Some of the restaurants are owned by Snowshoe, like The Junction and Cheat Mtn Pizza. Foxfire, the Village Bistro, etc. however are not.
Snowshoe update
- Thread starter T-Pro
- Start date
How far in advance should one book a hotel room for the races ?
i'll tell that to my empty wallet.
i rarely eat restaurant food.
it's not cost or nutrition effective.
so when i go there i'm spending more per meal than i normally do.
so that IS a cost travelers factor in.
that place has more rooms available than any mt. bike weekend could ever fill up.
but the choice places next to the lift i'm sure go quick.
Whistlepunk...'cough'....
I believe he's referring to the fact that SS doesn't make any profit from certain restaurants (in most DHers cases, the Firfefox) above and beyond their rent so SS doesn't stand to gain/lose food money off our attendance.
PowerAde ponied the payout, not Snowshoe.
That would make sense - I figured that. Snowshoe probably came close to a break even on the races last year even including the lodging and food.
Trevyn, we all appreciate all the work you do at snowshoe and for our sport. I really enjoyed coming to all the races last year and riding the rest of the park too. Happy to have something lift accessed within 5 hours. I know the mountain has to turn a profit on the bottom line, i just think that the racers are getting the short end of the stick here.
Upper management needs to be made aware that for most of us Sunday is a wasted day as far as riding. We get a short practice to get in a few runs then a race run and then most people have to drive home to go to work the next day. Paying for a full day lift ticket makes sense on Saturday for racers and a race fee is of course fair as well.
Maybe racers could have a choice: The lift ticket on Sunday could be discounted ($15) or you can ride on Friday for free if you pay the full price for Sundays ticket??? I would think that senior management would like the Friday idea because people who could afford it would stay an extra night and they would rent empty rooms out. This way racers would at least get a little more affordable option and your numbers may be better then previously based on how many people aren't coming to any races from this post.
Option 1:
Saturday lift $37
Sunday lift $15
Race Fee $25
Total $77 ($22 savings)
Option 2:
Friday Lift $0
Saturday lift $37
Sunday Lift $37
Race fee $25
Total $99
Does anybody agree with me here as to this adding some value to people who want to ride more and saving others maybe enough for some extra gas money to get to the race or am I just plane nuts??????????????
Naylor, your boss know you're on here...?
With my luck probably. If I don't get a couple more high profile clients soon it won't matter
lthumbsdown:
Those are still the most expensive races I'll have done. I say NO. They would have to payout the top 10 and lower the fee much lower for me to hit them up this summer. There is a race on the east coast almost every weekend, which means there are plenty of alternatives. As awesome as the SS series was last year, its just not the best deal at those prices.
I agree, $99 for saturday practice and a sunday race is ridiculous. I may go up to ride, but if they don't do something I doubt I'll be racing there this year.
OK, not to bag on pros here, but what about all the other people that make up the bulk of the race? People say they would have to payout higher, but that would only effect the pros. the other classes just get prizes, right? the races are what, 10% pro class and 90% others? Why cater to the 10% when its the 90% that makes it all possible?
Back in the war we had a word for people like you
irate2:
Yeah, I'm listening......Back in the war we had a word for people like you
70% why i go to a race event is to watch the pro riders!
I'm going up there for the first time to ride this summer though.
My .02
I'm going up there for the first time to ride this summer though.
My .02
I think they paid out in all classes except intro.
commiepinkosomthin
How many races do you do a year?
I do around 12.
So the pros are the most sure bet for attendence. Since I try to do so many races, I end up spending a lot of money on entrance fees and it only makes sense that I try to win back some of my entry fees. That helps me go to more races.
While I commend SS for having such a rich payout, it was also the most wack payout of any current race. I don't understand paying out experts, oldman experts, and women who don't have near the competition as the pro/open class does. If I was giving out money, I'd cut back the money per placing (slightly) and go a little deeper to help pay back some of the entry fees to the top ten in the pro/open class.
Doug
While I agree with you on principal, I found out really quickly when we were running races that you need to payout or have prizes for experts. I originally only wanted to pay out to pro as an incentive for racers to get their pro license. However, Experts make up more of the entries than any other class. They will get pissed if you don't have a payout for them when the pros are taking for cash than the total entry fee. This results in experts not showing up. What I did to resolve it was to lump pro and expert together for the prize money but seperate them for Norba points. The problem is if experts get upset and don't show up, there will be no prize money for pro either.
In addition, I thought breaking out the 40+ was a little wack too. I mean if your an expert then your an expert regardless of age. That said, the strategy worked in that it brought in more 40+ racers for every race.
To summarize, I think Snowshoe is putting the money where they think they need to in order to maximize profit. At the end of the day, money is what makes the world go round. If expert racers showed up to watch a bunch of regional and a couple of national level pros, then I am sure they would pay pro more.
Also, did anyone see the check that Chad Reed was holding for 3rd place at the St. Louis supercross last weekend? It was $1,500. Not very much considering they had the stadium sold out at over 70,000 people and have sold national TV coverage.
While I agree with you on principal, I found out really quickly when we were running races that you need to payout or have prizes for experts. I originally only wanted to pay out to pro as an incentive for racers to get their pro license. However, Experts make up more of the entries than any other class. They will get pissed if you don't have a payout for them when the pros are taking for cash than the total entry fee. This results in experts not showing up. What I did to resolve it was to lump pro and expert together for the prize money but seperate them for Norba points. The problem is if experts get upset and don't show up, there will be no prize money for pro either.
In addition, I thought breaking out the 40+ was a little wack too. I mean if your an expert then your an expert regardless of age. That said, the strategy worked in that it brought in more 40+ racers for every race.
To summarize, I think Snowshoe is putting the money where they think they need to in order to maximize profit. At the end of the day, money is what makes the world go round. If expert racers showed up to watch a bunch of regional and a couple of national level pros, then I am sure they would pay pro more.
Also, did anyone see the check that Chad Reed was holding for 3rd place at the St. Louis supercross last weekend? It was $1,500. Not very much considering they had the stadium sold out at over 70,000 people and have sold national TV coverage.
Go to a 5k road race and hold your hand out for money.
Go to a Pro Cycling road race and hold your hand out in amatuer classes for money.
Cash money in anything other than pro or open (whatever you call the class) is STUPID! It's a waste of a promoter's time.
Cash at mountain bike races for any other class than the top is this long standing weakness we all have. It goes back to us being such whiny, griping, picky little biotches.
No other sport do you show up and expect money for being old and slower than a pro!!!
Go to a Pro Cycling road race and hold your hand out in amatuer classes for money.
Cash money in anything other than pro or open (whatever you call the class) is STUPID! It's a waste of a promoter's time.
Cash at mountain bike races for any other class than the top is this long standing weakness we all have. It goes back to us being such whiny, griping, picky little biotches.
No other sport do you show up and expect money for being old and slower than a pro!!!
That was just the Whole Shot Award. Not bad for being the first to cross the line.
Well when you guys were amatures did you want $$ or tires? Be real everyone wants $$$ so I say pay the $$ to all the classes. I know I will never get it.If you are compareing running race to MTB races then give us the tee shirts for free(goodie bag) no extra cost.If you want to bring up road race then mtb races should be $15-$30 Thats all my wife pays for to run a marathon,5k, 10k or what ever.they use timing equipment better then the mt bike ones, give t-shirts and goodie bag as part of the entry fee.
I'm not trying to slam on you brother...but you're talking out of your arse. You have NO idea how much it costs to put on a race. You apparently have never raised money for a raise. You maybe at most have volunteered at a 2 day event to get free entry?
You want some math. Here.
Entry fee $45.00
Riders - 150
Total Income - $6750.00
Expenses - Top 5 - $500.00, $400.00, $300.00, $200.00, $100.00
Total Cash purse - $1500.00
Timing Equipment - $500.00 pays the timer and the start guy.
Cutting the lift on - $5000.00!!! That's right...first crank of a dead lift in summer...just to put it on the power company's allotment for the month.
So bright boy...why don't you just show me where I'm gonna pay your recreational butt some cash for coming to an event I put on...for YOU!
Keep in mind, the above #'s are assuming I was lucky to find some company stupid enough to pay for all of my supplies through branding. Things like:
Course marking tape
Number plates
Registration Materials
Marketing Flyers
Printed materials
Pens
Clipboards
Zip ties
Clothes pins
Spray Paint
Cash box
PA System
Oh...and lets not forget...dozens of people just lining up willing to donate and entire Saturday doing registration, filing results and standing course side alone in the woods calling out "Rider Up!".
All for you buddy....alll for you...
Butch
Read what I wrote. Cash payouts is a marketing tool.
Read what I wrote. Cash payouts is a marketing tool.
Im in the boat with a lot of other guys. Unless the price is cut drastically then they have lost my race participation. I barely have enough money to keep my bike operating, let alone have enough extra cash to get to the races...
What price would be fair to both sides? The $45 from last year was definatly low and the $95 proposed this year is high. How much would you spend on a race?
For me personally, no more than $65.
That is taking into consideration how long it takes me to get up there and all the other costs associated with it.
Thats kinda what I was thinking. Not a huge jump from last year and it keeps it in the same range as other races.
I could be wrong, but I dont think for a second that SS is going to ignore what everyone is saying and keep it around $100. Anybody want to start a side bet on what the final result will be?
I'm assuming they're more like "Hey...you think they'll pay it? Well..let's see. If they say yes...we'll charge it."
But honestly...who would want to pay $100.00 when they could go bang out runs on Dominion to Alpine for 48 hours....?
Chris,
They could cut back some of the pro woman money and a little off the pro men money and pay a little deeper. $1200 for first was insane and it really didn't do anything to draw big time pros. It may have pulled Bosch to the 3rd race, but other than that the regulars who were going to show, showed anyway. If you cut it back to even $800 SS would still be paying more than any other race in the country.
Butch, you need to get out more. I used to help a buddy run his race car at the local track. He always won his entry fee back.
I think $45 was about spot on for an entry fee. I just don't see me paying $65 three times for the series only to see so much money spread so thin. Its kind of frustrating to see so many others who had weaker competitive classes take home money, when I top tened every race in the pro class.
They could cut back some of the pro woman money and a little off the pro men money and pay a little deeper. $1200 for first was insane and it really didn't do anything to draw big time pros. It may have pulled Bosch to the 3rd race, but other than that the regulars who were going to show, showed anyway. If you cut it back to even $800 SS would still be paying more than any other race in the country.
Butch, you need to get out more. I used to help a buddy run his race car at the local track. He always won his entry fee back.
I think $45 was about spot on for an entry fee. I just don't see me paying $65 three times for the series only to see so much money spread so thin. Its kind of frustrating to see so many others who had weaker competitive classes take home money, when I top tened every race in the pro class.
this thread has morphed into a conversation(s) about payouts.
one thing to keep in mind is that you don't get the $$$.
you get a tax form to fill out, and the opportunity to wait forever on the check to show up in the mail.
cash back on the spot helps to immediately defray the cost of the trip.
at the price their talking about charging us to ride there.
i think i'll give THEM the 1099 form and tell them to fill it out and i'll send them the check when the paperwork comes through.
one thing to keep in mind is that you don't get the $$$.
you get a tax form to fill out, and the opportunity to wait forever on the check to show up in the mail.
cash back on the spot helps to immediately defray the cost of the trip.
at the price their talking about charging us to ride there.
i think i'll give THEM the 1099 form and tell them to fill it out and i'll send them the check when the paperwork comes through.
Its kind of frustrating to see so many others who had weaker competitive classes take home money, when I top tened every race in the pro class.
frustrating to see raphel and gallie sand baggin in there classes and taken all kinds of money out of that place
Doug
Yes, they could redistribute the payout and it would probably make sense. I can see where it would make sense to pay out deeper.
What do you think about guys in the "Am" class with faster times than the "pro" class. Would you have a problem with the am guys getting a peice of the pro payout?
Personally, I would trade no expert prize money for a lower entry fee. The guys taking home the Am prize money were plenty fast to race in the pro class for cash.
Yes, they could redistribute the payout and it would probably make sense. I can see where it would make sense to pay out deeper.
What do you think about guys in the "Am" class with faster times than the "pro" class. Would you have a problem with the am guys getting a peice of the pro payout?
Personally, I would trade no expert prize money for a lower entry fee. The guys taking home the Am prize money were plenty fast to race in the pro class for cash.
Doug
To that point if you want it fixxed, sign up for Am class at Snowshoe and take the $$$. They have zero rules dictating classes. I'm signing up for womens class since they don't have any rule preventing it.
Except for the US Open. Sam Hill dares you try to take his cash.
$5K is some incentive to train hard this spring. You were not that far off last year, correct? Pull 10% off and you into the cash.
soooooooooo can anyone direct me to a race schedule ?