What do you guys think from a DH perspective. If they banned all bikes, XC bikes and everything, and maybe even sightseers do you think there would be enought protest to reopen it?
Come to the Mt. Wilson shuttle, I will be disseminating some info that I am just about done preparing. For those who were kind enough to send me their e-mail addresses or have PMed me, I am just about done with what I think you could call my "proposal" to the DH/FR community in So Cal. I will be e-mailing you all very soon.merrrrjig said:What do you guys think from a DH perspective. If they banned all bikes, XC bikes and everything, and maybe even sightseers do you think there would be enought protest to reopen it?
From my past encounters........ Hell Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!merrrrjig said:Do you guys think that next year they wont have anything? That what I expect they do, either they have DH or nothing at all, I dont think they will get enough business
Yup. dhtahoe has good info.dhtahoe said:Just from someone who has help run a bike park... No way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Summer programs make very little or no money. Not to mention it cuts into alot of OTHER maintenance done during summer. Lift maintenance and inspections are a bitch to get complete in time for the next winter. Throw in a delay such as a chair getting used all summer long and it makes it nearly impossible. Resorts such as N* only do it because someone in upper management likes the summer program because they ride a bike too. If that guy were to go... I would sure be worried. The SS thing is gone and your are just going to have to deal. When Squaw Valley dumped it's bike park not even Intrawest (part owner of Squaw, Mammoth and Whister) could change their mind. And those guy know how good a bike park can be. They set the High-mark!!!
merrrrjig said:What do you guys think from a DH perspective. If they banned all bikes, XC bikes and everything, and maybe even sightseers do you think there would be enought protest to reopen it?
Another good post, Don.Ciaran said:I think you guys are partially missing the point here. Even if SS slowly allows DH bikes on the chairs, or if we can "trick" them with long travel single crowns, and lighter bikes, there is still the MAJOR issue of the illegal trails. The US Forest Service is not going to take lightly the issue of repeatedly using and making illegal trails. And the Forest Service owns the land that SS is on. They operate by permit. The FS can, and will shut down the summer operations if they feel that it is too destructive to the forest.
And how many of you will be or were satisfied with the legal trails that SS offered? Be honest now.
....
edit
....
So, like, which trails were actually illegal? Or rather, which trails are legal? Cause I know I'm supposed to be empowered as a consumer and stick it to the man by not going there, but I could still see some value in a day on Darkside, Fallline, and even Pine Knot. Not that they're the best trails in the world, but there's a lot to be said for being able to ride *all day* and being able to escape the summer heat. I promise not to ride in a DH/race manner.Pegboy said:I think if people are actually going to try to make their bikes legal to ride illegal trails or even "face" trails in a DH/race manner, we as a group will completely jepordize the possibility of a future re-opening. I also think this has a greater significance on the sport nation wide than just Southern California. I for one will stay away, grumbling and pissed off, until things change which I realize could be never.
I do have the numbers but they are not right in front of me. The GF has done the research on this one and I'll have to ask her for the numbers. But as a very general answer off the top of my head: there are lots of skiing accidents, and a few lawsuits but skiing makes enough money cover this, the insurers look at skiing differently than they do us. There's some other stuff too, but I am still researching it all.dma528 said:Many good points have been made but there is still one statistic that I have not come across yet. That belongs to the topic of insurance; what are the insurance claims from a summer of DH or biking in general compared to a winter season of skiing / snowboarding. That coming from insurance being one of the main reasons for the closure, I know that there are many other reasons that went along with it but I can?t imagine that no one has ever gotten hurt skiing<?> Another one of my complaints that I have heard this year from the members (employees) of TBB is that they are out of DH all together; yet they have been the timers at Sea Otter for one and at least 2 other events that I have been to this year that had DH racing<?!?> And yah they timed the DH runs.
For all my personal rants I still hold dear to my heart the thought that they (TBB, SS, and the FS) will grow up stop crying and realize that cyclists are not the devil no will we destroy the earth.
Peace,
-Adam
dma528 said:Many good points have been made but there is still one statistic that I have not come across yet. That belongs to the topic of insurance; what are the insurance claims from a summer of DH or biking in general compared to a winter season of skiing / snowboarding. That coming from insurance being one of the main reasons for the closure, I know that there are many other reasons that went along with it but I cant imagine that no one has ever gotten hurt skiing<?>
Sorry I can't quote you any numbers, but the general idea is that with downhill skiing, the risks are spread across much larger numbers of folks, say a couple hundred per day versus several thousand per day, yet the likelihood of serious accident per skier is lower than the risk per biker.
As i recall darkside was illegal and also the lower trail that Fall Line dumped you on if you went straight.Rabie said:So, like, which trails were actually illegal? Or rather, which trails are legal? Cause I know I'm supposed to kill Pegboy in the face.
I never rode them personally, but I saw plenty of riders going off in the "other" direction than I was after getting off the lift. I tried to follow them a few times but they would wait till I lost interest or they would take off really fast looking behind them, presumably to make sure I didn't follow.Bobby Peru said:I would still like to know where these "illegal" trails were!?!? I rode SS many times and never heard about them or did I see anyone ever off the main trails. I really think that aspect of that argument is absurd. Does anyone know of the said "illegal" trails?
Did you not read the thread or my post? If you want specifics, you'll need to talk to someone in person or at least in private...not like it matters much now...Bobby Peru said:I would still like to know where these "illegal" trails were!?!? I rode SS many times and never heard about them or did I see anyone ever off the main trails. I really think that aspect of that argument is absurd. Does anyone know of the said "illegal" trails?
Obviously you didn't read mine!MikeD said:Did you not read the thread or my post? If you want specifics, you'll need to talk to someone in person or at least in private...not like it matters much now...