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So.. Aaron Gwin and the dh/mx crossover..

shagwell

Monkey
Jun 15, 2004
144
0
Okay so here's something I've been thinking about this year as the world cup season unfolded.. Aaron Gwin quits mx turns up to his first world cup race 3 years ago and gets in the top ten straight off the bat, fast forward to this year and he has pretty much made a mockery of the rest of the guys who have been doing it for years.

Now as I understand it Gwin was at the top level of amateur motocross when he quit, perhaps just about to start trying to make it in the big time. Obviously there is a lot more strength and depth in the mx race scene than dh given it is a much more high profile sport, but I got to thinking this year if a guy who hadnt even proved himself anywhere near the top level of mx can come in and wipe the floor with pretty much everyone in a VERY short space of time does that mean there is nowhere near as much talent in the dh scene as we would like to think?

So as the season goes on I'm thinking this is really just taking the piss out of our sport but then I think look at Palmer, that guy had been at the top of several sports and even made a supercross main which I imagine Gwin was way off doing in his mx career and yet for all the hype Palmer had very limited success in dh and in no way came anywhere near to dominating like Gwin has.

So how much of a link is there between succes in the two sports and is our sport a lot weaker in the depth of of talent than mx, or was Gwin just more suited to dh?? And why?

Its a pointless discussion I know that noone can ever truly answer, but its interesting nonetheless!
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
Watch Romanics, Erzberg Enduro, or Last man standing. It makes DH races look like the special olympics. Basically, the bikes are twice as big, the features are twice as big, the speeds are twice as high, and the races aren't 5 minutes, they're 5 hours, and the guys throw 250lb bikes around like they are carbon bmx race bikes. So ya...its no surprise a moto guy has an edge.
 
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WBC

Monkey
Aug 8, 2003
578
1
PNW
As simple as this might be, I also think there's something to be said for doing something new and fresh and really having fun at it. If you're having fun, you're going to be better at what you're doing. On the contrary, if you're beating your head against the wall trying to progress in a sport, you're going to be discouraged, not have fun, and not do as well. I can tell you that when I do other sports now, I learn so much faster than when I was starting mountainbiking.

If you french fry when you're supposed to pizza, you're gonna have a bad time!

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/153300/thumper-the-super-cool-ski-instructor
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
First I remember himself claiming that DH suits him better than MX. He is also a very dedicated rider. No drinking, heavy on training. That plus the fact that he also has sterng bmx background.
The any good mx rider could kill it in dh notion is silly. With no bike background that wont happen and many of the top dh pros ride mx and trial. Using that logic the best way to be a good slopestyle rider is to be a dh pro since McCaul and Lacondeguy were racers.
 

Bikael Molton

goofy for life
Jun 9, 2003
4,010
1,146
El Lay
It's my understanding that many top moto enduro racers use XC and trail mountain bikes for fitness training as well. At an enduro national I went to last year, I saw a lot of Stumpjumpers and Spec Enduros in the pits.

I'm not sure if MX/SX racers do this as well.
 

karpi

Monkey
Apr 17, 2006
904
0
Santiasco, Chile
When comparing Gwin to Palmer, I would have to say Gwin is much more of a profesional, the time and dedication plus focus shows.

I think riding mx helps your DH skills a lot, but its not necesarily gonna make you a better rider over someone that doesnt ride. Whats more, a lot of guys who used to race DH here have crossed over to MX and are leading their categories (inverse to say Gwin).
 

ZenkiGarage

Monkey
Jan 9, 2007
341
0
Portland, Or
I've raced MX my whole life(retired about 4 yrs ago). I even had a short stint at the pro level. Did those skills help me when transitioning to DH, yes. Did it make me awesome at DH? Not even close. Some of the skills transition, but its a whole different ball game. Apples to Oranges. Gwin found his niche, and is killing it.
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
There's a reason most top DH riders don't ride a whole of lot of DH to train and stick to either road/xc and moto (plus weight lifting, etc. of course). It's way to difficult to get used to the speeds you need to be at without riding a moto.
 

92SE-R

piston slapper
Feb 5, 2004
272
13
San Diego, CA
what about that enduro champ that has been completely dominant in the sport of enduro, but lost to gee at fort william? i wish they wouldve put him on a dh bike and saw how he wouldve done.
 

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
There's a reason most top DH riders don't ride a whole of lot of DH to train and stick to either road/xc and moto (plus weight lifting, etc. of course). It's way to difficult to get used to the speeds you need to be at without riding a moto.
You can't get used to the speed of DH by riding DH a lot? :thumb:

I do know what you mean though. If you're used to shredding at 50mph on a moto then DH must suddenly seem pretty sedate. Like if you drive at 120mph on the highway, when you slow down to 100 it feels like nothing!
 

ekimox

Monkey
Jun 17, 2009
102
0
Don't forget that Gwin was also a ripper on a BMX as a kid as well. The combo of a strong BMX and MX backround may be the perfect base for killing it at DH.
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
You can't get used to the speed of DH by riding DH a lot? :thumb:

I do know what you mean though. If you're used to shredding at 50mph on a moto then DH must suddenly seem pretty sedate. Like if you drive at 120mph on the highway, when you slow down to 100 it feels like nothing!
Bingo, plus 99% of WC DH riders don't have a WC track nearby to train on. Moto makes it easier.
 

I.van

Monkey
Apr 15, 2007
188
0
Australia
It's obvious that he trains hard, and his commitment is above everyone else's. As a natural athlete, he probably could've excelled at many sports.

MX is great training for DH, but that doesn't mean that any top MX guy can enter into a DH WC and beat the status quo.
 

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
494
Im over here now
if MX helps a rider on the WC DH circuit, Elliot Jackson should be making more headlines soon.

and Palmer actually made a SX main??
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
When comparing Gwin to Palmer, I would have to say Gwin is much more of a profesional, the time and dedication plus focus shows.
Don't make the mistake of thinking Palmer wasn't an extremely driven trainer. That guy busted his ass to prepare for WC seasons. He just liked to pretend that he didn't. I'd be surprised if Rock Jesus really put that much more effort and focus into winning than Palmer. Of course the whole field of sports science is such a different beast now though...
 

JCL

Monkey
Aug 31, 2008
696
0
He's talented, dedicated and has the right outlook on competition (possibly thanks to jesus?).

I'm sure he won't have it so easy next year and the year after that Brosnan will be kicking everyones ass all over the mountain.
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
if MX helps a rider on the WC DH circuit, Elliot Jackson should be making more headlines soon.
I bet he will. 21 years old and his first full year on the circuit getting top 30 at one of the hardest tracks ever without full factor support? That's pretty damn good IMO. He's had a little bad luck too with flats and crashes. I doubt race results do his bike riding abilities justice.
 

sethimus

neu bizutch
Feb 5, 2006
4,881
2,132
not in Whistler anymore :/
Your both idiots.
why? see, i don't believe in this bogus stuff AT ALL, so it still amazes me when athletes thank their god for a win. why should he has let them win? are they better believers then the others? do they prey more? as far as i'm informed, the christian god loves his childredn all the same, as long as they believe, so why should he choose one particular guy over his other sheeps? plz explain, i need to know...
 

shagwell

Monkey
Jun 15, 2004
144
0
Watch Romanics, Erzberg Enduro, or Last man standing. It makes DH races look like the special olympics. Basically, the bikes are twice as big, the features are twice as big, the speeds are twice as high, and the races aren't 5 minutes, they're 5 hours, and the guys throw 250lb bikes around like they are carbon bmx race bikes. So ya...its no surprise a moto guy has an edge.
But that was my point with Palmer, if what youre saying is true, then Palmer should've cleaned up in DH aswell, and thats what I felt was interesting, as I said in the original post because at first I just felt like a guy who hadnt done anything special in MX doing what he's done in DH was kinda taking the piss out of the sport a bit, but I guess theres more to it than that.

I think the comment that DH probably suits Gwin better makes sense, especially if he has a BMX background aswell as the MX.
 
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shagwell

Monkey
Jun 15, 2004
144
0
if MX helps a rider on the WC DH circuit, Elliot Jackson should be making more headlines soon.
And just to be clear I'm not wondering whether MX helps in DH, I think the answer to that is pretty clear. More whether if another 10 average (in relative terms!) MXers crossed over into DH they would do the same as Gwin.

The more I think about it the more I think that they wouldnt.
 

Kevin

Turbo Monkey
Ricky Carmichael can ride a DH bike faster then the speed of light ( 1.6x faster then Danny Hart on signature tires) therefore destroying Einsteins theory of relativity.
Rumor has it that RC has now solved the EPR paradox claiming that electrons in a state of superposition all ride a Giant Glory with 65 degree HA in a rain so heavy that its shields it from the macroscopic world and can ignore its laws of physics.

 
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WParsons

Chimp
Mar 19, 2011
71
0
Does anyone remember when Minnaar raced the Roof of Africa? That's one gnarly race.

I used to race DH, now I race enduros and hare scrambles. I think the latter is much better for your mountain bike skills than motocross is. After all you are riding trails in enduro racing.

Dirtbike riding/racing is generally very similar to mountain biking, its just that everything is amplified. Going from riding trails on a dirtbike to riding trails on a mtb, everything seems like its in slow motion. The bike is much bigger, the suspension is much longer and able to handle huge hits, the speeds are much greater, slowing down takes longer, and you're able to ride for hours non stop. That's the best thing I like about it, you can ride gnarly trails for hours, not minutes. That takes a huge amount of conditioning.

I have only ridden my mtb a few times this year, but I've done a bunch of moto racing and riding instead. When I get out for an XC ride, I notice that my cardio isn't the best but my legs are strong. When you're constantly standing and working a 230lb bike you get strong legs that's for sure.
 

stiksandstones

Turbo Monkey
May 21, 2002
5,078
25
Orange, Ca
The OP said Gwin was a top level amateur mx racer? Did he ever win mammoth, lorettas, mini-o's, lake Whitney?

Reminds me of the days when Tomac came on the circuit (yes, I'm that old) and all the media called him a 'bmx champion' and he was never all that in bmx (this coming from the worlds biggest Johnny T fan).

Or when people claimed mcgraths skills were derived from ' bmx racing'.

Point is...gwins success is natural talent and dedication, not from riding a mx bike or bmx bike or bibles.
 

LukeD

Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
751
2
Massachusetts
The OP said Gwin was a top level amateur mx racer? Did he ever win mammoth, lorettas, mini-o's, lake Whitney?

Reminds me of the days when Tomac came on the circuit (yes, I'm that old) and all the media called him a 'bmx champion' and he was never all that in bmx (this coming from the worlds biggest Johnny T fan).

Or when people claimed mcgraths skills were derived from ' bmx racing'.

Point is...gwins success is natural talent and dedication, not from riding a mx bike or bmx bike or bibles.
can I "like" this post?
 

p-spec

Turbo Monkey
May 2, 2004
1,278
1
quebec
if that's not true, why do all the jesus freaks thank him for a win?
because they are idiots who beleive things,if jesus was rlly there,he wouldn't of been shut down at worlds,wich I was happy to see,get him off his high horse.

The competition is hungry and pissed I know I would be.

And maybe with a futur roster of non injured guys.Things change.
 

doc gravity

Monkey
Oct 25, 2004
152
0
highlands ranch, CO
The OP said Gwin was a top level amateur mx racer? Did he ever win mammoth, lorettas, mini-o's, lake Whitney?

Reminds me of the days when Tomac came on the circuit (yes, I'm that old) and all the media called him a 'bmx champion' and he was never all that in bmx (this coming from the worlds biggest Johnny T fan).

Or when people claimed mcgraths skills were derived from ' bmx racing'.

Point is...gwins success is natural talent and dedication, not from riding a mx bike or bmx bike or bibles.
Pinkbike interview:

"When I was 14 I got a KX125 and we started taking my racing pretty serious. All my goals and focus went towards making a career out of motocross racing. By the time I was 16 I was right at the point where we were getting ready to make the jump to the pro class and hopefully start getting some solid factory support."


The step up to the Pro Class is a big move. It sounds like you had the speed, but things don't always go quite as planned...

"Things were going really good, but then the injuries came. It was crazy how it worked out, but for the next two years I never rode the bike for more than a month without getting hurt again. It was just back to back injuries - broken bones, surgeries, concussions, the whole deal... It was always something. I think it was around March 2005 that I was out riding with my trainer one day at Lake Elsinore and after doing about 5 warm up laps, I came in and told him I was done. It wasn't fun anymore, I felt like all the work I was putting in was going nowhere and I let the pressure of results take away the real reason I started riding in the first place, to have fun. So anyways, long story short, that was the end of motocross for me, but and at the end of 2008 I discovered mountain bikes."

The rest has been a combination of a good plan, hard work, and a lot of talent
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,740
470
Does anyone remember when Minnaar raced the Roof of Africa? That's one gnarly race.

I used to race DH, now I race enduros and hare scrambles. I think the latter is much better for your mountain bike skills than motocross is. After all you are riding trails in enduro racing.

Dirtbike riding/racing is generally very similar to mountain biking, its just that everything is amplified. Going from riding trails on a dirtbike to riding trails on a mtb, everything seems like its in slow motion. The bike is much bigger, the suspension is much longer and able to handle huge hits, the speeds are much greater, slowing down takes longer, and you're able to ride for hours non stop. That's the best thing I like about it, you can ride gnarly trails for hours, not minutes. That takes a huge amount of conditioning.

I have only ridden my mtb a few times this year, but I've done a bunch of moto racing and riding instead. When I get out for an XC ride, I notice that my cardio isn't the best but my legs are strong. When you're constantly standing and working a 230lb bike you get strong legs that's for sure.
I have a somewhat loose goal to do Erzberg, Romaniacs or RoA sometime in the next few years. For the above stated reasons. Just probably very very expensive for an event like that overseas.