[jacksonpt]

I just found out my wife is taking our daughter to Sesame Street On Ice tomorrow for a few hours, so I'm going to try to get in a ride. I've got 3 sets of tires in the garage... any tips on which would be better in the snow?

- WTB Velociraptors
- Conti Verticals
- Ritchey Zmax

All are basically the same size - 2.25-2.35

The trails I'm riding get a lot of XC ski use, so the snow could be pretty well packed down, perhaps even icy. On the other hand, we did get about 16" of snow Tuesday into Wednesday, so it might be all fresh powder.

Oh, and it's all XC singletrack.

Thoughts?

 

[johnbryanpeters]

The Velociraptors at 35 PSIG, although none of the three will buy you Jack Sh1t on ice.

J

 

[splat]

I'd go down to 20 PSUI, but your still going to be doing a lot of walking.


and don't ruin any Double track XC tracks , that will really p iss off teh XC skiers

 

[Kntr]

Gazzo studded tires

 

[jacksonpt]

Gazzo studded tires

um, I guess I missed the part where I asked for other suggestions.

 

[jacksonpt]

I'd go down to 20 PSUI, but your still going to be doing a lot of walking.

why is that... because of the lack of studs, or because none of them are a good options for snow?

I've always ridden during the summer, never on studs, and never had any problems. But if the snow is unpacked today, this will definitely be the deepest snow I've ridden in.

*sigh*... maybe I should just stick with the road rides until the snow disappears...

 

[T-Blazer]

As a user of studded tires, I can tell you this.
GOOD : any icy conditions
hard packed snow on roads
BAD : snow riding on trails
UGLY : xtra weight

I used velociraptors A few week on the TNUA ride. 42 psi . Worked good in the snow.
cheers

 

[jdcamb]

The best?? Some are good for some things, yet suck at others. For firm hardpack and bombtrack (footstep addled singletrack) Conti Vetical pro is a all around good performer. For loose powder with hardpack below and mashed potato snow a Conti Survival pro just absolutely rocks. Conti Escape is pretty good rear performer in hardpack styrofoam conditions but we see very little of that lately. IRC Mythos XC as a rear tire is a pretty good all around performer but packs up and doesn't clean, yet still works when packed up most of the time, very weird but cool. Huthcinson Mosquito is a excellent bombtrack performer because it cleans well and hold a off camber line awesome. As a front tire you can't beat a Speci S-Works Enduro pro especially tubeless. WTB tires can't be run tubeless so I can't comment on them. I know very little about Ritchie tires. Studded tires work well but if you ride with others they suck because they emulsify the snow and take away the center line of the hardpack crown. They make most hardpack trails one time use only so if you ride them on the main trail you ruin it for others and the advantages are minimal anyways. On ice they can't be beat however. Very little of my winter time riding is on ice so.... Thin tires (2.1 or less) at high pressure work just as well as high volume tires at low pressure IMO.

And don't ruin any Double track XC tracks , that will really piss off teh XC skiers

Huh? They love us here. We groom the trails for them and stomp down new ones. We even race them. We do downhill runs called freshies which after we are done with them are useless. The skiers lines often match ours and they then pack down our freshie runs and make new trails. Between the skiers, the dog walkers, the trail runners, the snowshoers, and us we have a great little community trail system. Everyone is very friendly and we often stop on the trail and BS with each other.

jdcamb

 

[splat]

why is that... because of the lack of studs, or because none of them are a good options for snow?
.

Has Nothing to do with studs , The Lower pressuse makes a bigger foot print which is helpfull in the snow.

 

[jdcamb]

The Velociraptors at 35 PSIG, although none of the three will buy you Jack Sh1t on ice.

J

How much of your riding is done on ice? Maybe 200/500' combined over a ride.

 

[splat]

How much of your riding is done on ice?

famous last words !!!

See http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110937&highlight=sunday+belmont

Just ask Ben-o the mistake of taking off his studded tires before this ride because "there won't be much Ice "

 

[jacksonpt]

Has Nothing to do with studs , The Lower pressuse makes a bigger foot print which is helpfull in the snow.

Yea, I understand the PSI/footprint thing... I meant why will I still be walking a lot... because of the lack of studs or the selection in tires?

 

[Kntr]

um, I guess I missed the part where I asked for other suggestions.

All 3 tires you mentioned are crap in snow and ice. Good Luck.

 

[jdcamb]

All 3 tires you mentioned are crap in snow and ice. Good Luck.

I'm gonna call you on this... Have you ever rode a Conti Vertical in the snow or on ice?

 

[splat]

Yea, I understand the PSI/footprint thing... I meant why will I still be walking a lot... because of the lack of studs or the selection in tires?

Nope Because Riding through unpacked Powder is Very HARD!!!

 

[Kntr]

I'm gonna call you on this... Have you ever rode a Conti Vertical in the snow or on ice?

No, I only run studded tires. I have seen so many people think they can run non-studded tires and get hurt. For winter riding, studded is the only way to go.

You cant tell me the Conti Vertical is as good as a studded tire. The Conti might be ok on hardpack snow and slush but not on ice and riding in the winter, you will always come upon ice.

Here in Montana, the enitre trail can be ice with some patches of snow. People still hike in the winter here and pack the trails changing the snow to ice. Im just one of those people that is always OVER prepared.

 

[splat]

No, I only run studded tires. I have seen so many people think they can run non-studded tires and get hurt. For winter riding, studded is the only way to go.

You cant tell me the Conti Vertical is as good as a studded tire. The Conti might be ok on hardpack snow and slush but not on ice and riding in the winter, you will always come upon ice.

Here in Montana, the enitre trail can be ice with some patches of snow. People still hike in the winter here and pack the trails changing the snow to ice. Im just one of those people that is always OVER prepared.

Jim , in this case I have to agree with Kanter

hey Kanter what Kind of trails you got up ther in Montana ? ( winter and Summer )

 

[Kntr]

We have it all. I ride a Foes Fly for XC/FR/DH and all day epic XC. We have lots of XC but around here the trails are steep and rough so a big bike or long travel trail bike is needed. When you want to FR we have lift access at Fernie, Kicking Horse, Sun Peaks, and Panarama, which are all within 5 hours. Nelson and Rossland are close too. We have a few local spots with great FR. There are lots of shuttles too since we have a lot of lookout towers for fire season. There are XC trails everywhere. I bet there are 200 miles plus within an hour of driving. A lot of the XC trails border Glacier Park so the scenery is spectacular.

This winter there was only about 6-8 weeks where you couldn't ride on a trail, usually there is 3-4 months. In the winter we go to Beacon in Spokane to ride since they dont get snow there very often. Its about 4 hours away.

Our trails get so packed with ice there is no way you could even ride a trail win non-studded tires. People snow snow on a lot of the trails to so that packs the snow all winter. Id like to see someone on skinny non-studded tires ride Deadmans Ridge mid winter...... dangerous in the winter but fun. Its a 20 mile loop with a great DH all the way back to the trailhead. Ive done it with regular tires a few years back but never again.

 

[johnbryanpeters]

How much of your riding is done on ice? Maybe 200/500' combined over a ride.

Miles, depending on season. Snake Mountain doubletrack can be a river of sheet ice, from white to black, esp. in late fall and early spring.

I got into studs because I got suckered too many times - fast downhill sweeper in a couple of inches of snow, hit a frozen puddle under the snow, and down hard. I got tired of constantly having a hematoma the size of a golf ball in my left cheek.

This year, the studs have been less helpful, except on the gravel roads.

J

 

[jacksonpt]

Well, I went.

The places where the skiiers had packed down the snow was damn near impossible to ride - no side-to-side traction. So I basically stuck to the unpacked powder. Man, if there's any such thing as a no-fun ride, that was it.

The best was the places where the snow was only about 6" deep. The worst was went it was hub deep. I started out on the Velociraptors at 15psi. They did ok and I rode one loop on them. Then I changed over to the Veticals at the same PSI, and rode another loop. They also did ok. I didn't walk all that much, but I spent a lot of time with 1 foot on the ground getting myself lined back up with the trail.

All told, it was a hard ride. Definitely more of a workout ride than a pleasure ride. Did about 10 miles is just over 2 hours.

 

[Kntr]

Hey, at least you went out. If you are going to ride in conditioins like that, get studded tires. You wont believe the difference.

If price is not an option the 2.1 HAKKA WXC300 is sweet. Its only 650g with aluminum studs and folding bead!!!!

I like the 2.3 Freddys Revenge but at 1240g its heavy!

A great compromise is the 2.1 EXTREME 294 at 950g or the 2.1 HAKKAPELIITTA W240 at 880g.

All these tires are Nokian. http://www.suomityres.fi/bike/winterspecs/index.htm

 

[jacksonpt]

Hey, at least you went out. If you are going to ride in conditioins like that, get studded tires. You wont believe the difference.

I definitely plan to at some point... but considering the time of year, I just don't feel like dropping the money on studs. We usually get one big snow storm in march (we had one last week), and then the warmer weather starts creeping in... so I'm thinking my snow rides are going to start coming to an end pretty quickly.

 

[Phresh]

How much of your riding is done on ice? Maybe 200/500' combined over a ride.

Yeah, but it only takes two or three feet of it to wipe out.

I keep studded tires (Nokian 296) on one bike and regular rubber on another all winter. If I think there is any ice at all I'll put up with the extra weight and go with studs for the added security and traction. If it's 100% snow I'll usually go with regular tires because the traction is just about as good while being much lighter.

 

[jdcamb]

Yeah, but it only takes two or three feet of it to wipe out.

I keep studded tires (Nokian 296) on one bike and regular rubber on another all winter. If I think there is any ice at all I'll put up with the extra weight and go with studs for the added security and traction. If it's 100% snow I'll usually go with regular tires because the traction is just about as good while being much lighter.

We usually ride almost 100% snow. I have run studded tires and in our conditions they offer no distinct advantage. I have noticed that some folks using studded tires around here actually have a psychological advantage running them. If you think they help... then they do. On either hardpack, powder coated hardpack, or soft conditions studded tires will wallow just like a regular tire. Plus you can't run them tubeless. Tubeless at low pressure works the best for me. Once you start spinning out it matters very little what your running. To imply that studded tires make all the difference.... Well thats just silly. I will defer to those who I know actually ride in this stuff......jdcamb

 

[Kntr]

Studded tires do make all the difference in the world. You run your Conti Vertical and Ill run my Hakka 300s and Ill take you on some trails here in Montana. Id bet ya $1000 you wont be able to keep up. If your up to the challege let me know. We can do some XC trails or some shuttles. What ever you want.

 

[jdcamb]

Studded tires do make all the difference in the world. You run your Conti Vertical and Ill run my Hakka 300s and Ill take you on some trails here in Montana. Id bet ya $1000 you wont be able to keep up. If your up to the challege let me know. We can do some XC trails or some shuttles. What ever you want.

I'm sure they make all the difference in the world for you on your trails. I am not likely to be in Montana anytime soon. Inversely I doubt Rochester NY in the winter time is not on your short list of destinations. I can't afford a set of Hakka 300's for a couple of weeks of riding. The Contis however will get me through the winter and carry me into the spring.....jdcamb

 

[Phresh]

To imply that studded tires make all the difference.... Well thats just silly. I will defer to those who I know actually ride in this stuff......jdcamb

I didn't imply they made all the difference, in fact, I pointed out there is only marginal difference between studs and regular when you are only talking about riding in snow. Ice is a completely different story. A place like Rochester which gets snow upon snow upon snow is likely not a big threat for icy trails. I can't speak for MT, but here in MI you best be watching out for the hard stuff they call ice when you ride in the winter.

But don't take my word for it, you should defer to someone that really knows...like someone who rides year round and maintains both set ups...hey wait a minute, that's me!

P.S. When I'm not riding Nokian 296 I'm riding Conti Vertical Pros...

 

[splat]

Phresh !!!!!

How the Hell are you !!!!!

Long time no talk! when is the next time you coming east ?

 

[Phresh]

Phresh !!!!!

How the Hell are you !!!!!

Long time no talk! when is the next time you coming east ?

I'm doing great Splat. Nice little forum you got here. I just joined up a few weeks back. I'm still toiling in MI but if all goes well I could be returning to NE come summertime. If nothing else we'll be doing the VT summer vaca thing and making a swing down south to see the parents who now live in Dover. Would love to hit the Nam again...man, I sure do miss the trails back east! I'll give you shout when it gets a little closer. In the meantime, I'll catch you on the airwaves. I still lurk on the Nemba site too from time to time. Say hi to Evil for me.

-hijack over-