot.

 

[Jm_]

Soft and fast.

Makes it feel bouncy at slow speed, keeps the wheels glued to the ground at high speed and allows the shock to keep up with the fast bumps.

 

[wydopen]

i was in the same boat as you in regards to tire pressure, i would run em as low as i could. recently i started running a bit more pressure and i think maxxis tires work better a little on the firm side imo

 

[tomvan72]

The reqs from the manufatures are a good starting point, but not usually the best if you really trying to go for speed, there are other things that some into play...mainly riding style...do you jump things alot..do you plow into sections and power them, do you lean on the front or back more when it gets rough. That's why people like push and marzocchi ask about riding syle and things like that when they tune your gear. There really is no one right way, it's all personal. Me personally i ride soft and slow settings, but then i plow over things and don't jump alot.

The team that I manage is a pro level team and we are riding Fox.All of my riders and myself ride based on their recommended settings. We have a mix of riding styles and it still works the same. With new technologiy you can run it all soft but if you smash stuff the comp damping will handle it. if you ride smooth, same thing. The technologyis cool.

 

[bballe336]

Personally I like the suspension to feel soft at the top of the stroke and pretty stiff at the end. I also like a medium speed compression with a slower rebound. I think thats what works best for me but suspension is a pretty personal thing, everyone likes a different feel.

 

[tomvan72]

You are correct. Once you have a general idea, then you fine tune.

 

[Red Bull]

I used to run stiff and fast, then moved to stiff and slow, now i am at soft and fast and it feels better than what I have run before... (Am also moving from a Demo to a DHR with the last set up...)

 

[MOTODH]

Soft and fast.

Makes it feel bouncy at slow speed, keeps the wheels glued to the ground at high speed and allows the shock to keep up with the fast bumps.

definitly agree. I like the suspension to keep up when the bike gets going fast

 

[Jm_]

definitly agree. I like the suspension to keep up when the bike gets going fast

I see reoccuring things when I try other people's setups at the shop (and in other places, but I run into the most bikes at the shop).

People seem to set their rebound going really slow, off a curb, or whatever. That's not horrible in itself, but is that going to accurately reflect what happens when you hit a similer sized bump at 20mph? IMO no, and even though I'm not light (180-200lbs) I can't see how people can run more than a few clicks (usually around 1/3rd of total usable) of rebound. When the shock gets any slower, it packs up at speed and rides like crap. I don't think the "push down on the fork and watch how fast it rebounds" method words either. If I can "feel" the rebound holding the fork back in this situation, it's usually too much.

 

[Lofty]

Shock tech has progressed so much over the years that finding the appropriate suspension tuning for your riding style and trail conditions is more than just soft and fast/ hard and slow etc. I used to have a Vanilla R, and a Vanilla RC which really just provided basic tuning capabilities that did not adapt well to trail conditions, jumps stunts etc. Shocks like the 5th, Swinger, DHX and others allow you to tune your suspension to provide a different feel through specific portions of the shock stroke. I like mine soft and fast on the top end of the stroke to soak up all the bumps at high speed then I setup the middle to bottom end of the stroke very stiff for bottoming resistance. This combination provides a very compliant suspension that allows you to rip through the technical downhill, hit a big double without worry of being bucked and take the big drop without bottoming.

 

[Thrillkil]

I like mine with moderate stiffness, and moderate rebound.

 

[Acadian]

I like to spend tons of $$ on a 8"/9" DH bike but set it up so I only use 3"

 

[Jm_]

I like to spend tons of $$ on a 8"/9" DH bike but set it up so I only use 3"

Me too, but I just sag my 6" bike so that I get about 3" of positive travel. I'm not sure how it works, but it does.

 

[Kntr]

I run my rebound as slow as I can.... right before you get the "clunk, cant keep up, feeling." Also, know as packing.

I usually only play with the compression. I like a lot of compression when I race or ride faster trails. It pedals better and takes big hits.

For everyday riding, I run less compression. It feels softer and I really don't care how well it pedals.

 

[johnbrittain]

i personally like to run with a bit of sag, a couple inches of really soft compression, and i like my shock set to ramp up real fast on the last few inches of travel. my rebound is setup sort of fast, not too fast to buck me if i case, and fast enough to keep up with bumps at higher speeds. this is only my preference, and i also have 10 inches to work with which i think is perfect when they're setup like a 7-8inch bike with a couple inches of sag.

 

[Repack]

M1 w/ 500# Ti spring/5e, no preload. Shiver with 1 extra firm, 1 medium, <1/2 preload. 225# rider.
I used to be of the same opinion but have recently changed my thinking. I used to think that if I only bottomed a couple of times on a race run that my setup that it was OK. My feeling was that soft suspension would allow the bike to corner better b/c of a lower center of gravity and more sensitive suspension.
After changing to stiffer springs I realized that I could get the same ride but with expending much less effort trying to be smooth. My suspension used to feel like a turd pre-load wise. There was no point where the suspension would want to settle. I have come to find that when running what I now see as the correct pre-load the suspension always settles to a certain point.
Now my bike rides much higher in the travel. I have a MUCH easier time on high-speed rough stuff. Sucking up bumps is much easier when you are higher above them.
I run my F C damping a little on the slow side to prevent bottoming and the rear rebound a little slow to prevent getting bucked, but nothing too extreme. Overall I like it better on the quick side.
Just my "quick" .02

 

[Bicyclist]

That's how I like my suspension, kinda stiff and kinda fast.

 

[konahucker43]

i think the softer the better. moved from a stiffer ride to a softer suspension and i noticed my arms didnt get as tired and i could go faster. i also do bottom out on the occasion but that doesnt really bother me

 

[Repack]

i think the softer the better. moved from a stiffer ride to a softer suspension and i noticed my arms didnt get as tired and i could go faster. i also do bottom out on the occasion but that doesnt really bother me

Sounds like you went from too firm to just right whereas I went from too soft to just right.

 

[Jm_]

Sounds like you went from too firm to just right whereas I went from too soft to just right.

Well, the other part of "soft and fast" is that I don't bottom out. Without the shock technology of today a lot of sag and no-bottoming would not be possible, but it is because of this that I can run it this way. I wouldn't accept bottoming, even occasional bottoming can severely damage a frame, because it could be a "light" bottom or a "hard" bottom, and you can't really plan ahead too much with these things. Sometimes the slow speed impacts are the ones that can really screw up things, and sometimes you hit a rock hard enough at a high speed, it just depends.

 

[Repack]

Well, the other part of "soft and fast" is that I don't bottom out. Without the shock technology of today a lot of sag and no-bottoming would not be possible, but it is because of this that I can run it this way. I wouldn't accept bottoming, even occasional bottoming can severely damage a frame, because it could be a "light" bottom or a "hard" bottom, and you can't really plan ahead too much with these things. Sometimes the slow speed impacts are the ones that can really screw up things, and sometimes you hit a rock hard enough at a high speed, it just depends.

I think I said somehting confusing. For me, when my setup was to soft I wouldn't really bottom out that much or hard b/c of how hard I was working. Now that I have the correct springs I stay much more relaxed which makes me ride better/faster/smoother with less fatigue than before. Going through high speed stuff I feel like the wheelbase has grown an inch or 2 but b/c the geometry stays ~the same the bike corners the same.