[for_sale]

For all those going to snowmass!

" A ten-dollar per day lift pass will be required for practice days and will be available at registration. Riders must be registered and have a number plate and lift ticket on the bike to practice. "


A ten dollar per day lift pass?! Are these people out of their minds? I think you have to pay to use the lift in Idaho too.

 

[Tully]

Ah, the beauty of shuttle trucks...

 

[DrewS]

I think you have to pay to use the lift in Idaho too.

i don't remember buying a lift ticket last year for idaho

 

[biker3]

tis true I was at snowmass for the blast the mass MSC and they were charging the same price. You can get away with sneaking it if you walk about half a mile up to the second lift since they don't check tickets up there but if u want to go up from the very bottem you have to pay....

 

[John P.]

Big Bear NCS was the same way this year, and that was one of several reasons why I chose not to race there.

--JP

 

[Juano]

It's not the promoter's charging the fee it's the mountain itself. do you think norba pays that much for the venue? This is how the mountain makes some money too, yeah it sucks but what can we do.

 

[biker3]

i wouldnt call it a ripoff. We racers must take in the acount of the cost of running lifts, paying people to load bikes (not neccasarilly needed but a nice luxery) and insurance and liability kinds of things. Its very expensive to run a race and that is why it is very expensive to race in them. Im not saying its right but no one has to come and race there is the bottem line.

 

[Damn True]

I didn't pay for a practice day lift pass at Idaho last year.

But Big Bear sure as hell charged out the wazoo for it.

 

[John P.]

It's not the promoter's charging the fee it's the mountain itself. do you think norba pays that much for the venue? This is how the mountain makes some money too, yeah it sucks but what can we do.

Did you happen to see what the mountains charge for pit space? Snowmass/Aspen especially . . . it's a big reason why our truck won't be there. Believe me, between pit fees, lodging, food/drink sales, parking, etc., if the mountains aren't making money, there's some serious mis-management going on.

--JP

 

[mtnkilla]

Did you happen to see what the mountains charge for pit space? Snowmass/Aspen especially . . . it's a big reason why our truck won't be there. Believe me, between pit fees, lodging, food/drink sales, parking, etc., if the mountains aren't making money, there's some serious mis-management going on.

--JP

Yeah I saw that and it is ridiculous but I got to try and see both sides. Either way I think its a crapshoot or at least both sides feel that they have been given the short end of the stick and are lossing out.

Also I think that the mountains that hosts the races lose more than they gain in hosting these events because of how norba and the promoter's manage the races. Plus there isn't that much money running through racing at the moment. The mountain resorts make the real money in the winter so all summer most just want to break even and get to the winter with their coat still on their back. (sorry for the pun) Whistler and other's are the exception.

 

[Repack]

It seems like all the NCS mountains, with the exception of Snowshoe, are doing there best to break the cell phone and bank industries' stranglehold on the hidden fees market. So f-ing lame. The mountains have a right to earn some cash, but pissing off riders isn't a good start. Mt Snow can lick my sweaty ____ bag. They charge $10 per day per person to sleep on a gravel parking lot with doorless showers and a massive flood light that shines down on all the tents. They have no security, and this year ther were a bunch of redneck a-holes ripping through the parking lot at all hours at insane speeds in a dualie and no one could do anything to stop it. Nothing like hearing a pickup drifting sideways by your tent. Nothing But the worst insult is the "All money put towards trail maintenance" sign where you pay $10 to park. Their trails are a joke. They havn't been touched in years.

 

[ChrisKring]

It seems like all the NCS mountains, with the exception of Snowshoe, are doing there best to break the cell phone and bank industries' stranglehold on the hidden fees market. So f-ing lame. The mountains have a right to earn some cash, but pissing off riders isn't a good start. Mt Snow can lick my sweaty ____ bag. They charge $10 per day per person to sleep on a gravel parking lot with doorless showers and a massive flood light that shines down on all the tents. They have no security, and this year ther were a bunch of redneck a-holes ripping through the parking lot at all hours at insane speeds in a dualie and no one could do anything to stop it. Nothing like hearing a pickup drifting sideways by your tent. Nothing But the worst insult is the "All money put towards trail maintenance" sign where you pay $10 to park. Their trails are a joke. They havn't been touched in years.

Actually, I saw the truck incident that you are talking about. Was it a medium duty dually with some insane horsepower? Security was sitting right next to the bathrooms when it happened. The cops rolled in with 5 minutes. I didn't hear what happened after that except that it was the tow rig for a manufaturers team. Agreed though, it was stupid and could have killed people.

As far as pit fees for teams. They are getting insane. The only place we paid for pit space this year was the US Open. It was reasonably priced and we got to pit within spitting distance of the lift. It made bike tuning super easy since we didn't have to ride a half mile to the pits (LIKE SNOWSHOE). Snowshoe and Mount Snow pit fees were over two times what Mountain Creek was. At Mount Snow, we set up a bootleg pit just outside of the paid pits in the main parking lot.

Really, they should make pit space free. Supercross did this because the team rigs/pits make the event more bigtime. This in-turn brings in more people with more $$$.

As far as charging $10 for a lift pass: I would pay $20/day if I got to freeride on non race course trails all day. I hate dropping a ton of $$$ to practice for 2 hours on a backed up course. Mountain creek had it dialed this year. I would easily go back there again. All that I can say about snowshoe this year was the 4X was awesome and the DH was better than going to work.

 

[DrewS]

Schweitzer is charging $10 a day for practice on Thursday and Friday. booooo

 

[Jeremy R]

It seems like all the NCS mountains, with the exception of Snowshoe, are doing there best to break the cell phone and bank industries' stranglehold on the hidden fees market. So f-ing lame. The mountains have a right to earn some cash, but pissing off riders isn't a good start. Mt Snow can lick my sweaty ____ bag. They charge $10 per day per person to sleep on a gravel parking lot with doorless showers and a massive flood light that shines down on all the tents. They have no security, and this year ther were a bunch of redneck a-holes ripping through the parking lot at all hours at insane speeds in a dualie and no one could do anything to stop it. Nothing like hearing a pickup drifting sideways by your tent. Nothing But the worst insult is the "All money put towards trail maintenance" sign where you pay $10 to park. Their trails are a joke. They havn't been touched in years.

Amen. I HATE paying to park ANYWHERE I go! That is silly and should be included into our race fees.
And to say that money went into the trails is a joke.
Here is an idea, have somebody mark the course that has actually ridden a bike before. They made long stupid straightaways with no turns.
I got tired of steering around all the bodies layed out of the course.
I think their wood sections are so sweet.
They need to start the course from last years starting point.
Do the ledges, then take in the woods all the way to the bottom.
That would be sweet. Mt. Snow has the potential to have the best DH courses ever.

And those turd places like Big Bear charging per day on the lifts is absurd as well. It was just another reminder of how much I was paying to ride a roped off fire road. :nuts:

But yeah, hidden fees are the worst no matter where you are at.

 

[bpatterson6]

You spent Thousands on your Bike,
and you are Belly aching over an additional 10.00 to practice?
Just pay it and quit whining.

 

[Transcend]

Did you happen to see what the mountains charge for pit space? Snowmass/Aspen especially . . . it's a big reason why our truck won't be there. Believe me, between pit fees, lodging, food/drink sales, parking, etc., if the mountains aren't making money, there's some serious mis-management going on.

--JP

durango will be way more fun anyways!

 

[bizutch]

I have to take sid with riderson this one. The resorts that host local races aren't making money off these events. National venues are DEFINITELY. Hotels, restaurants, ameneties all hit hte jackpot come a race week. Filled up hotels at a winter resort during the summer. There is NO need to charge an additional fee for the lifts. As for pit space, the reason the venue charges those fees is because no one is explaining to them that the space isn't being used as "retail space" during the event. THey're not gonna let you sit at their resort with what they think is a sales booth for 5 days without charging you rent. The companies that suffer all those at the event NOT using it as a retail opportunity. They're just providing rider support and advertising their brand.

 

[Crank-E]

Let me give you some insight into MTB racing and promoting. First many promoters are losing money to put on races. Why? Because they love our sport. As a group they choose to ride less to allow you to race and ride. Firing up lifts costs money but not nearly as much as the 10,000 man hours necessary to provide you a NMBS event, but of course you will probably be volunteering at the next one you attend right? When did you last give back to our sport? Sorry, I don't think buidling pirate trails is really going to count. The resorts that host events and the promoters that run them want EXACTLY what you want, for the sport to rock and the events to go off. The events that you were crying about have two of the sickest DH trails in the world. They would not be there if there were not races there. I would give my lefty to be able to go ride Mt. Snow today. Put on a race, get involved, be a part of the solution.

 

[Repack]

You spent Thousands on your Bike,
and you are Belly aching over an additional 10.00 to practice?
Just pay it and quit whining.

Its not about spending money, its about being nickel-and-dimed to death and getting hit by hidden fees every time ytou blink. Like camping at Mt Blow, for instance. Its a gravel lot. Thats it. And they charge $10 per person per night. When you go to a National Forrest Service sight here in New England, you get a QUIET, wooded sight for $18/night, and they allow 8 adults and 2 vehicles. Its about getting what you pay for.
I might get flamed for saying this, but I would rather see $60/event on the reg form than show up and see the signs at Mount Blow trying to get me to believe that they spend any money on their trails.

 

[Full Trucker]

First off, let me say that I am not trying to start fights or single bizutch out, he just made some points that I'd like to respond to as objectively as I possibly can.

...National venues are DEFINITELY (making money off these events). Hotels, restaurants, ameneties all hit hte jackpot come a race week. Filled up hotels at a winter resort during the summer. There is NO need to charge an additional fee for the lifts....

While the resorts hosting NMBS events are seeing revenue from lodging, restaurants and amenities, just the cost of running a lift completely offsets any "profit" they might see. How many lift tickets need to be sold to offset the cost of a $600 per HOUR lift? Let's see, 300 DH riders times 2 days of practice probably covers one hour of running a lift. Also factor in that often, the lifts being run (ran? operated?) at a race, be it regional or national, or often not in operation throughout the rest of the summer, making it a larger financial liability for the resort as it's not bugeted in the daily scheme of things.

...As for pit space, the reason the venue charges those fees is because no one is explaining to them that the space isn't being used as "retail space" during the event. THey're not gonna let you sit at their resort with what they think is a sales booth for 5 days without charging you rent...

There are actually separate fees for vendor vrs. expo space at the nationals, based on the assumption that a "vendor" will have products for sale and teams are there for tech support. That being said...

...The companies that suffer all those at the event NOT using it as a retail opportunity. They're just providing rider support and advertising their brand.

Most companies gladly pay money to advertise in magazines, TV, radio, and the internet. Why shouldn't they be charged to advertise in THE MOST DEMOGRAPHICALLY TARGET RICH ENVIRONMENT POSSIBLE for their product? I do commend the companies that come to the races and offer rider support, without them races would not be possible.

Its not about spending money, its about being nickel-and-dimed to death and getting hit by hidden fees every time ytou blink...

I do agree about wanting to know the cost of things upfront, and commend the promoters of the Snowmass National for putting the $10 lift ticket on the website, not hidden, out there for everyone to see. Although I didn't attend the Durango National last year, my roommate did and told me he paid for a lift ticket to practice. I just checked www.durangofinals.com and found no mention of it for this year. Does that mean I won't be paying for a practice lift ticket this year? Or does it mean I'll get slapped with it when I sign up?

...but of course you will probably be volunteering at the next one you attend right?

I sure will. Here's a link if anyone else has a little time to give back:

http://www.snowmassnational.com/volunteer.htm

 

[b stevens]

600 dollers an hour? where's that number come from?

 

[Full Trucker]

600 dollers an hour? where's that number come from?

My intention wasn't to get in a pissing match, but rather to demonstrate the astronomical costs that go along with providing top-quality events for the riding/racing community at large to attend.

But, if you must know, $600/hour is the actual cost of running the gondola at Vail, figure obtained through a local DH advocacy group in Summit County from meetings they have had with the Vail Authority. I am assuming that running the TWO lifts required to reach the top of the course at Snowmass would be a similar dollar figure, especially after counting fuel costs, maintenance, and operator salary.

Heck, at $8/hour liftie wage, throw 4 lifties at each station (2 loading stations and 2 unloading) for an 8 hour day, and right there is over a grand PER DAY just for the labor.

Again, my apologies if I am perpetuating a rant-fest, but it's important to me that racer's know what goes into putting on an event, be it local, regional or national. Until you've REALLY crewed for a day, you can't possibly know the long hours, small staffs and tight budgets that go into rallying 1,000+ riders through 5 disciplines for 4 days, along with dealing with land managers, resort staff, bad weather, marketing for an event (because if no one shows up, you're out a job!) and then on top of ALL of that, MAKING SURE THAT EVERYONE GOES HOME REASONABLY HAPPY at the end of the weekend.

 

[buildyourown]

600 dollers an hour? where's that number come from?

That does sound high but the actual figure IS bigger than the layman would think. Our local promoter doesn't do any lift acces races accept for Schwietzer because of the costs. It draws an enormous amount of power just to start the lift up. Something like $1500 just to turn the thing on. Renting a couple of Ryder trucks starts to sound like a really good deal. I stopped going to nationals cause you just don't get much racing for your money.

 

[John P.]

The events that you were crying about have two of the sickest DH trails in the world. They would not be there if there were not races there. I would give my lefty to be able to go ride Mt. Snow today.

LOL. Have you actually ridden the Mount Snow course? I can think of at least 5 other resorts in the NORTHEAST ALONE that have better trails than that retarded course they put up this year (yeah! let's ride straight down the damn mountain at 500 mph). If you think that's 'world class,' come out here sometime and do a local race at Tenney, Plattekill, Killington, etc. (where you pay $40 to race; get free lift access Friday, Saturday, and Sunday; can pit/park for free; and the organizers at least seem to be able to break even). You'll no doubt be surprised.

--JP

 

[Full Trucker]

...come out here sometime and do a local race at Tenney, Plattekill, Killington, etc. (where you pay $40 to race; get free lift access Friday, Saturday, and Sunday; can pit/park for free; and the organizers at least seem to be able to break even). You'll no doubt be surprised...

Having only attended Nationals at Durango 2 years ago and Deer Valley 3 years ago, I cannot speak for any of the East Coast courses, regional or national. But my limited exposure to National (NMBS) racing is that the rider can often get "more bang for the buck" racing locally or regionally. The trade off for racing Nationals is more exposure (for racers trying to progress their sponsorship), more competition (for riders looking to progress their ability), and a more "big-time" feel I guess (for people looking for a good time, and Aspen has plenty of that).

I'll make no bones about it and tell you I am volunteering for the Snowmass National, and I'll tell you that I'm doing it because I love the sport and I love racing and I'd like to see GOOD things come out of the national series (NMBS). I want to help make the change that sees National level racing be as much fun, as well organized, and basically as KICK-ASS as the regional events we have here in Angel Fire NM, Telluride, Moab, Keystone, Crested Butte and every other stop that ever has or will be in the Mountain States Cup series. These races are probably along the same lines as the local East Coast races, with great competition, killer courses, and good value to the racer. Heck, the promoters are even able to make enough money to put BACK into the racing to make the races better and better each season!

But I can also tell you that (in my limited experience) it sure seems like there are a WHOLE lot more chefs in the kitchen with the NMBS, and a lot more people/groups/whoever (NORBA, resort, local land managers, and a veritable ashload of others) that are looking to take a bite of the pie. And when that happens, who does it effect? The promoters bottom line? NORBA's pocketbook? Nope. It effects the racer. But the racer can help... please... As I said before, it takes people... RACERS... to make races happen. 4 hours of your time is worth more than you could ever imagine.

http://www.snowmassnational.com/volunteer.htm

EDIT: John P. - I do understand it's hard for small companies to make the trip out here, pay for pit space/hotel/food/blah blah blah. Shoestring budgets make the cycling world go 'round, and although I'm bummed you and your crew can't be out here in full force, it's understandable. Hopefully you guys can make it for Durango or maybe the U.S. Championships or something like that. Good luck, rock out and keep kicking @ss!

 

[for_sale]

Not 10.00 but 30.00. And when I pay 55.00 to race, I don't wanna pay 30.00 more to ride up the chair!

 

[Full Trucker]

Not 10.00 but 30.00. And when I pay 55.00 to race, I don't wanna pay 30.00 more to ride up the chair!

Not $30 but $20, since the lift ticket is covered for Sundays' Pro final and Pro DH practice is only on Friday and Saturday. I know, I know, it's only $10 and you still have to pay $20 and you pay $55 to race and you don't want to incur the additional $20 to practice I get it. Unfortunately, it is the 'fact' in this matter that there will be a $10 per day lift ticket for practice. the other option would be that the resort sends the bill for running the lift DIRECTLY to the promoter, and instead of losing a projected couple thousand on putting on a National, the promoter is UNABLE to put said National on entirely, leaving you, the racer, without a race to race at.

I'm not arguing that paying for a lift ticket is 'slightly inconvenient' especially when most racers are not being paid to race (i.e. big ol' sponsorship dollars) and are travelling a long way to compete. It's a drag. But the alternative of NOT having races is FAR less appealling than coughing up $20 for a practice lift ticket.

I'm personally not only paying $20 to practice + entry + lodging + food + whatever really expensive bike part I'm going to break, but I'm NOT going to be racing the Super-D in order to give back a little to the sport, and hopefully by doing so I'll make YOUR race a little better. Watch for me out there course marshalling the Pro DH on Sunday, I'll be wearing the cowboy hat and the sh!t-eating grin because riding bikes, my friend, is what I love to do.

 

[John P.]

Hopefully you guys can make it for Durango or maybe the U.S. Championships or something like that. Good luck, rock out and keep kicking @ss!

Yep. We'll be at Durango for sure. We knew we could only feasibly attend one of the CO events, and Durango pit space and lodging was A LOT cheaper. Coming from the guy who pays all the bills over here, believe me when I say that it's all about bang-for-the-buck . . .

Glad to hear you're volunteering. I personally built and taped off several of the race courses at Sunday River, and it was very rewarding work. I hope your experience is similar.

--JP

 

[Jeremy R]

Put on a race, get involved, be a part of the solution.

We do, we are, and we are trying to be.
And that gives me full right to b1tch over the little things that I see that can really improve the races that I go to.
Hidden fees p1sses off racers which keeps them from showing up next year.
Having to pay to park, pisses off spectators and racers and hurts the turnout as well. Most of us already get the late fees tacked onto our $55 entry fee, because we don't want to register in advance in case we get jacked up beforehand.
The reason I picked on Vermont is because I love the place. And like I said, I think they could have the best course on the planet with a little bit of effort. But when they are charging $10 a day for 4 days to park with a sign up that says that the money goes to the trails. Then seeing that they have not touched the trails up there in years, well, that's just pants.
And it is sad to see, attendence go down year after year in a sport that I love and have been doing for over 10 years.

 

[Full Trucker]

I don't think anyone is trying to piss anyone off, every promoter I know and have spoken with is WELL AWARE that a pissed off racer is not one that will return. I also don't think promoters/resorts are trying to "hide" fees and other things from racers. In fact, I just found this for every one that is making the journey to Schweitzer next weekend, from the Round and Round website, promoters of that race:

Chairlifts will open 15 minutes prior to beginning time of training and/or races, and close 15 minutes prior to closing time of training and/or races. Chairlift tickets are not included in entry fees for practice on Thursday & Friday. Tickets are available for purchase onsite for $10/day.

EDIT: so should I start a thread in the DH forum called "Schweitzer Rip Off" and basically discredit everything that those fine folks in Idaho are working to achieve as well? Heck no. My point? Again, no promoter is trying to 'hide' fees, and every promoter I know if is trying to make racing better and better every year, and they do that by NOT riding their bikes, and pulling their hair out, and working NORMAL jobs in addition to putting in THOUSANDS of man-hours sifting through red tape, digging dirt, and thanklessly toiling in the hot summer sun to make our lives better. Did I mention it's thankless? I used to DJ and announce at regional events in Colorado. Let me tell you, the number of people that thank you for putting on an event is FAR LESS than the number of people that walk up to you and b!tch for no good reason./EDIT

While Sunday River, Plattekill, Angel Fire, Durango Mountain Resort (local series, not the National), Winter Park and Northstar are able to INCLUDE lift tickets in the cost of entry, keep in mind that it is usually those RESORTS that are putting on the race, not a promoter in conjuction with NORBA in tandem with the resort along with whoever else.

And also, I just checked out Plattekill's site, and the fee for racing DH is $50, while the entry fee for XC is $35. Granted, you get an online-pre-registration discount, but for the amateur racer going to Snowmass National: $35 entry plus $10 lift ticket for 2 days of practice with the THIRD (race) day lift ticket included comes out to $55, only $5 more than a Plattekill race.

And it's a National, where you can watch some really kick-ass competition of the World Cup level go down. Not saying that the racers aren't rad at Plattekill or Northstar or wherever, because they are, but it's an added bonus you can check out Minaar and Peaty and Graves and Gracia all in one weekend... those of you in -land that have your pro license may not be impressed, but as an amateur racer it's a cool thing to watch Minaar double up some huge gap or Peaty rally a rock garden.

Alright, I blather. Apologies all around. At least I didn't hit you with taht infernal volunteer link again!

 

[b stevens]

how about this at snowmass, $32.78 for superD and you get NO practice, seems a bit much

 

[Full Trucker]

how about this at snowmass, $32.78 for superD and you get NO practice, seems a bit much

Actually, the Super-D course is open ALL weekend for practice and inspection. However, please keep in mind that the Super-D course descends down the majority of the XC climb... so rallying down it during ANY of the XC race events would be highly unadvisable, and may lead to your number plate being pulled.

EDIT: I do like how at least HALF of your 4 posts to Ridemonkey have been to complain about a National. That's rich. Regardless, I'm assuming since you know the EXACT dollar amount of that event, that you are signed up and attending? Well, I for one welcome a fellow midwesterner (I'm originally from Indiana) and I hope to help put on a killer event for you guys. See you out here! /EDIT

 

[Jeremy R]

And also, I just checked out Plattekill's site, and the fee for racing DH is $50, while the entry fee for XC is $35. Granted, you get an online-pre-registration discount, but for the amateur racer going to Snowmass National: $35 entry plus $10 lift ticket for 2 days of practice with the THIRD (race) day lift ticket included comes out to $55, only $5 more than a Plattekill race.

And it's a National, where you can watch some really kick-ass competition of the World Cup level go down. Not saying that the racers aren't rad at Plattekill or Northstar or wherever, because they are, but it's an added bonus you can check out Minaar and Peaty and Graves and Gracia all in one weekend... those of you in -land that have your pro license may not be impressed, but as an amateur racer it's a cool thing to watch Minaar double up some huge gap or Peaty rally a rock garden.

Alright, I blather. Apologies all around. At least I didn't hit you with taht infernal volunteer link again!

I like your attitude. You seem to be about positive change, and that is what we all want. I hope your race is off the hook!
The fact that the entry fee at Snowmass is only $35 makes up for the daily lift fees if you ask me. $55 for a National race is a fair price for sure.

 

[Full Trucker]

I like your attitude. You seem to be about positive change, and that is what we all want. I hope your race is off the hook!

Aw snap! Thanks for the props, and I am all about the positive change, but I may have opened my big mouth a little prematurely...

The fact that the entry fee at Snowmass is only $35 makes up for the daily lift fees if you ask me. $55 for a National race is a fair price for sure.

$35 is the cost of our regional races, the National will be $45 for amateur classes, plus lift tickets, etc. My apologies on that one guys... I'll fess up when I make a mistake. I DID just check the Durango Finals site, and it seems that $45 is the reg fee for that race as well. It may be a registration fee dictated by NORBA or something. I know that pit space/expo space/vendor space fees are the same for every venue in the NMBS, or at least are supposed to be. Maybe this is the same sort of deal?

At any rate, I am still hoping that the Snowmass Natty just goes OFF. We raced in Telluride this past weekend on the World Cup course from '02, and as SUPER SICK as THAT course is, tons of racers were still saying that they liked the course at Snowmass MUCH better...

Can't wait to see people out here, it'll be fun!

 

[Transcend]

LOL. Have you actually ridden the Mount Snow course? I can think of at least 5 other resorts in the NORTHEAST ALONE that have better trails than that retarded course they put up this year (yeah! let's ride straight down the damn mountain at 500 mph). If you think that's 'world class,' come out here sometime and do a local race at Tenney, Plattekill, Killington, etc. (where you pay $40 to race; get free lift access Friday, Saturday, and Sunday; can pit/park for free; and the organizers at least seem to be able to break even). You'll no doubt be surprised.

--JP

I agree, the mt snow course was pretty F-in lame. "Hay guys, no turns, let's try and kill everyone!".

Don't forget bromont. Free tech space AT A NATIONAL EVENT, sick course (one of my favorite courses in north america, bar NONE. I have ridden in enough places to know). Free lift access for 3 days, including about 18 hours practice. Fruit, juice and energy drinks at the finish. Free camping in the far lot if you want it.

Oh and yes, they MAKE money on this event, according to the promoter, a substantial amount. As much as i hate to say it, they ran one pretty damn good event.

 

[Transcend]

how about this at snowmass, $32.78 for superD and you get NO practice, seems a bit much

It's a national, that is the nature of super D. That is life.

Hopefully they will ditch all these retarded events in the next year and go back to DH, XC, ST and DS. Enough events to satisfy all but the freakiest, and enough practice time so that no one gets screwed.

 

[Full Trucker]

Don't forget bromont. Free tech space AT A NATIONAL EVENT, sick course (one of my favorite courses in north america, bar NONE. I have ridden in enough places to know). Free lift access for 3 days, including about 18 hours practice. Fruit, juice and energy drinks at the finish. Free camping in the far lot if you want it...

Bromont? Isn't that in a Communist country or something? I mean, you've got socialized medicine, what's the big deal having free pit space?

Fully kidding, mang!

Unfortunately, I think bringing Bromont into this conversation is like comparing apples to oranges. Bromont isn't part of the NMBS, or the U.S. I'm not saying that the NMBS or racing at the National level in the U.S. isn't without it's problems, but it chaps my hide when someone singles out ONE particular race and b!tches about something that is pretty standard across the series (i.e. $10 practice day lift tickets, cost of tech/expo space, etc.)

As Jeremy R noticed and anyone that knows me knows, I'm all for making positive change in the racing scene WHEREVER I live, and I truly believe that complaining only adds to the existing issue(s). Volunteering, crewing for a day, shovelling dirt for a 4X track, etc. are the way we make better racing all around.

Pedal to the People,
Evan

 

[ChrisKring]

Let me give you some insight into MTB racing and promoting. First many promoters are losing money to put on races. Why? Because they love our sport. As a group they choose to ride less to allow you to race and ride. Firing up lifts costs money but not nearly as much as the 10,000 man hours necessary to provide you a NMBS event, but of course you will probably be volunteering at the next one you attend right? When did you last give back to our sport? Sorry, I don't think buidling pirate trails is really going to count. The resorts that host events and the promoters that run them want EXACTLY what you want, for the sport to rock and the events to go off. The events that you were crying about have two of the sickest DH trails in the world. They would not be there if there were not races there. I would give my lefty to be able to go ride Mt. Snow today. Put on a race, get involved, be a part of the solution.

Check the links in my signature, I do put on races. In fact, I lost money on a race yesterday. But it was a good time so it was worth it. In addition, I took 2 practice runs and 2 race runs the whole weekend. It's killing my finishes to be sitting in registration all day on Saturday. Sure we have our team to help, but we had a few issues that I was not comfortable in letting anyone else handle.

Again, I will restate what I said earlier, I would pay more that $10 if I got to freeride all day. For myself and the rest of our team the entry fee is the small part. Add up the travel $100 - 400 per person (east coast or west), Lodging ($100 / person), Food ($50) and the extra $10 isn't so bad if you get more than the regular 2 hours of practice. That's why I didn't have a problem spending money at Big Bear or Mountain Creek. Big Bear practice was long and Mountain Creek had the place open for freeriding with your race entry. The cost per run down the hill was way cheaper at Mountain Creek.

I do have a problem with getting bent over for $500+ for a 10 x 20 spot to park the trailer and set up the tent for our team. We aren't selling anything. Just promoting our sponsors and wrenching for the team and other's that need a hand. At Mountain Creek, I tuned at least 10 Fifth Elements for people that had them set up way wrong. Mountain Creek was $250 and the pit location was great.

In summary, I know promoters need to at least break even. They should make some cash too. Look at what you can do to get the racers the most amount of riding for their $$$.

 

[Transcend]

Bromont? Isn't that in a Communist country or something? I mean, you've got socialized medicine, what's the big deal having free pit space?

Fully kidding, mang!

Unfortunately, I think bringing Bromont into this conversation is like comparing apples to oranges. Bromont isn't part of the NMBS, or the U.S. I'm not saying that the NMBS or racing at the National level in the U.S. isn't without it's problems, but it chaps my hide when someone singles out ONE particular race and b!tches about something that is pretty standard across the series (i.e. $10 practice day lift tickets, cost of tech/expo space, etc.)

As Jeremy R noticed and anyone that knows me knows, I'm all for making positive change in the racing scene WHEREVER I live, and I truly believe that complaining only adds to the existing issue(s). Volunteering, crewing for a day, shovelling dirt for a 4X track, etc. are the way we make better racing all around.

Pedal to the People,
Evan

truckster, while it may not be relavent as it isnt on the nmbs event calendar i believe it is relavent due to a few reasons.

namely:

1- way less racers, just as much lift $ to run (brand new quad, 6 employees on it).

2 - a parking lot for tech space at a canadian national usually costs $ as well (albeit an assload less then say...west virginia)

3- they make a TON of money at this event...while catering to racers and making even the slowest sport rider feel like a pro by treating them with the respect they deserve....the respect you owe to a PAYING CUSTOMER.

they know where their bread is butterred.

 

[bizutch]

it all boil down to the marketing abilities of the promoter.
I say this fromthe standpoint of being a race promoter myself.
If you're GOOD, and I mean REALLY FRICKING SAVVY, you can make money regardless of the event. It takes a strict budget and most of all...."Creative Financing".
You find a way to get all your stuff either donated or sponsored. Number plates, food, feed zones, water, drinks, prizes, awards, trophies, t-shirts, etc. If you are really intelligent marketing person and plan well in advance, you can get all the sponsorship meny to pay for the entire event.

But let's be honest, most of us don't have the creativity, background, time, etc.

A guy in Florida puts on a full series of events that he markets very smartly and it is his full time job. It's the SERC series...all XC and it pays darn good too. He has a system, he works it and he cashes in.