[DHperu]

Sorry guys but i gotta vent this out somewhere, Last year i bought a Commencal Supreme DH frame, it came in a but ugly green which i decided to change to white, stripped the paint, and painted the frame white with a clear coat, no heat treatment or anything. Since then i only rode a month at whistler and didn't touch the bike for 6 months.

i realized it has a crack in the headtube/downtube weld, a known failure in 2009 models and BTI doesn't want to warantee it. Painting a frame doesn't compromise its strength at all...we're talking about $3300 here and now i dont want to ride the frame because obviously its not safe to ride on.

i'm pissed to say the least.

 

[4130biker]

On one hand, I agree with you that it sucks. On the other hand, it's kind of one of those things that voids warranites, wether it actually makes sense or not. Maybe if you pull this thread, and email Commencal and explain your case they could help you out? Or maybe try through a different supplier (if there is one).

 

[dhr-racer]

not to be a dick man but thats how how it works man, most manufactures dont warranty altered frames and that includes paint unless it is done by them, usually why they have programs for this reason. if you check out the commencal warranty it covers this and says if you modify the frame it can void your warrenty

"The frame or the components of the bicycle have been altered (e.g. polished, scoured, sandpapered, cold hammered, shot blasted, pumiced, ground, metal brushed, filed, soldered, brazed, pierced, anodized or chromed, structurally or mechanically altered or added to, etc). Please note that internal corrosion of chromo-steel frames is not covered by the warranty."

check page 3 http://www.commencal.com/news/bicycles/warranty/warranty_en.pdf

this is stuff you should be checking into before you go doing stuff like mods and paint for a frame under warranty.

 

[IH8Rice]

most warranties specifically state that no "modifications" can be made to a frame...including painting it

 

[DHperu]

unfortunatly BTI is the sole supplier for USA, i bought the frame in the U.S. i'm pissed because its a KNOWN FAILURE in 2009 Commencal's and just because it's painted they wont warantee it. i love the bike, its seriously the best frame ive ever ridden, but shelling out that kind of cash and not getting support for a bike thats hardly been ridden??? not really the best way to keep a customer happy.

a friend of mine who has a bike shop and works with BTI emailed the Commencal Brand Manager and gave him that answer.

 

[Kanye West]

If it's a known problem, then a using a LEGITIMATE PC or paint job to deny a warranty claim is a cheap cop-out.

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

This is why I never re-finish a frame until it's past warranty. I get the frame I want, but if it comes in a crappy color, I deal with it.

I'm pretty anal about how my gear looks, but I still don't pray to the fashionistas when I'm riding...

 

[toodles]

Do you guys have decent frame repairers over there? If you're getting screwed on warranty, it'd be cheaper to fix than replace.

Pity about the warranty though. The old paint must have been load-bearing or something.

 

[Mr Lahey]

If I was in their shoes I wouldn't question replacing it or offering some sort of trade in deal. I would not want to hear from an attorney after a denied warranty claim resulted in an injury from a sheared head tube.

 

[dilzy]

not to be a dick man but thats how how it works man, most manufactures dont warranty altered frames and that includes paint unless it is done by them, usually why they have programs for this reason. if you check out the commencal warranty it covers this and says if you modify the frame it can void your warrenty

"The frame or the components of the bicycle have been altered (e.g. polished, scoured, sandpapered, cold hammered, shot blasted, pumiced, ground, metal brushed, filed, soldered, brazed, pierced, anodized or chromed, structurally or mechanically altered or added to, etc). Please note that internal corrosion of chromo-steel frames is not covered by the warranty."

check page 3 http://www.commencal.com/news/bicycles/warranty/warranty_en.pdf

this is stuff you should be checking into before you go doing stuff like mods and paint for a frame under warranty.

That list doesn't include chemical strip and painting, something to think about. Use their warranty against them, if it isn't explicitly in words, then they have no right to refuse your claim.

Got any mates who are lawyers?

 

[Arkayne]

That list doesn't include chemical strip and painting, something to think about. Use their warranty against them, if it isn't explicitly in words, then they have no right to refuse your claim.

Got any mates who are lawyers?

That's where the etc comes in.

"The frame or the components of the bicycle have been altered (e.g. polished, scoured, sandpapered, cold hammered, shot blasted, pumiced, ground, metal brushed, filed, soldered, brazed, pierced, anodized or chromed, structurally or mechanically altered or added to, etc). Please note that internal corrosion of chromo-steel frames is not covered by the warranty."

 

[DHperu]

i've been offered a crash replacement at "store cost", but have not been given the price. i still believe the frame should be replaced, its a known issue. from what i read in the Commencal owners club forum, the frame supplier they chose to go with for 2009 were crap and since then has been changed for 2010 because of all the frames that cracked, not just Supreme DH's

 

[dilzy]

That's where the etc comes in.

"The frame or the components of the bicycle have been altered (e.g. polished, scoured, sandpapered, cold hammered, shot blasted, pumiced, ground, metal brushed, filed, soldered, brazed, pierced, anodized or chromed, structurally or mechanically altered or added to, etc). Please note that internal corrosion of chromo-steel frames is not covered by the warranty."

ect means nothing in court. I still think a firm letter from a lawyer would be plenty sufficient.

 

[gemini2k]

ect means nothing in court. I still think a firm letter from a lawyer would be plenty sufficient.

Bingo, a nice letter with a lawyer's letterhead from a family friend (every family has a friend who's a lawyer I hope) might do the trick. Either way, that's a pretty f-ing lame warranty denial. I guess that's why you don't buy from European mfg and try to deal with them and their distributors.

I can't believe anyone rides commencal anymore. The only people I've known who have had one have cracked them fairly quickly (and then one of them rode it at whistler and mammoth for 9 months with a cracked headtube, smart guy)

 

[dropmachine]

Well, you're kind of at fault here. One for not realizing that painting the bike would void your warranty, and two for doing something that voids a warranty on a Crackencal. Those bikes are apparently the new Cannondale, and seem to crack if you fart in the same room they're in. Maybe its not cracking, its surrendering. Its french ya know.

That said, Commencal knows they build cracking bikes, and should take care of you. Using the paint issue is a cop out, especially after 6 months. If you can prove you used something approved to strip the frame (not toxic waste, for example) then they should back you up. Clearly the paint didn't make them build a ****ty frame.

Dealers cost replacement is horse**** too. They make full pop to weasle out of something they should be taking care of.

Get your replacement, and sell the frame to somebody that doesn't ride to avoid cracking.

 

[thom9719]

People are so ass backwards on warrenties in the bike industry.

Warrenty is an issue stricktly for replacement due to manufacturing error. You altered the frame, and it cracked. Therefore, you've broken the "warrenty agreement" They have no responsibilty to replace your frame.

It sucks, yes. But you decided to do that, not them.

-KT

 

[Steve M]

People are so ass backwards on warrenties in the bike industry.

Warrenty is an issue stricktly for replacement due to manufacturing error. You altered the frame, and it cracked. Therefore, you've broken the "warrenty agreement" They have no responsibilty to replace your frame.

It sucks, yes. But you decided to do that, not them.

-KT

The idea of a warranty is that if a product becomes unusable for its advertised and claimed use, the manufacturer fixes the problem. Fine print or not, denying warranty based on a paintjob that hasn't contributed to the problem is BS. It's like someone drilling out their dropouts to save weight then having the headtube crack, and then having the company deny warranty on the headtube due to the completely unrelated modification.

 

[blue]

PM sent with some info.

I'd repair it and ride it. Even dealer cost isn't worth it...BTI probably won't budge - they could give a fvck less what a consumer thought.

 

[thom9719]

The idea of a warranty is that if a product becomes unusable for its advertised and claimed use, the manufacturer fixes the problem. Fine print or not, denying warranty based on a paintjob that hasn't contributed to the problem is BS. It's like someone drilling out their dropouts to save weight then having the headtube crack, and then having the company deny warranty on the headtube due to the completely unrelated modification.

While it is a dumb reasoning, there has to be a point where the company draws the line. They've listed their reasons for not warrenting something, the OP didn't abide by those reasons. Therefore, it is not Commencals duty to replace the broken frame.

The OP never listed how the paint was removed. Sandblasting, stripping and grinding can all have damaging effect to a thin aluminum frame (especially if performed improperly) which is why the company's prohibit that procedure in their warrenties.

-KT

 

[dhr-racer]

While it is a dumb reasoning, there has to be a point where the company draws the line. They've listed their reasons for not warrenting something, the OP didn't abide by those reasons. Therefore, it is not Commencals duty to replace the broken frame.

The OP never listed how the paint was removed. Sandblasting, stripping and grinding can all have damaging effect to a thin aluminum frame (especially if performed improperly) which is why the company's prohibit that procedure in their warrenties.

-KT

agreed, we had a customer who painted his bmx. the companys warranty said in the book given to him painting voided the warranty. he cracked it and it was tough luck. if every shop and company had to warranty every claim that show up at the door then they would be bankrupt.

also your using a race frame at whistler......... thats like doing somersaults with a baby on your back, it might work out but most likely something going to give. From what ive seen whistler is a place where parts frames forks and shocks go to die in the local shops parts bin. go get a park frame like a Scott or a Kona and stop using race frames at bike parks trying to look cool since this is what happens

 

[Eastern States Cup]

contact FTW, I know for a fact he has repaired more than one commencal. Frank has the talent and the knowledge to make it better than new. You should also check the weld just under the shock in the rear triangle.

 

[Kanye West]

contact FTW, I know for a fact he has repaired more than one commencal. Frank has the talent and the knowledge to make it better than new. You should also check the weld just under the shock in the rear triangle.

Frank would be THE guy to call in that case. I know from personal experience that his frame modifications will be stronger than stock.

He is particularly receptive to dark craft brews btw.

www.frankthewelder.com

 

[bullcrew]

well, you're kind of at fault here. One for not realizing that painting the bike would void your warranty, and two for doing something that voids a warranty on a crackencal. Those bikes are apparently the new cannondale, and seem to crack if you fart in the same room they're in. maybe its not cracking, its surrendering. Its french ya know.

That said, commencal knows they build cracking bikes, and should take care of you. Using the paint issue is a cop out, especially after 6 months. If you can prove you used something approved to strip the frame (not toxic waste, for example) then they should back you up. Clearly the paint didn't make them build a ****ty frame.

Dealers cost replacement is horse**** too. They make full pop to weasle out of something they should be taking care of.

Get your replacement, and sell the frame to somebody that doesn't ride to avoid cracking.

lmao!!!!!!

 

[dropmachine]

The OP never listed how the paint was removed. Sandblasting, stripping and grinding can all have damaging effect to a thin aluminum frame (especially if performed improperly) which is why the company's prohibit that procedure in their warrenties.

-KT

Some of those points are very true, especially HOW the paint was removed. If it was chemical, or media stripping then denying the warranty is lame.

If it was sandblased, then I agree 100%

That said, Commencals are pigs. The only thing thin on them is the stickers.

 

[Kanye West]

That said, Commencals are pigs. The only thing thin on them is the stickers.

It seems like they're pretty fragile for being such "traditionally built" frames...

 

[Uncle Cliffy]

go get a park frame like a Scott

Ha! Talk about cracking... I've seen NUMEROUS Scott frames that finally ended up in your hand full of suds.

 

[sbabuser]

Maybe its not cracking, its surrendering. Its french ya know.

Post of the year!

 

[Eastern States Cup]

It seems like they're pretty fragile for being such "traditionally built" frames...

crappy welds

 

[DHperu]

The frame was not sandblasted at all, they actually painted ontop of the original paint then i stuck stickers ontop! and for those who have seen a commencal, they use VERY thick tubing, reason for why they are so heavy. I've since sent an email to the Commencal Brand Manager at BTI pleading my case, have my fingers crossed he reconsiders. I really cant afford another 3Grand frame

wish me luck.

 

[Kanye West]

Always thought the welds seemed kinda inconsistent from frame to frame with those.

Bug Commencal directly. $3k of hard earned money into a manufacturer who wont stand behind their products with a known failure point isn't acceptable. Ask them to evaluate the frame and the paint job themselves before making a substantiated decision. Or, ask them if there is a non-critical part of the front triangle you could sand down to expose the different layers of paint to photograph for them. If the stock paint is still there and still visible, they'd be able to tell it wasn't sand blasted or stripped at all.

 

[jasonvelocity]

Here is a guy who broke his frame (his fault) and had it fixed: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=594415

Before you say the frame is cracked, you may want to remove the paint and check. From what I have heard (gotta love rumors), a bit of frame flex was causing a poor paint job to crack, giving the appearance of a cracked frame. Commencal changed painters for 2010, you might have too as well. Auto paint may look good, but I don't know how well it takes flexing.

 

[DHperu]

Yeah i also though about frame flex but havent wanted to strip the paint just yet, until i see what response i get from the Brand Manager. I´ve also emailed a contact that has been given to me directly at Commencal in Andorra, i speak spanish so i´ve written him a detailed email as well. hopefully someone can help me out.

in the end if no luck i´ll strip the paint, and consider the thought of getting the frame welded. anybody know what grade aluminium Commencal uses?

 

[Steve M]

While it is a dumb reasoning, there has to be a point where the company draws the line. They've listed their reasons for not warrenting something, the OP didn't abide by those reasons. Therefore, it is not Commencals duty to replace the broken frame.

The OP never listed how the paint was removed. Sandblasting, stripping and grinding can all have damaging effect to a thin aluminum frame (especially if performed improperly) which is why the company's prohibit that procedure in their warrenties.

-KT

He's since specified that it wasn't sandblasted or even stripped at all. Like I said, they might not be LEGALLY obliged to, but that's like saying "if you run a black saddle with this frame it voids the warranty" and then falling back on that when all your frames break just because almost all saddles are black and that's just what the warranty clause says. F**king lame regardless of who's legally in the right.

agreed, we had a customer who painted his bmx. the companys warranty said in the book given to him painting voided the warranty. he cracked it and it was tough luck. if every shop and company had to warranty every claim that show up at the door then they would be bankrupt.

also your using a race frame at whistler......... thats like doing somersaults with a baby on your back, it might work out but most likely something going to give. From what ive seen whistler is a place where parts frames forks and shocks go to die in the local shops parts bin. go get a park frame like a Scott or a Kona and stop using race frames at bike parks trying to look cool since this is what happens

Having worked for a company that specialised in frame repairs, modifications and repainting before, I'll agree that yes, if you sandblast the frame you can completely destroy it. It should be bead blasted or chemically stripped. However it's just a lame get-out-of-jail-free card for a company to fall back on if the frame hasn't actually been sandblasted.

As for the "Race frame at whistler" dismissal - dunno if you've noticed mate but they do have races here too, and the big ones they have are on the most destructive courses (Garbanzo DH, Canadian Open etc). If a "race frame" won't hold up on "race courses" then it's "pretty sh*t" in my books.

 

[Kanye West]

If a "race frame" won't hold up on "race courses" then it's "pretty sh*t" in my books.

That's pretty much it. DH racing is about the most abuse packed into the shortest amount of time on a bike. I don't get this "too fragile to be used outside of racing" crap.

 

[buckoW]

Ha! Talk about cracking... I've seen NUMEROUS Scott frames that finally ended up in your hand full of suds.

I think he is talking about the new ones like the Gambler and Voltage FR which are pretty solid.

 

[Commencal-guy]

Your fault... I cracked my 2008 Supreme DH and BTI replaced the frame with the new 2010 one without question.

 

[slowmtb]

Your fault... I cracked my 2008 Supreme DH and BTI replaced the frame with the new 2010 one without question.

This man speaks the truth - next time buy something more mainstream.

Boutique brands are for the rich and famous with disposable incomes. Oh noez my frame broke, cheque book again pleeze James

 

[Steve M]

This man speaks the truth - next time buy something more mainstream.

Boutique brands are for the rich and famous with disposable incomes. Oh noez my frame broke, cheque book again pleeze James

Lame. Can't speak for everyone else but there's plenty of people out there (myself included) who have nice bikes because they've put every available cent towards it. I can speak from personal experience - it SUCKS when you've more or less dedicated your life to having a sick bike and riding it as much as you physically can, only to have it break through no real fault of your own. To not get any kind of backup from the manufacturer/distributor when it's clearly their fault not yours is just a kick in the teeth.

 

[ronan]

Get your replacement, and sell the frame to somebody that doesn't ride to avoid cracking.

2010s are sold

 

[FlipFantasia]

commencal's less than speedy response to legitimate warranty claims here in the sea to sky has pretty much destroyed their reputation for the foreseeable future....I've heard they're trying to make inroads again, but they need to do a lot of work to rebuild any trust in their brand in these parts. guess that doesn't really address the OP and repainting stuff, but I don't know anyone in the area that had one that didn't crack....damn shame, cause the meta 6 is an amazing riding bike....when it isn't cracked in a number of places....